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Old August 9, 2008, 07:49 PM   #1
Crow61
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Gangbangers?

Do you all think that the gangbangers and other criminals practice and or train with their guns?

You would think that these are folks who cannot legally own a gun, so where do the shoot?

Do they clean their guns?

Anybody else ever thought about this?
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Old August 9, 2008, 08:12 PM   #2
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Always Assume the Worst

I always assume that I will be comfronted by someone with an above average ability to handle a firearm. That is why I train.
Like they say in bodybuilding, Your competition is training even if your not.
I assume a criminal would be more comfortable with killing than most people are and would be determined not to go to jail so that makes them even more lethal.
Plus gangbangers often travel in groups so even if they are not trained but are still armed, one shot in the dark toward you could be "all she wrote".
I think you should focus on your strength and weakness.
I know its kind of cold but i see it as a boxing match. You train as hard as you can to get as good as you can be and may the best man win though sometimes you are better lucky than good. Sorry for the sports examples but thats how I see it. Focus on you and you system of security (home alarm system, exit stragedy, clean and functioning firearms, situation awareness, etc...) and trust that your training will get you through.
We can't account for every variable but we can (through forums like this) establish a solid plan you would bet your life on. Good Luck!!!
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Old August 9, 2008, 08:21 PM   #3
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"Anybody else ever thought about this?"

The military and their federal law enforcement counterparts think about it. I'm sure certain state and local entities do as well.

It has been established that criminal entities send members into the military, and not for reasons of patriotism. Some eventually "deploy" back to the "civilian field" with training and practical experience intact. It has also been established that some of them serve as trainers of sorts.
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Old August 9, 2008, 08:24 PM   #4
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It doesn't take much training to shoot someone from ten feet away, you don't even need sights at that range.
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Old August 9, 2008, 08:58 PM   #5
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I think they train more than none but not realistically or "FOF" for a unwilling victim. I knew a pot dealer that carried a S&W 5906 with 3 rounds in the gun gun and FMJ's at that. No idea if he could shoot or not but just a comment on the mentality you are referencing. He had shot all the rounds the gun came with. no idea if that was at someone or what but he had a 15 + 1 pistol with 2 +1 rounds loaded...
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Old August 9, 2008, 09:23 PM   #6
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Let's make a quick point about "gangbangers". The people most of you guys on here call gangbangers (the ones you see wearing a lot of jewelry and baggy pants) are not highly trained or motivated individuals for the most part...most of them are mall ninjas of sorts who think having a gun empowers them. These are the people that you'd probably cross the street to avoid or tell your wife to make sure her purse is protected.

The enforcers and muscle men of real criminal organizations (real gangs) do usually have tactical training, firearms training geared towards what they do. You would likely not fear or be very apprehensive of these people if you saw them on the streets.

The average stick up guy is probably as familiar with guns as a newbie who thinks his Glock 17 will protect him from bad guys and polar bears even if he allows concrete to cure in the barrel. The guys who pull home invasions and car jackings are probably a lot more proficient with tactics and firearms...

Ultimately I assume that everyone out there is better and faster than me, that's why I keep trying to improve and learn as much as I can.
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Old August 9, 2008, 09:27 PM   #7
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Doesn't matter. My CWP instructor told us, "If a guy comes at you with his fists, you gotta assume he's Joe Lewis. If a guy comes at you with a knife, you gotta assume he's an expert, including throwing it. If a guy comes at you with a gun, you gotta asume he's Wyatt Earp." In other words, NEVER underestimate your opponent.
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Old August 9, 2008, 09:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
It has been established that criminal entities send members into the military,...
Absolutely. Active gang membership in the military (and, therefore, military-trained gang membership) has become endemic. Gang graffiti in Iraq and gang signs by combat personnel in photos and video serve as visual reminders. There are gang members doing drive-bys (and teaching others to do the same) who have shot from moving vehicles while being shot at in Iraq and Afghanistan. There are gang members planning home invasions with skills learned in MOUT schools, and honed in combat.

