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Old August 29, 2008, 09:49 AM   #76
thawntex
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Wearing baggy pants and oversized shirts doesn't make you a gangbanger any more than shopping at Western Warehouse makes you a cowboy. Now that I think about it, perhaps I should go buy some scrubs so that everyone thinks I'm a doctor.

I live in Dallas. People walk right in front of my house every day wearing hip-hop style clothing. If they were all criminals, I'd be in a world of hurt.

I have experienced property crime. Someone stole my bike, and a street sign near my house has been vandalized three times. I have seen no evidence, however, that I live in the midst of well-trained gangs. When some kid on the way to school scribbles something on the street sign, I promptly go and paint over it. No one shoots at me; problem solved.

I find it curious that when people write these assumptions based on clothing, they sometimes follow it up with "that's just the way it is", or "that's the truth, period". Well, maybe that's the truth to you. I need to see some proof before I consider something true. So far, my black neighbors have only proven to me that they like to dress differently.
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Old September 1, 2008, 02:00 PM   #77
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Can't wait till i'm 21, getting my CCW. I live in montgomery county maryland, we get a bunch of those gangbanging pieces of **** around here alllll the time. I'm about 2 minutes away from DC so its pretty bad when it comes to gangs and a bunch of crimes, quite annoying. I hope i will never have to use one of my guns in a break-in but, if worst comes to worst, i will do whatever it takes to protect myself and my family.
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Old September 4, 2008, 08:54 PM   #78
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I especially take notice to any one wearing a Kilt.

You want to be noticed by wearing a kilt, your going to be especially noticed by me.
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Old September 11, 2008, 07:06 AM   #79
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Under wear showing?

A town here in Florida brought out an ordnance, saw it on TV in passing, don't know the name, help anyone?

The Police were arresting and taking them in, right on the News.

One of my Buddy's lives in Chicago, runs a big Security Company, they work in Malls... "No Shirt-No shoes-Gang clothes" no Service, say the signs.

They have been in Court to defend this, and won. All his staff are armed.

Good news is, they don't run quick.
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Old September 16, 2008, 11:29 PM   #80
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I've spent a lot of time in New Orleans, LA, Atlanta, GA and Detroit, MI and, yes, "they all seem to dress like that": low class Blacks, White and Latinos. Self-respecting individuals will not dress with their pants hanging below their arses and shirts 4X too big.
I'd say a person's appearance is a "dead giveaway" of his/her mindset. Then his/her mannerisms and speech patterns. Since I don't have the time/take the time to indulge in conersations with random strangers if you look the part of a villain I'll assume that either you WISH to be looked upon that way or you are. Game. Set. Match.
I have to reiterate what was said here. Hopefully Chui doesn't mind the order in which they are posted. What he says here is true. Definitely, if you don't want to be treated like a common criminal, you can go a long way by not trying your best to look like one.
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Old September 16, 2008, 11:55 PM   #81
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Why do you think they must fill a SUV with 20 guys all armed with automatic weapons to hit one guy in a drive by? I beleieve their bullets to kill ratio to be about 2000:1, 2000 being bullets .
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Old September 17, 2008, 12:56 AM   #82
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Posted by Dr.J:
There are a ton of gang members that have extensive military training. Some gangs actually require that their potential members make good grades in high school, graduate, and then enlist in the marine corps. The evidence can be found spray painted all over U.S combat zones. I've never been to Iraq, but I have seen quite a few pictures on the news of Chicago based gang signs painted in Baghdad. Also, the smart gangsters,and yes they exist! don't always dress like stereotypes so that they won't be targeted by law enforcement. The way a person looks or dresses has very little to do with their actions. I know a lot of harmless people who look fairly intimidating, and some of the most dangerous folks I have had the misfortune of meeting wear very nice suits. Whoever posted this original thread comes off as fairly ignorant. Of course gangsters clean their guns, are you f#@&ing joking! Their lives depend on their guns more often than most people, and yes they clean them. Plus shooting a gun is not rocket science. It is a skill that virtually anybody can learn with enough practice. The bottom line in this debate is that gang members come in a variety of forms. They could be drug addicted thugs with a dirty revolver, or they could be ex-marine expert marksmen that could kill you with a set of keys. It is fairly hard for the average person to tell what another person has been trained in by looking at them, so it is best to always assume that any assailant is better trained than you are, even if they aren't.

