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Old August 20, 2008, 03:23 PM   #1
Saab1911
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Fearsome sound of a pump action shotgun being racked.

I've always heard that the mere sound of a pump action shotgun being racked
makes a perp #2 in his pants and generally incapable of doing you any harm.



So, then why does one need shots for the shotgun? Better yet, why can't
I just go to a gun store with a tape recorder and record the sound of a
pump action shotgun being racked and when there's a perp in my house
I can play back that fearsome sound from ten different speakers
all over the house. The perp will #1, #2 and run for the nearest exit thinking
that there are ten different shotguns in the house.

I know it's good marketing, but following the "logic" we've all been fed
too many times to count, no one needs to buy any more shotguns. All
we need are recordings of the pump action shotguns being racked.

Let's just debunk this bull right here. A perp that will grovel at the mere
sound of a shotgun being racked probably can be chased off by a poodle.

I personally would rather have a high powered semi-auto rifle myself, if
I'm trained on it. Otherwise, I would much rather defend myself with a
1911 or a revolver. Don't get me wrong. A shotgun in the right hands
can do a lot of damage, and a shotgun is a good choice for home defense.
But like any firearm, you need to know how to employ it effectively.
Otherwise, it's an expensive club.

Cheers,

Jae
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Old August 20, 2008, 03:30 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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Jae,

Sometimes the first "pump" doesn't get it done. Some perps are pretty tough, mentally I mean.


Sometimes it takes 4 maybe 5 pumps before.... Oh, crap... muh guns empty. Dang!
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Old August 20, 2008, 03:33 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peetza, no anchovies
Jae,

Sometimes the first "pump" doesn't get it done. Some perps are pretty tough, mentally I mean.

Sometimes it takes 4 maybe 5 pumps before.... Oh, crap... muh guns empty. Dang!
That's why I favor a recording of a pump action shotgun.
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Old August 20, 2008, 03:54 PM   #4
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I agree. That is high on my list of the one stupidest internet cliches going and everybody parrots it as though they know what they are talking about
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Old August 20, 2008, 03:55 PM   #5
Brian Pfleuger
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Seriously though, I can see an argument made for a situation where it could be handy. It would scare the #2 out of me but then again, I'm not inclined to prowl around in peoples houses. The sound of a 1911 being racked would scare me just as bad.
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Old August 20, 2008, 03:56 PM   #6
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id pump silently and let a muzzle stuck in their face scare em
my house isnt very big and im picking a shotgun up tmrw
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Old August 20, 2008, 04:04 PM   #7
Saab1911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth peetza
The sound of a 1911 being racked would scare me just as bad.
So would the sound of a revolver's hammer being cocked for me, but
I'm not a hardened criminal.

The idea that a sound, other than sound of actual firearm discharge, would
scare a hardened criminal silly is just ... well silly.

cheers,

jae
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Old August 20, 2008, 04:10 PM   #8
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Well, before the sound of the of a shotgun being pumped an intruder would hear the sound of the dog telling him he should change his plans. Were he foolish enough to further the intrusion, the next sound he'd hear would be that of his flesh being torn by the dog.
You can all say what you will about home defense, but nothing surpasses the dog as the first line.
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Old August 20, 2008, 05:34 PM   #9
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The real world of house murders

Gents,

In the real world your house has been scouted and decided upon, your routine has been checked, your sleeping and waking patterns have been scrutinised, your dog been fed, they have been onto your property at least twice to check your systems.

Then they either feed your dog meat or poison it with Temic - it goes two steps and dies in silence, no suffering, Then when your family is watching TV and they hear someone is having a bath, they throw a garden chair through the window, rush in and put a gun to your daughter's head and one aimed at you before you have gone to your gun safe to get the short pumpgun, and even if you have it in your hands he crowds your kid and the other one whips your wife in the mouth with his Z88 9mm. They are hard and trained and fearless and in control, not you. They put the gun against your head and rapes your wife and daughter in front of you, then take the mobile phones, your watch, the pump gun, your vehicle keys and execute you from behind after you have cried and begged for your life. It happens daily in my city; and elsewhere.

We've been attacked. We won. We are the exemptions to the rule.

I do have a pump gun, but my revolver is on me, I have gone through the mental exercise of not being scared anymore to kill immediately, and still I know that initially there is huge trauma and they have the initiative and I shall be reactive. That is the crucial thing- to immediately take the initiative, whatever the odds. They are trained in their actions, you better be as well.
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Old August 20, 2008, 05:56 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Somebody who lives in a tougher neighborhood than Detroit

Gents,

In the real world your house has been scouted and decided upon, your routine has been checked, your sleeping and waking patterns have been scrutinised, your dog been fed, they have been onto your property at least twice to check your systems.

Then they either feed your dog meat or poison it with Temic - it goes two steps and dies in silence, no suffering, Then when your family is watching TV and they hear someone is having a bath, they throw a garden chair through the window, rush in and put a gun to your daughter's head and one aimed at you before you have gone to your gun safe to get the short pumpgun, and even if you have it in your hands he crowds your kid and the other one whips your wife in the mouth with his Z88 9mm. They are hard and trained and fearless and in control, not you. They put the gun against your head and rapes your wife and daughter in front of you, then take the mobile phones, your watch, the pump gun, your vehicle keys and execute you from behind after you have cried and begged for your life. It happens daily in my city; and elsewhere.