So - are the majority of gang members cleaning their weapons, shooting accurately, and training to move in groups? Hardly. But always assume the worst (best?) of your opponent, and plan/act accordingly.
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Old August 9, 2008, 09:29 PM   #9
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'Train' may be an overstatement, but I do know of a range here in Pennsylvania that was frequented by gangs on a relatively regular basis. This stopped when the range owner started asking for photo ID on the recommendation of a parole officer that worked there part time.

From what I was told, at first only one or two guys would come by and they were always polite and low key. But eventually they let their guard down and started showing up in larger groups. Even then, they didn't do anything to get themselves kicked out, which suggests that they were actually practicing with their weapons rather than screwing around - the range is pretty strict w/ regards to handling and procedures.
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Old August 9, 2008, 09:33 PM   #10
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Crow61

This a LARGE field to address perhaps, you could narrow the scope. There have been predators whom are well trained, maintained their skill level, are well armed, and maintain their weapons. There are also predators who don't. I have watched convicts in prison practice handgun takeaways, IN have seen predators use what we would call "advanced gunhandling skills". Do not underestimate your adversary!

Good Luck & Be Safe
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Old August 9, 2008, 10:24 PM   #11
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I suspect the only training 'bangers get is from watching their favorite movies and playing video games that show them how to hold their handguns sideways, "gangsta-style"

visual aid:



you'll know if they've any training if that's the case.


Gangstas? [*WARNING--FOUL LANGUAGE]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnP1hZFMCMA <-- the real deal right there with lots of guns!

The main thing to worry about with gang-bangers is being "punked-out" by them--falling victim to multiple attackers hiding unseen around the corner. Happened to me.

These cowardly little punks rely on strength in numbers for intimidation and/or to try and overwhelm you. Odds are at least one of them will be in possession of a firearm or edged weapon, but which one! Baggy clothing and hoodies make identifying concealed handguns and weapons much more difficult. All these damn kids wear them now! "Gangsta" is a fashion statement :barf:

Another popular gang tactic is to try and pull your shirt/jacket over your head so as to blind you and bind your arms up. My friend's father was murdered that way by two gang-bangers that jumped him, pulled his coat over his head and shoulders, removed his Glock from its holster and shot him DRT.

Don't underestimate these crafty little turds
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Old August 10, 2008, 01:22 PM   #12
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There are some folks that "fit the description" of a gangbanger that shoot at the range that I do. The come in and shoot a few rounds and leave. You do have to have a DL and the people who operate the range/gun shop keep your license while you are shooting.

It is kinda intimidating when they come in and start shooting.
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Old August 10, 2008, 01:31 PM   #13
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Really? Why do you feel intimidated? Do they say anything to you or look at you funny?
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Old August 10, 2008, 01:34 PM   #14
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Don't think gangs are strictly limited to urban areas....these thugs are slowly rolling out into rural areas. My town has had a few drive-bys in the last few months...one of the houses shot up was the wrong house.

Thank goodness everyone was upstairs ...

My greatest fear is that you take one of them out defending yourself and the rest of them decend on you like a pack of wolfs...days..weeks..months after the event.....
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Old August 10, 2008, 02:02 PM   #15
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It's hard to generalize. Each gang has different traits. Some are significantly more militarized and trained than others, Mara comes to mind first of course. There is also a significant increase in bangers that go to the military to get joint the military just to get training and (obviously) a higher portion of those have seen combat these days.
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Old August 10, 2008, 02:06 PM   #16
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Keep in mind that some gangbangers are military-trained former veterans with combat experience.

Hope that helps.
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Old August 10, 2008, 02:35 PM   #17
Crow61
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Quote:
Really? Why do you feel intimidated? Do they say anything to you or look at you funny?

No, they do not say anything to me. I am just not accustomed to shooting with/around people who are wearing their pants below their behing with their drawers showing.

These are the same types you see on the streets with loud and vulgar music blasting.

Do they have a right to be there? Sure, as long as they are not breaking any rules or the law. But, it still makes me uncomfortable.
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Old August 10, 2008, 02:38 PM   #18
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But, it still makes me uncomfortable.
But WHY do you feel uncomfortable? Are they threatening in some way?
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Old August 10, 2008, 02:48 PM   #19
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They have a "threatening" appearance. This type of dress does not bring respect to one's self.