Totally agree. Concerning immigrants, MS-13(probably the most dangerous, fastest growing) spawned from El Salvador which has civil wars spanning the last 20 yrs due to periodic coups attempts. The battle tested veterans of these wars have crossed our borders and taken root in Cali and spread east from there. When/if extradited, they start recruitment once back home and along the way back(Nicaragua, Guatemala, etc...) to the US border. These guys have LIVED war in their homeland, a lot to reckon with... They prey mostly on other gangs and their respective territories. Most gangs can't compete with these soldiers.

While I don't claim to be an expert, I have traveled extensively in Mexico, and throughout Central America down to the Darian Gap. I love the people(girlfriend is Guat btw) and cultures down there. This gang shiite is the one thing I detest.
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Old September 17, 2008, 01:29 AM   #83
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Wearing baggy pants and oversized shirts doesn't make you a gangbanger any more than shopping at Western Warehouse makes you a cowboy.
Well, Thawntex I read the post same as you, and it's clear to me that their gangbanger looks may not have been conclusive proof, but their punk like, disrespectful and intimidating behavior was more than a slight indicator.

Apparently they were intimidating enough that none of the other shooters was willing to discuss the safety rules with them.
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Old September 17, 2008, 03:41 AM   #84
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Gangbangers?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Do you all think that the gangbangers and other criminals practice and or train with their guns?

I know they do. Usually it's not at a Range, but in the neighborhood, so to speak. Stray dogs and cats aren't as much of a problem.

You would think that these are folks who cannot legally own a gun, so where do the shoot?

In the alley behind an Industrial Park, pop a few off at a STOP sign by the Park and in a wash by the Supermarket.

Do they clean their guns?

Some do, some don't. Some don't even know how to load their gun and just shoot what's in the gun until it runs dry. Then they trade it for something else. Others are like soldiers or cops and clean their guns and know what they are doing.

Anybody else ever thought about this?

Not really, I have other pressing matters to concern myself with.
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Old September 17, 2008, 09:51 AM   #85
thawntex
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A town here in Florida brought out an ordnance, saw it on TV in passing, don't know the name, help anyone?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080916...justiceoffbeat

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

-T
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Old September 17, 2008, 06:53 PM   #86
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And I only thought I had to worry about my gun printing. Baggy pants ban, do city legislators even know the first thing about the constitution?
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Old September 17, 2008, 07:06 PM   #87
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IMHO Gangbangers do train with their favorite firearm.

Just never underestimate anybody you may have to face off with.
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Old October 11, 2008, 12:42 PM   #88
Chui
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I dunno Recon7, have you and the wannabes and gangsters ever heard of Indecency Laws. No one wants to see your/my/their underwear. If I were a legislator would threaten to charge them as sexual offenses. THAT would get their attentions.
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Old October 13, 2008, 06:44 AM   #89
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I have to say that when it comes to gang-bangers...I agree with the statement "demeanor and dress are two seperate things". You can't make an assumption based on the way someone is dressed.

A good example of this is what our troops are having to deal with in Afghanistan and Iraq. The "thugs" and "cowards" know that they cannot win a conventional war against us so they have taken to blending in with the rest of the crowd. They are not wearing some kind of identifying dress that says "Hey, I am a terrorist! Please shoot me!" They look, talk, and dress like everyone else. The only way that you can tell what someones intent is, is to watch their body language. Do they look nervous? Are their eyes darting around? What are they doing with their hands? What is their facial expression? Is something out of place? This is called situational awareness.

