The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Gear and Accessories

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 25, 2008, 03:48 PM   #1
ShootingNut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,470
Laser Beam, Red or Green?

Never owned a Laser, thinking of the Crimson Trace LG660 for my M&P40.
Just started researching the subject, is Green preferable to a Red beam?
Only see Red offered by CT.
Any thoughts by those having experience with Laser Grips, will be most appreciated.
Regards,
SN
PS: Targets I use now, have a red bullseye. Thought maybe the red laser wouldn't even show well?
ShootingNut is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 04:03 PM   #2
MrNiceGuy
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2008
Posts: 919
A green laser has better overall visibility in daylight.
Crimson trace only offers red lasers but they make a great product.

For self defense and quick target acquisition, they are a great choice
MrNiceGuy is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 04:50 PM   #3
ShootingNut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,470
Just Wondering

Then maybe CT will offer Green. One thing for sure, if I buy Red today, within a week they will announce a Major Change to GREEN!
Thanks,
SN
ShootingNut is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 05:04 PM   #4
Jermtheory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2007
Posts: 1,283
i think the CT is bright enough for any practical purposes on a pistol.

even in the mid-day sun today(about as bright of conditions as you'll ever find),it was clearly visible to atleast 15 yards or so...didnt try it past that.

indoors(earlier,still at mid-day with plenty of light) it is extremely bright at 60'+.

at night i imagine it could be picked up at 100 yards or more.
Jermtheory is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 05:59 PM   #5
Recon7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2005
Posts: 707
The story I heard goes, the power level in lasers is regulated by law and green is more in the middle of the visible light spectrum and red is near the outside (just past that is infrared which the human eye can't see).

Though green is not brighter, it appears brighter by the human eye.
Recon7 is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 06:46 PM   #6
Jermtheory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2007
Posts: 1,283
sounds about right to me...

the Crimson Trace uses the most powerfull laser you can legally own.

so the green laser cant be more powerfull...just easier to see.
Jermtheory is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 07:16 PM   #7
CortJestir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 1,406
The beam of a green laser, itself, can also be seen in low light conditions - not just the green dot at point of impact. Kind of a cool effect, but may not be that "tactical" if that matters to you.

[edit] Forgot to say that every range and gun store I've been to so far has a neat little Crimson Trace demo/display. With two blue plastic fake guns, one a revolver and the other a semiautomatic, modeling the product. Always a hoot to play with them. I'd probably get one if I ever have the need.
__________________
"They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about..."
- Lord Hugh Percy, on the events of April 19, 1775
Do you know what you're about? Find out at an Appleseed near you.
CortJestir is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 09:54 PM   #8
jfrey123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2006
Location: Reno, NV.
Posts: 1,026
Quote:
One thing for sure, if I buy Red today, within a week they will announce a Major Change to GREEN!

Well.... Then hurry up and buy your red one so I can get the New and Improved green one!!
__________________
Rock out with your Glock out!
jfrey123 is offline  
Old August 25, 2008, 10:20 PM   #9
Jermtheory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2007
Posts: 1,283
did i say "100 yards or more at night"???

try several hundred yards(300...+)!

back to playing.
Jermtheory is offline  
Old August 26, 2008, 08:23 AM   #10
Syntax360
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 17, 2006
Location: Grand Prairie, TX
Posts: 694
I believe CT has spoke out against green lasers a few times, citing a negligible increase in visibility at the cost of a great deal of battery life. Take that with a huge grain of salt though - I'm shooting from the hip and it's been a long time since I researched it...
Syntax360 is offline  
Old August 26, 2008, 10:38 AM   #11
jfrey123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2006
Location: Reno, NV.
Posts: 1,026
Quote:
citing a negligible increase in visibility at the cost of a great deal of battery life.

The other argument I've seen against green lasers is similar, that they are just too danged bright. Allegedly, if you use one in a dark room and actually look where the dot points, it has a similar effect as to looking into a flash light. It will blind you temporarily and make you less effective in night light.

They are bright enough to be used in pure sun light at a decent range, so I'm inclined to believe it.
__________________
Rock out with your Glock out!
jfrey123 is offline  
Old August 26, 2008, 11:34 AM   #12
CortJestir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2008
Location: Southern CT
Posts: 1,406
I suppose the only argument for a green laser would be the potential of weaponizing the laser itself:

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...deoID=17690000

If you have a misfire, you can always the burn the crap out of the target or BG
__________________
"They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about..."
- Lord Hugh Percy, on the events of April 19, 1775
Do you know what you're about? Find out at an Appleseed near you.

