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Old August 28, 2008, 02:59 PM   #26
fjk1911
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I am certain that I will have said "please put that weapon down and let us discuss this, kind sir" just before 470 grains enter said sir's vital organ cavity.
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:22 PM   #27
fastforty
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I realize that laws in some areas border on being insane (ummm, I'm in Kali, remember?), but in a true life or death situation that warranted defending oneself with lethal force there most likely wouldn't be time for a "warning". If there were time for a "warning", there wouldn't be an "imminent & immediate" threat, as most laws require to justify homicide (read: "You didn't *have* to shoot at that moment").
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:27 PM   #28
Brian Pfleuger
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No offense intended men. Just pointing out some data for the less inclined to study the laws in their areas.

Carry ON!
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:40 PM   #29
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My advice, take it for what it's worth as a LEO that gives commands daily, keep it short, well heard and to the point.

STOP
SHOW ME YOUR HANDS
TURN AROUND
GET ON YOUR KNEES

I think you get the point, or at least I hope you do. There is no room for confusion, unless you don't speak english. In that case I can give you those same commands in spanish, any other language I need a translator.

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Old August 28, 2008, 03:46 PM   #30
Nnobby45
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Farnam refers to such phrases as "can't help you", "can I help you sir?", "don't move, drop your weapon", etc, as canned phrases that we learn to use automatically. It's done by practicing, just like we practice shooting.

I think that bad language is typically a result of our own fear and anger (the two are related), and it's already been pointed out that it's not good to appear to be out of control.

Same goes for calling 911---don't act like you've lost it.

Everything we do becomes a matter of public record, and "don't move, drop your weapon" spoken loudly so that all eyes are on you and Bubba, may be as much (I'm not saying more) for the benefit of the record (like witnesses statements) as it is a warning to your assailant.

Doubt we'll ever be more scrutinized than in the aftermath of the type of encounter we all hope never happens.
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Old August 28, 2008, 03:54 PM   #31
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Citizens' arrests are a BAD idea. They can get you in all kinds of trouble later, ESPECIALLY if you use a gun. Remember: If you pull your gun, and you are not in fear for your life, it's called "assault with a deadly weapon." If you pull your gun and you ARE in fear for your life, you need to stop talking and start shooting!

Nothing says, "please cease and desist," quite like, "BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!..."
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:28 PM   #32
Glenn E. Meyer
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Finding a burglar in your living room with arms full of your DVD or china?

Is that a life and death shoot'em? One should consider that. You do have some time. While some folks will say "Castle" and blast him - think that is an always and useful response?

What's a true life and death situation? Is the world black and white?
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:29 PM   #33
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Not sure I would maintain this composure but my intended 911 statement would be along these lines... 911: "911 police fire or medical please?" Me:"i think you may want to send police and an ambulance." 911: "Sir what is your emergency? what has happened?" Me:"No rush, no emergency. An intruder has been shot and is not moving, He in xxxxxx room I am going to be UNARMED when the officer arrives. I am the resident along with wife and 2 young adult children... We are all okay and safe... see ya when ya get here... take ya'lls time, Bye... "
Click
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:31 PM   #34
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:35 PM   #35
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It don't matter if he has a roll of toilet paper in one hand and a feather in the other... in florida if a home is invaded by an intruder you can assume that since he is inside an occupied dwelling illegally he is capable of causing serious injury or death if given the chance. A crook that discovers he has been caught could drop those items and pounce in less time than I choose to offer. how fast can a deviant healthy young man cover 12-18 feet? Or draw on you?

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Old August 28, 2008, 04:40 PM   #36
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Finding a burglar in your living room with arms full of your DVD or china?