Now, if they pull out an AK-47 and point it in your direction that is a pretty clear indication of what their intent is. What I am trying to say here is that until you can positivley identify what someones intent is then you would never know if they are just an average local trying to live their life, or if they have an RPG or and AK-47 under their cloak. That is why I say that a persons dress doesn't really have anything to do with it.

This is of course my personal opinion and, I do realize their is another side to this story but I think we have Hollywood, and the entertainment business to thank for glamorizing gangs and urban-hip hop attire. This is how most people associate gangs with big baggy cloths.
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Old October 19, 2008, 12:15 AM   #90
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I really hate to see people being judged by appearance. How do you think a 12 year old kid dressed like one of the Brady bunch would do in some of these neighborhoods. Most of us (including myself) have never lived in a truly bad area. The kids in these areas dress the same but most are not true beet in gang members. Believe it or not some people that live in a violent area would like to learn how to use a gun to defend themselves and there family. I don't know why.
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Old October 19, 2008, 01:25 AM   #91
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The "thugs" and "cowards" know that they cannot win a conventional war against us
I don't know if that's a proper analogy.

Resistance members who choose to fight a guerrilla war against the best equipped military force on earth, are no cowards.
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Old October 19, 2008, 07:23 AM   #92
Chui
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I really hate to see people being judged by appearance.
Keep in mind I'm not speaking about a person's race. I couldn't care less. You adorn yourself with "jailhouse tatoos", baggy jeans, oversize shirts, expensive sneakers or boots unlaced, a goofy flat brimmed baseball cap al topped off with gawdy, oversized jewelry reeks THUG to me. I'll not have much tolerance for someoe who CHOOSES to adorn themselves in that manner and I don't expect you to, either. You can add the "race" of the person depending on your breed of general miscreant. Where I am they look like Neopolitan bars: Black, White and something in-between so race doesn't play much of an issue.
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Old October 19, 2008, 07:47 AM   #93
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gangbangers

train for the worst and pray for the best!
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Old October 19, 2008, 08:58 AM   #94
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One of my martial arts instructors has been a prison guard in a federal prison for many years. Jack is on the entry team, a firearms and knife instructor and is a very scarey guy to go up against at the dojo.

He says that in prison, many of the inmates practice martial arts, a lot. They practice techniques against police handcuffing, searches etc. There are inmates that scare Jack and his fellow CO's and that is intimidating to me.

His advice to me (35 years of martial arts, karate, boxing, wrestling, jiu-jitsu, judo, TKD - zero criminal activites) was this: Criminals live immersed in a world of violence so it is natural that the scariest of them are very good at it. Civilians like me should stay away from them. If confronted by them, take no chances and do whatever needs to be done to put them down quickly and then run like hel*.

So if they train in unarmed techniques I can only assume that some of them (the most motivated) train in firearms as well.

So following Jack's advice for an univited single, armed criminal in my home, it'll be 2 in the chest and observe the results.
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Old October 19, 2008, 09:19 AM   #95
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I live in CT. It really isn't too bad here. We have bad areas, but every state does. Do I judge people by how they dress? Of course! The guy in the baggy pants, massive poncho of a shirt, and jewelry enough to restock Wal-Mart isn't seen as a scary predator, but much rather as a poor fool who has never learned how to spend his money(typically he is walking-sell the bling and get a car!). A girl dressed in clothing that shows a lot of skin doesn't reflect modesty, does it? Then it would only be proper to assume that she isn't the most clean or moral young lady. When I come into contact with such people, I do not shy away. I do not talk down to them. Guys my age recieve a simple greeting, those older than me get a good old fashion "sir". Women who also appear older than me get a "ma'am". My eyes are meant to be used, in many instances they are the first of my senses to detect trouble. That is why I trust them. I do not judge by race, but how an individual keeps themselves says a lot. While I am observing someone, I watch their eyes, and mannerisms. As for their vehicles, I take mental notes on different charcteristics. Part of this is just the way I am. I recognize very strange things about people. I have a photographic memory that seems to be stuck on record. It has never hurt anybody to have their wits about them.