Last edited by CortJestir; August 26, 2008 at 11:36 AM. Reason: Edited for better link
CortJestir is offline  
Old August 26, 2008, 01:07 PM   #13
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,295
lasers

I have the red type on my snubbie. It's all you need.
The big disadvantage to the green laser is at night, the situation where you cannot see your sights and need a laser. The green beam is quite visible - a line of light directly back to you.
Green lasers are most valuable as pointers. Astronomy is a hobby of mine and a green laser makes a marvelous pointer; the beam appears to travel right to whatever object in the sky it is pointed at.
Power: "the Crimson Trace uses the most powerfull laser you can legally own."
Maybe the most powerful that we are allowed to put on a firearm, perhaps, but lasers can be had up to 600mW if you so chose and have the $. The CT lasers are 5mW.
Pete

If you are curious see: http://www.techlasers.com/?gclid=COe...FQNfFQodUDkaZQ
darkgael is offline  
Old August 26, 2008, 01:59 PM   #14
Jermtheory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2007
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
Maybe the most powerful that we are allowed to put on a firearm, perhaps
that may be the case...

i'll have to check the exact quote i had seen later when i have time.
Jermtheory is offline  
Old August 28, 2008, 02:13 PM   #15
Jermtheory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2007
Posts: 1,283
Quote:
5mw peak, 633nm, class IIIa laser. Maximum output that federal law and technology allow.-Crimson Trace
__________________
I'm moving on.Too many fudds,fanboys,and general silliness.

It's been fun(in part).
Jermtheory is offline  
Old August 31, 2008, 06:08 AM   #16
ShootingNut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,470
Email from Crimson Trace

Received a reply to my question from CT, as follows;

Thank you for your inquiry regarding laser colors.

Laser "beam" output is available in a variety of wave lengths. The wavelength determines the color of the beam in the visible light spectrum. The color spectrum ranges from infrared at one end (above 800 nm) down through the visible light spectrum: red at 670 nm, orange at 635 nm, green at approximately 550nm to blue and finally ultraviolet.

The green lasers you are hearing about utilize a DOUBLER CHIP mounted in front of an infrared laser diode which cuts the wavelength in half in order to reach the green spectrum. The problem with these devices is that the DOUBLER CHIP operates at around 10% efficiency meaning that 10 times as much power is required in order to get an equal output beam. High power input means high heat, which is the primary enemy of laser diodes.

In a nut shell, I cannot confirm if Crimson Trace will choose to graduate to blue lasers nor can I provide a timeline for that transition if it should ever happen.

Please check out our website http://www.crimsontrace.com for all new information and updates regarding all of our Lasergrips.

Best regards,
ShootingNut is offline  
Old September 3, 2008, 08:38 PM   #17
darkgael
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2006
Location: Homes in Brooklyn, NY and in Pennsylvania.
Posts: 4,295
laser legality

I did some more research about this. CT is essentially correct about its claims as they use Class IIIa lasers which are limited by law to 5mw. They are not completely correct as one CAN own more powerful lasers legally.
Class IIIb lasers, up to 500mW, are also legal to own and use but that use is strictly limited.
Note: "There is a class of lasers, IIIa, which by law must be less than 5mW (of measured optical output, not electrical input). This class is legal to sell in the United States, and legal to operate outside in the United States (local or state exceptions may exist) provided you don't do anything stupid. Shining the laser at aircraft in flight, or moving cars, or other equally retarded acts can easily land you in prison for an extended time (and rightly so). Apparently a man who wanted to see if he could hit airplanes as they were landing was in fact successful. Thankfully, none of the pilots crashed, but the man was reported to have received a seven year prison sentence.
The next higher class, IIIb ranges from 5 to 500 mW. You can also legally purchase this class of laser in the United States. But there are restrictions on it's use, because these lasers are capable of permanently damaging vision. You can't use it in an environment where the beam could escape to the outside. To be explicit here, this means you can't legally use them outside. Now you may want to adopt a "no blood, no foul" attitude, and that's fine for you. But just know that if you ever make a mistake, or run into a narrow-minded individual, you don't have a legal leg to stand on - prepare for a good screwing."

http://hea-www.harvard.edu/~fine/opi...olt-6plus.html

In addition: "These Laser Pointers Are Too Wicked
Earlier this week, I began running an ad purchased by Wicked Lasers, a company that sells 15 to 300 milliwatt laser pointers with some pretty grandiose claims:

Used by the US Army! Slash, Cut Tape, Pop Balloons, Ignite Matches, Light Cigarettes, Sizzle Plastic, and Start Fires. Powered by a Sony diode.

Another blogger who runs their ads bought a laser and calls them insanely powerful:

Most laser pointers commercially available today top out at 5mW. The "Extreme Nexus" model that was sent to me rates at 95mW (they got some 300mW models, by the way). And let me tell you something, that's a difference that's really hard to miss. The laser is green, and is plainly visible without smoke, fog or dust, especially in dimmer settings. Not only that, but it actually burns. Yeah, the kind of burning that you can feel on your skin. And yes, it does light matches, it burns through dark plastic things and pretty much looks like a freaking light saber that extends for miles and miles into the sky.

I pulled the ad this morning after finding out more about the capabilities of these lasers, which I wrongly believed were comparable to toys, and their legal status for sale in the U.S.

A laser pointers guide published by the Food and Drug Administration states that pointers above 5 milliwatts only can be sold in the U.S. for commercial uses such as land surveying. They cannot be sold as amusement or pointing devices and are subject to seizure when imported into the country:

Irresponsible use of more powerful laser pointers poses a significant risk of injury to the people exposed. Persons who misuse or irresponsibly use lasers are open to personal liability and prosecution."
http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/n...ers-too-wicked

Needed to clear this up in my own head.
Pete
darkgael is offline  
Old September 3, 2008, 11:58 PM   #18
Jermtheory
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 20, 2007
Posts: 1,283
good stuff,thanks for sharing.
Jermtheory is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.09958 seconds with 7 queries