Is that a life and death shoot'em? One should consider that. You do have some time. While some folks will say "Castle" and blast him - think that is an always and useful response?
I, for one, will not kill for property. Regardless of whether the law allows it. Assuming your scenario, I would probably raise my gun and say "Stop Right There!" or something similar. If he stops - great, if he runs away - great. If he drops everything and heads my way, now he probably gets shot- especially if he's got a weapon.
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:48 PM   #37
David Armstrong
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Quote:
For him to run out means he MAY return, I would invoke my right to defend my family. No ifs ands or buts or warnings.
So, you think it is better to start a gunfight inside your house with your family present than have the BG leave without further difficulty??
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:50 PM   #38
Sparky33
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I guess this is one more reason I love living in Texas. A warning is not required if someone is invading my home. My main concern is protecting me and my soon-to-be wife. The only thing the poor soul is going see/hear is the light from my flashlight quickly followed by a loud bang (or two or three)
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Old August 28, 2008, 04:55 PM   #39
David Armstrong
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If he moves a muscle, I'll be justified in taking his life because he was
fairly warned.
As Glenn mentioned, Castle laws aside, in many places once the person is no longer a threat to you youare no longer authorized to use deadly force against him. ANd even if you are, I tend to fall back on "you shoot because you have too, not because you want too." Sorry folks, but shooting somebody and getting away with it is way too iffy to do it unless you absolutely have to, and even then the potential for major loss of resources on your part is huge. At the very least you have to plan on them shooting back at you. I know we all like to think that we are steely eyed dealers of death and will always slay the BG without danger to us becuase we are in the side of right, but in reality shooting people doesn't always work.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:08 PM   #40
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David, It is super smart to realize that once your perp has left he knows you own guns... They are a high ticket black market item... I know a "clean" (not reported stolen) mossberg 500 can bring $500 and a hi-cap handgun can bring a grand if also not reported stolen. Now the perp tries to burglarize when you ain't home but your child may be.
I see every burglar as a potential murderer and will treat any inside my home as such...
If any one thinks they can waltz in my home and rob me is either so stupid he can't know right from wrong or so brazen he knows but chooses wrong! In either case I cannot fathom handing out free passes...
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:24 PM   #41
WINSTON THE WOLF
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I guess I am selfish prick... I have no inclination to warn anyone. I am in my home and a person has entered into it thus I am scared that this brazen individual may cause harm to me and mine. For him to run out means he MAY return, I would invoke my right to defend my family. No ifs ands or buts or warnings. Giving a warning depletes a bit of my advantage as well.
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Hmmm I never thought about this. But I agree with you on this one. I guess if there was an intruder in my home. The click of the hammer being pulled back would be all the warning he would get.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:25 PM   #42
Brian Pfleuger
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The click of the hammer being pulled back would be all the warning he would get.

or the racking of a shotgun
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:27 PM   #43
Glenn E. Meyer
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Every one on the internet assume that their shots will kill the 'perp' dead and that will prevent pay back or law suites. What if he doesn't die. Going to shoot him in the head on the ground and defend that with the Castle doctrine? That will be a fine test case.

Well, maybe he is a gang member and many come to your house. Maybe his family will sue you as the forensics show that he wasn't a threat as he was just a drunk who wandered in.

And horrors, all you steely eyed dealers of death think you and your family will come out of a killing happy as clams.

Lots of research show that you may be psychologically and socially messed up. That's why lots of folks teach a challenge if possible.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:30 PM   #44
fjk1911
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In this house there would only be the click of the thumb safety on my 1911 or the click of the top mounted safety on my wife's and son's Mossy's.

No racking a slide or pump and no pulling a hammer back.

Tango Down it is.
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:30 PM   #45
hogdogs
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In my case he better have his super sonic ear buds installed as my Mossberg is fully loaded and my safety is real quiet...
serious as a heart attack... That is my goal. Do what I gotta do and call 911. This is a home invasion or robbery and not the time for chit chat.
Brent
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:34 PM   #46
hogdogs
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Glenn, He will be dead... I can't take my eyes off the thug to call 911 until he is no longer a threat and I am neither a battlefield surgeon nor mortician I am a simple guy and deciding threat or no threat is as easy as breathing or not breathing...
It is callous but thug life rules say things like live by the gun die by the gun.
Brent
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:36 PM   #47
WINSTON THE WOLF
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Quote:
David, It is super smart to realize that once your perp has left he knows you own guns... They are a high ticket black market item... I know a "clean" (not reported stolen) mossberg 500 can bring $500 and a hi-cap handgun can bring a grand if also not reported stolen. Now the perp tries to burglarize when you ain't home but your child may be.
I see every burglar as a potential murderer and will treat any inside my home as such...
If any one thinks they can waltz in my home and rob me is either so stupid he can't know right from wrong or so brazen he knows but chooses wrong! In either case I cannot fathom handing out free passes...
Brent
I sometimes worry if someone breaks in when I am away from my home. I have a big safe so they know something is valuable in there. But they also will see my best shot targets on the side of it. That gives them something to think about. "Do they feel lucky" When I come home and they are still there. Kind of like a beware of dog sign.........lol
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:42 PM   #48
hogdogs
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I permanently attached a bianchi leather holster to the front end of every motorcycle I rode... An empty pistol holster is a scary thing!
Brent
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:45 PM   #49
WINSTON THE WOLF
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I permanently attached a bianchi leather holster to the front end of every motorcycle I rode... An empty pistol holster is a scary thing!
Brent
yeah I hear you. I have a couple empty holsters on the safe. they don't know how many I have in the safe or have with me........
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:49 PM   #50
Deaf Smith
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If you have ever taken a class by Massad Ayoob you will find this issue well addressed. Another good class is one given by SouthNarc on this kind of subject.

Language that provolkes a violent response is not a good idea. Nether is talking to much (you don't need to 'read them their rights' or chit-chat.)

Your language should be in monosyllables. Sort and strait to the point.

If they have a weapon, shout for them to drop it. Not only is that telling them to drop the weapon, but anyone in earshot will hear that and know a weapon was being used.

Just say what is needed to be said and them keep your eyes open! Not only for the threat in front, but anyone to the sides or behind.
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