We've been attacked. We won. We are the exemptions to the rule.

I do have a pump gun, but my revolver is on me, I have gone through the mental exercise of not being scared anymore to kill immediately, and still I know that initially there is huge trauma and they have the initiative and I shall be reactive. That is the crucial thing- to immediately take the initiative, whatever the odds. They are trained in their actions, you better be as well.
I'm sure glad I don't live in your neighborhood.

But more to the point, would the attackers you mention be scared away
when you simply rack the pump on your shotgun?
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Old August 20, 2008, 06:09 PM   #11
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Gents,

In the real world your house has been scouted and decided upon....

Wow, unless your talking about the Nazi SS, I'm not sure where this kind of thing happens. At least not as the normal MO.
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Old August 20, 2008, 06:42 PM   #12
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A BG will only hear a pump shotgun rack in my house after the one in the pipe is fired as soon as the laser is on his chest.
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Old August 20, 2008, 06:51 PM   #13
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Quote:
A perp that will grovel at the mere
sound of a shotgun being racked probably can be chased off by a poodle.
That's why it's best to have that recording of a spastic poodle backing up the recording of racking the shotgun. Might as well cover all bases

Quote:
Then when your family is watching TV and they hear someone is having a bath, they throw a garden chair through the window, rush in and put a gun to your daughter's head and one aimed at you before you have gone to your gun safe
For some of us, that first action of the chair going through the window would be greeted by the perpetrators eating 230 gr HydraShoks, or the like, as some of us have already spoken in other threads about being armed at all times while even in the house. Seems there is a clear distinction about location in this regard, that folks in rural areas and those far from a major city, don't seem to understand.
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Old August 20, 2008, 07:03 PM   #14
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+1 Stevie Ray.

When an intrusion occurs in this house (all of our bedrooms are on the second floor) and the intruder hits the foyer area, there will be five of us shooting a stupid fish in a barrel. Prolly all with their shotguns as we have trained but maybe one or two of us with their .45 or .357.
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Old August 20, 2008, 07:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
Seems there is a clear distinction about location in this regard, that folks in rural areas and those far from a major city, don't seem to understand.

I understand. I just have trouble understanding why people stay there. I know there are jobs and family ties, people love the city life, etc. On the grand scale it seems not worth it to me.

To each his own.
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Old August 20, 2008, 09:26 PM   #16
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In the most recent issue of Combat Handguns a man wrote about six creeps blocking his exit and sort of demanding he go with them to a 'party'. He had a Colt Trooper .357. In the story he says he cocked the .357 SLOW below the door and told the guy that the sound he heard was the most quietist sound a .357 makes. The thugs left him alone.

We do know for a fact that in many cases where the British and Indian soldiers bolted their rifles or fixed bayonets the crowds did melt away.

So maybe sometimes the rack of a shotgun might work.
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Old August 20, 2008, 09:54 PM   #17
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My HD shotgun is in condition 1. Only safety click, but with 4 dogs probably all over the BG they would not even hear a slide rack. If the dogs have been eliminated, I don't want any warning before the real noise starts.
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Old August 20, 2008, 10:05 PM   #18
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If I feel the need, I leave an AR carbine next to the bed (beside the .45 that lives there). I leave the bolt open, safety off on a full 30 round mag. Anyone who's ever slapped a round home on an AR knows how loud and distinctive that is and I would hope that it's sound would be enough to be at least a warning. If he's smart enough to realize that that noise means even body armor isn't gonna save his butt, then so much the better.

I see no real downside to letting an intruder know, in a universal language that there is an armed homeowner nearby, and offering a chance to escape uninjured. Only thing I could see is if an intruder was there for the sole purpose of harming an inhabitant; you would be giving up your location. I think that scenario is pretty rare and not really worth worrying about for most people.
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Old August 20, 2008, 10:17 PM   #19
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I can remember one incident where it worked but I'm not sure if anyone filled their pants. We as LEOS were doing a search between houses in a dangerous neighborhood. There were 4 men in an adjoining yard playing cards and badmouthing us as we moved through. My partner racked his shotgun and all of them ran into the house. They were doing a lot of trash talking before the shotgun was racked. The shotgun would always get my attention, either racked or unracked.
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Old August 20, 2008, 10:18 PM   #20
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Personally, . . . I have a 7 shot, semi auto shotgun, . . . loaded 4,4,4,00,00,slug,slug.

IF, . . . all I had was a 3 shot 870, . . . racking it takes me down to a pump action double barrell, . . . nahhhhhhh!

Racking it also gives away the fact that I know what is happening, . . . where I am, . . . and how I am armed.

I'd much rather it was all a surprize to them.

