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Old August 19, 2008, 05:32 PM   #1
Gene2008
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Identify Baker Gun from Batavia NY.

Please help me identify: age, value, and anything else of interest.
I have just inherited from my father. A brother says it was my great grandfathers. I have two barrels. Receiver, barrels, and forearm are all serial number 1516. Barrels are steel not Damascus.

Barrels are clean inside but have some corrosion on the outside...any suggestion on the best way to clean them?

Thanks in advance,
Gene





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Old August 20, 2008, 02:55 AM   #2
Harley Nolden
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Baker Gun Co of Batavia New York 1903 to 1933, then bought out by Crescent Gun Co. After Crescent bought them out they, Crescent, still used the Batavia Leader as a trade name on that gun.

If I read the inscription correctly yours is the Batavia Leader model made by Baker and later by Crescent. Not an import.

As far as value on the Baker, my opinion, If I was still collecting these things, I would put around $200.00 $250.00. Good solid utilitarian double.

Harley
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Old August 20, 2008, 08:53 AM   #3
J F Cooper
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Baker

My references differ somewhat from the above poster. Baker Gun Cop produced guns from about 1887 to 1919, when they were bought out by the H D Folsome Co., Folsom was the owner of the Crescent Firearms Co.. Crescent continued to make the Baker till the late 20s or early 30s. these guns (made by Crescent) had an F in the serial number.. The Batavia leader was a plain, unengraved model.. yours appears to be a Higher grade, engraved model.. From your post, you nention 2 barrels, if that means an extra set of barrels, you gun is likely worth in excess of $500.. JFC
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Old August 20, 2008, 10:06 AM   #4
Harley Nolden
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During that era there were several Baker Gun companies.

W.H. Baker, located in Marathon New York starting in or around 1870. when they moved to Syracuse New York and remained in business until 1886.

Baker gun company was also a trade name used by H&D Folsom on shotguns they retailed. Probably the guns from W.C. Baker.

Baker Gun company of Batavia New York from 1903 until purchased by Crescent in 1933. Crescent was later purchased by H&D Folsom.

There was also a Baker T shotgun which was a Belgium import by Sears.

As I look at the side-locks it indicates Baker Gun Company Batavia New York. The information by the previous post is somewhat confusing in that there is an indication that the W.C. Baker also made the Batavia. Additionally! the dates presented are coorisponding to the W.C. Baker Gun Company. I can find no information that the W.C. Baker was ever located in Batavia New York or that they had the Batavia marking on the side plate.


Harley
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Old August 20, 2008, 01:47 PM   #5
J F Cooper
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Baker

Harvey.. The gun in the photo is a Batavia made Baker, the company was started by William H Baker and his brother, Ellis, I Am not familiar with W C Baker... Also, according to Charles E Carder, well known authority on American double guns, Folsom took over the Finincial control of Crescent in 1893... JFC
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Old August 20, 2008, 03:03 PM   #6
Harley Nolden
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Mr Cooper

Oddly enough my information comes from the same resource you have presented. I must be missing something or I don't understand.

W.H Baker Gun Co was located in Marathon New York, and later in Syracruse New York.


The Baker Gun Co was located in Batavia New York. So how is it that W.H. Baker is the Baker Gun Co of Batavia New York.

Harley
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Old August 20, 2008, 04:38 PM   #7
Gene2008
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update

Thanks for the feedback please keep it coming.

I was wrong about the barrels...they are both Damascus Twist Barrels.
Both are the same serial number as the receiver and forearm 1516.

One is 28" the other is 30"...four different choke sizes.

BTW I only have one forearm. Should there be one for each barrel?

I can post more pictures if it would help.

Thanks again,
Gene
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Old August 20, 2008, 08:50 PM   #8
12ette
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Hello all, Gene2008 I can across this post while surfing... amazing gun in my opinion.

Breach of protocal I am sure, but...

I would suggest, Gene2008, that you post this on the doublegunshop.com there are some people that would be very interested in seeing and hearing about this gun. Knowing that you have a 2 barrel set with matching SN, this is a rarity. Also such a low serial number with the engraving leads me to think this a Paragon grade, but in my experience "Paragon" is usually stamped on the water table.

Oh and to give you and idea my 1909 catalog has this gun listed at $72.50 and $10 extra for ejectors, this is a high quality firearm. The Special listed at $21.75

W.H Baker started in marathon, sold out to L.C. Smith. Later open and work with the Ithaca Gun Company. He left and stared Syracuse Forging and Gun Company, Syracuse, NY (making The New Baker Gun). From here I believe he opened Baker Gun Co. and after a fire operations were moved to Batavia, NY. I am not sure how long exactly W. H. Baker was involved because he died in the late 1890s exact date escapes me.
The Batavia, NY works were sold in 1919 to the H.D Fulsom Co, and these guns typically will have an "F" in the serial number.

Please stop by and share.
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Old August 21, 2008, 07:20 AM   #9
J F Cooper
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Baker

Harley: Don't know where our mix up is. If the poster will go to doublegunshop, com REsaercher or Halquist can give him th correct history.. Since the gun now has Twist barrels, I will say it's a B grade (an A Grade if they're Damacus).. I don't think it's a Paragon.. It mostlike;y had 2 forends when new. It can be cleaned up with 0000 steel wool and gun oil.. I, for one, would like to see more pcs of the gun in order to determine grade and value..JFC
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Old August 21, 2008, 02:16 PM   #10
Gene2008
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Barrel photos...







I guess T is for twist and D for Damascus

I wish they were in better condition...
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Old August 21, 2008, 03:31 PM   #11
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I would say they are damascus barrels, or at least the top one. The way I understand a damascus barrel to be made is basically heating and forge welding a steel rod around a mandrel. Because of this process is why you get variations in metallurgy and pitting that falls into a spiral pattern which is easy to see on the top barrel.
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Old August 22, 2008, 06:35 AM   #12
J F Cooper
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Baker

I think what you have is an A Grade Baker, with an extra set of B Grade Barrels.. JFC
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Old August 27, 2008, 07:42 PM   #13
Dbl bbl
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Hi All,

I wish that I could open the pictures....stupid machine! Mr. Cooper is correct. Sounds like an A (D=damascus) grade. B grade had twist bbls (T) on lug. I have a B grade with twist bbls. I got my info quite a while back from Mr. Hallquist. Later guns with steel bbls were R and S grades. Wish mine had two sets of bbls!! Nice guns. Fantastic heirloom!!
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