I have been to the range and seen the "urban dressers" come in. Do they make me nervous? Somewhat. What makes me nervous about them is their poor skills. I have seen the magazines fallout of their guns. I have seen them miss the 8 inch bullseye ten feet away. I have seen the guns nearly fall out of their hands under rapid fire. I still smile, and greet them. I ask them when they joined the club and so on.

As for gangs and all that goes with it, I have nothing but disgust. Its premise, its style, its attitude, and music exudes an absolute abominable level of pride and selfishness. The language is foul and fake. Irresponsibility and a child like attitude carried to devilish proportions is celebrated and nutured. Why is this all so bad? Because we are AMERICANS! My allegiance is to my God and Country, not to false "brotherhood" of traitors. We have been blessed with a country that was founded on the BIBLE and a firm belief In God, a nation that was never to be enslaved by tribalism and murder. What made America great WAS our people. What is destroying America? Our people. To all the staff at TFL, My apologies for going off topic.
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Old October 19, 2008, 11:57 AM   #96
Dresden2001
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Criminals. . . and gangbangers of all types routinely practice both empty hand defense and gun takeaways in Prison. I have seen it happen more times than I can count. Older Gangster Disciples and Vice Lords training less experienced convicts in cells or in the yard. I have no doubt that some gangbangers practice with firearms, while some CHL holders rarely go to the range.

Rant On:

It's a matter of life and death.

Let's begin with schooling. Great place to start -

http://www.amazon.com/Gun-Digest-Boo.../dp/0896896110

Then let's talk about clothing. I don't know how to evaluate the number of CHL folks who actually dress for a confrontation, but my guess is that some otherwise prepared CCW holders don't dress for a confrontation, and may not even carry a spare magazine or extra ammo.

I don't go out much without a gun, and I usually wear a Woolrich or 5.11 covert shirt over my concealed firearm. In the winter I cover up with a 5.11 jacket designed for concealed carry. . . I don't own a shootmefirst vest but I do have several fleece vests that do a nice job of concealing my hardware.

Training is key. . . The range I go to allows LE and security personnel to draw and fire from a holster. Since I am retired I persuaded them to include me in that cohort and I train monthly with my handguns and about quarterly with my rifle and shotgun. . . If you go to the same range regularly and demonstrate sound gun handling skills I bet you could talk the RO's into allowing you to practice using realistic methods.

Hey mister can you tell me how to get to Carnegie Hall?? Sure man, practice, practice, practice.

Rant Off.

And remember, let's be careful out there. . .
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Old October 19, 2008, 12:37 PM   #97
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Criminals were all types of clothing. Hip Hop dressing Gangbangers will steal the money in your wallet. Well dressed Gangsters dress in suites and steal your future. I wonder what the Criminals at ENRON wore. Oh my, that was deep.

You can't really tell what a criminal will wear or what type of music they listen too or were they live.
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Old October 19, 2008, 04:43 PM   #98
mpage
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Quote:
Well dressed Gangsters dress in suites and steal your future. I wonder what the Criminals at ENRON wore. Oh my, that was deep.
We're talking about the generally accepted use of the term gangster, and their use of firearms. This is a firearms forum.
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Old October 19, 2008, 09:31 PM   #99
bottom rung
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This topic certainly should encourage many of us to pursue better training. Career criminals are good at what they do. I know I will be looking to step up my own personal training.
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Old October 20, 2008, 05:53 PM   #100
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well

from what i know from friends, gangbangers test out their guns with a thing called gun blazing. Usually they'll wait till it gets dark and drive or walk somewhere thats isolated and far from people where no one can see and fire their guns usually just a couple of shots and then leave fast. theres an abandoned hospital not far from where i live and it has a couple of bullet holes in the walls which is now covered with graffiti.
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