May God bless,
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Old August 20, 2008, 10:29 PM   #21
mountainclmbr
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I always have a CCW gun, but shotgun is loaded 7 rounds Slug, Slug, 00 buck for the rest. Loaded condition 1. Dogs will do all the early warning necessary.
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Old August 20, 2008, 11:02 PM   #22
Nnobby45
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Quote:
But more to the point, would the attackers you mention be scared away
when you simply rack the pump on your shotgun?
I think the point is that you aren't going to make it to your shotgun before your wife or kids have a gun to their head.

Quote:
Wow, unless your talking about the Nazi SS, I'm not sure where this kind of thing happens. At least not as the normal MO.
Try Googling crime, Republic of South Africa. To include carjackings where the murder rate for the driver is 75%, and gang rape of all female occupants, with little concern for age, is closer to 100%. And where newspapers are forbidden by law to report such violent crime incidents.
The reason I suspect RSA is because of the ensuing rape in front of the rest of the family, which is a trademark for home invasions there.

In the cases I'm familiar with, the criminals were foiled when an intended victim produced a pistol instantly and didn't hesitate.

I would hope that's not happening here, but given the easy access to our country by foreign criminals, one never knows.

For the rest of us, the crimminals may be less sophisticated, but capable of entring our homes just as fast and catching us off guard.

Latest Crime MO in Latin America is to kidnap a selected target off the street and force them to access their life's savings accounts and x-fer funds into kidnappers account from his laptop. Survival rate for victims: About zero--no witnesses.

But that's in Latin America--no worries that it will find it's way here.

I think advise to have your weapon on you at all times is the best course, with access to a shotgun where circumstances permit.

We'll talk about terrorists, who haven't really raised their head here yet, some other time.

Sorry to get a little off track, but I don't see the shotgun as a solution to most of the aforementioned problems, which more often get solved (if at all) with pistols and lack of dithering.
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Old August 21, 2008, 05:54 AM   #23
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This is better......

1 Tape recording of spastic poodle.

2 Back up with recording of racking shotgun.

3 Triple threat recording of Zulu war dance.....very scary.

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Old August 21, 2008, 06:43 AM   #24
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Quote:
Wow, unless your talking about the Nazi SS, I'm not sure where this kind of thing happens. At least not as the normal MO.
What I'm about to say applies to the area I live in. Some of you who live in these war zones y'all describe in big cities may have different experiences.

Right, peetza. Your normal burglar is not a fearless, trigger-happy, Uzi-toting messenger of death. In fact, most burglaries are committed unarmed because using a weapon carries a much longer jail sentence. Most burglars like to break in when the occupants are NOT at home, and will often leave quickly if they hear human sounds from within.

Home invasion is a different story - however, most home invasions are not well planned and many are a spur-of-the-moment idea. They're usually committed when there's only one occupant in the house, usually female. Rape is attempted (usually fails if the female struggles a lot) or done, and a robbery is committed. Sometimes an elderly man is beaten. I know these things are not to be taken lightly, but it proves your average BG is a bully and a coward and will NOT attack someone they think might be able to fight back. They want it quick and easy. Children are almost never targeted. Men are seldom targeted. The BG is often a neighbor, lives in the area, or is known to the victim.

Frankly, if I lived in an area where I thought the described scenario could happen, I'd have a 10' razor wire/electrified fence around my property, carry some major shoot power constantly, and hire some professional guards. Alternatively, I'd move. Geez, some of these places must be real jungles. Why do you live there?

Now, as to the deterrent of a shotgun being pumped or a slide being racked - it sure is! I don't know about most of you macho tough guys, but if I'm in someone's house at night, and I hear a pump or slide being racked, I'm sure as heck gonna stop in my tracks, at least until I find out just where that thing is pointed. I'm probably gonna realize I'm outgunned and the simple smash and grab I was going to pull ain't gonna work. At that point, I'm outta there! If I look down and see a red dot on my chest, I'm gonna try and look as harmless as possible.

As to someone breaking in and doing all that stuff before you even have time to catch your breath - only real pros with commando, ninja, or SWAT-type training can pull that off. Next thing you know, the BGs will be using flash-bang grenades.

A loud dog, good alarm system, being alert, and a PD weapon of choice will take care of about 99.8% of what might happen. Let's face it, if the BG is a REAL PRO, you're beaten before you start, because you are NOT a REAL PRO. All you can do in that case is go down shooting.
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Old August 21, 2008, 06:59 AM   #25
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Nnooby45,

Quote:
But that's in Latin America--no worries that it will find it's way here.
I do realize the described scenario is the norm in some countries. I'm like peetza, why does someone live in a place like that? I'd find the means and funds to get out somehow!

I don't know where "here" is for you, but for me - American by birth, Southern by choice. Mess like that hasn't generally found its way here yet, but it's coming if someone doesn't get a handle on things here in the US.

That's why the ranks of gun owners/carriers are increasing. That's why you see major lobbying campaigns launched to relax gun ownership/carry regulations. That's why almost every CWP class in SC is filled. There are literally hundreds of classes in my area alone. Cops can't be everywhere, and the government isn't generally interested in the single person. It's up to us.
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