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck.
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Old August 10, 2008, 03:02 PM   #20
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And training aside, remember that active criminals are often very familiar with violence, both dishing it out and receiving it.
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Old August 10, 2008, 03:02 PM   #21
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FBI

Anyone have a link to the recent FBI report on LEOs assaulted and injured / killed? IIRC in it a majority of those criminals interviewed claimed to have practiced, some at "real" shooting ranges, others in rural areas, dumps, gravel pits, etc, and some in urban areas where gunfire would not be reported. I have seen confiscated weapons range from Colt handguns to RG revolvers, and from sawed off single shot .410s to nice 870s.

My luck, I'd get the guy who practiced and had a nice 1911 instead of the guy with the starter pistol wrapped in duct tape.
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Old August 10, 2008, 03:41 PM   #22
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If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck.
This is not so..we have so many sayings that either rhyme or just sound good when spoken or written. just b/c it has a ring to it does not make it true. Seems that you are just uncomfortable with what you know nothing about. Baggy clothes and slang dont make a gangster any more than tight jeans and confederate flag lisence plate/bumper sticker and southern drawl make a racist. In the real world Ive come to discover that dress is just dress. I lierally know lawyers, engineers, fortune 500 managemnent that when not working dress in oversized jeans, sports jersey, bump loud music in the cars ect..nothing to to with gang life at all. I also work with alot of confederate flag wearing, never been out of thier town unless work related country folk who are great people. dress is just dress.
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Old August 10, 2008, 04:04 PM   #23
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Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of knowing and identifying which are the "real" gang-bangers and which ones are the wanna-be's. All these kids dress the same now-a-days!

As far as i'm concerned, if you want to act like a thug and appear/dress like a thug, expect to get treated as one !!
Demeanor means a lot to me regarding my own personal situational awareness and safety around these thugs.

I bet the same people commenting above saying not to generalize on peoples' appearance and clothing style take special precaution around biker-types or take notice of certain ethnic/religious groups when boarding an aircraft. Situational awareness means readily identifying whom or what may pose an immediate threat. If you're too sensitive or politically-correct to properly use SI, then there's no hope for you.


mom & dad - don't let your kids outta the house looking like a gangsta thug no matter how cool they think it is!
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Old August 10, 2008, 04:17 PM   #24
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I bet the same people commenting above saying not to generalize on peoples' appearance and clothing style take special precaution around biker-types or take notice of certain ethnic/religious groups when boarding an aircraft.
I take notice of everyone..and just like you said
Quote:
Demeanor means a lot to me regarding my own personal situational awareness
Demeanor and dress are not the same, I dont think I need to go into detail about that. But if I see someone who is acting in a way I feel is threatning, then my guard is up..but just b/c of your ethnicty, dress style or if you like to ride a motorcycle ? Situational awareness and blindly lumping peolpe in groups are not the same..there is nothing proper about that
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Old August 10, 2008, 04:24 PM   #25
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I'm going to respectfully disagree.

Granted EVERYONE gets a chance to prove themselves to me, once. I'm sure there are a lot of folks out there who are bagging, getting their swerve on and talking smack with their buddies, and thumping loud music that rattles widonws 2 blocks away, who are ok folks on the inside. But the 'duck' rule rings valid 99% of the time.

If you emulate a dress/lifestyle, be it hiphop/gansta or white arayan with red boot laces, you are telling me that is how you want to be percieved.

I am NOT saying everyone should be in khaki's and a polo..by ANY means...i wear a kilt most of the time...BUT in the world of situational awareness, my bell gets rung from a distance by dress and mannerism. Prejudice, you might ask? In a sense it is..to pre judge..to make a determination based on visual cues alone.

And yes, current gangs are often full of guys with MOUT experience. Not everyone in the military is a stand up, patriotic, flag waving Beaver Cleaver.

I try to assume that everyone has as much or more training than I...that way I can justify more training road trips to the spousal unit!
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