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Old August 9, 2008, 05:47 PM   #1
rem870hunter
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loose powder vs. pellets in an inline rifle question

i seem to recall that i can use loose powder or pellets in my traditions (tracker 209) inline rifle. paperwork went missing . have been using pellets in it. 2 50 gr. pellets of 777. with a sabot, not prb or cb.

what i would like to know is, has anyone used loose powder in an inline rifle and had no trouble with firing? having said that should i use the same amount of powder, meaning 2 50 gr pellets equaling 100 gr/100 gr. of loose powder?

the loose powder i have is hogdon pyrodex rs. ( cheapo right) works fine in my cva missouri ranger. the pellets cost more per pack than a pound of loose powder. i know i can get more shots with the loose than the pellets,and if i should run out of pellets but have loose powder i could use it. as long it works. a friend/coworker and i are going to the range in the morning.
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Old August 9, 2008, 07:51 PM   #2
arcticap
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Yes, loose Pyrodex powder works fine. Just be sure to ram the projectile firmly and consistently on top of the powder.
You can always start out with 80 or 90 grains too depending on the distance to the target and the accuracy results.
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Old August 9, 2008, 10:09 PM   #3
thallub
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I shoot both loose Pyrodex and two 50 grain Pyrodex pellets in my CVA Stag Horn. Both loads shoot the 240 grain XTP to the same point of impact.
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Old August 9, 2008, 10:22 PM   #4
fastforty
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The pellets (IMNHO) are just a gimmick. It might be nice to keep a few in a sealed, air/water tight tube in case your loose powder gets wet, or to make a quick loading second shot when you're shaking from the adrenalin dump you got taking the first shot on a monster buck or bear though. (EZ Loaders work pretty good under those circumstances too). Dropping 2 or 3 pellets down the tube takes a lot of the fun out of black powder shooting & it's WAY too expensive to use them all the time. Use the powder with confidence, but remember that it is equal to BP by VOLUME, NOT by weight.
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Old August 10, 2008, 04:38 AM   #5
rem870hunter
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thank you. for the clarification, i should expect the same results whether i use loose powder or pellets with the same projectile.

black powder is measured by volume and not by weight, fastforty,

i remember back when i took the muzzleloader safety course to hunt. there was a guy taking the course that had no clue about that. he stepped up to the firing line started loading his rifle. was pouring and pouring, the instructor looked at him and said" how much you putting in there"? he said "ninety grains". oh really was the instructors reply. how did you measure it? oh i just used my powder scale i use for reloading. whoa stop right there a minute buddy. everybody can i have your attention please. who here has a powder measure? the instructor asked. everybody had a powder measure for black powder except him. he had way too much poured in and still had some left over from his first charge. it wasn't an inline rifle, and wasn't a magnum model either.
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Old August 10, 2008, 10:53 AM   #6
Pahoo
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I mostly shoot loose powder in my traditionals as well as my in-lines. Rarely do I go to pellets. My hunting load is 95 grains, My target load is 70 grains and my teaching load is 40 grains. I suppose I could develope pellet loads but pretty happy with what I'm working with now and you get more bang for my bucks, using loose powder. You should not have ignition problems with the in-lines. However, I do use a musket primer on one of my in-line hunters.


I teach Muzzleloading during Hunter Safety classes and do not understand the instructional scenerio you mentioned. We would never teach this way and teach what you should do rather than what you personally are doing. Not to pick on these fellas but we have problems teaching Buckskinners.
The NMLRA presents an excellent course as well as other groups.


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Old August 10, 2008, 12:20 PM   #7
Wild Bill Bucks
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When I got my first Thompson Encore .50 cal , I started out with loose powder, at 90 grains.(Pyrodex select) It took me quite a while to get the right sabots, bullet, powder combination, but I finally got the rifle to shoot clover leaf groups at 100 yards.

Then the pellets came out. I thought they were the greatest thing since sliced bread. No measuring, no muss, no fuss. Then I went to the range. I quickly noticed that the pellets at 100 grains didn't seem to kick my shoulder as hard as the loose powder, and I immediately thought that was great also. But as I shot through the day, I noticed that the difference in the kick to my shoulder, was having a definite effect on my groups. I shot ALL day, and could not get my groups better than 3". I figured I was just having a bad day, and went back home, cleaned up my rifle, and decided to go back the next day and try again.

I did not re-adjust my scope because the rifle was shooting so good, that I did not feel it was necessary.

The next day I went back to the range, and the same thing happened. I could not get my rifle to shoot any better than 3" groups, and some groups would be spread as much as 5".

I then decided to re-clean the rifle at the range, and try the loose powder again. As soon as I put the first three rounds down range, they were touching each other, dead center.

I took the pellets back home, and put each pellet on my scale, and quickly discovered that no two pellets weigh the same. Now I realize that the box says 100 grain EQUIVALENT , but I just could not get comfortable with the idea that every 2 pellets would weigh different. I gave the extra two boxes of the high priced pellets to one of my buddies, and never looked back.

I shoot my loose powder at poker chips at 100 yards, and rarely miss one, and the pellets just won't do that for me.

Just my experience with them.
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Old August 10, 2008, 10:17 PM   #8
fastforty
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Quote:
Use the powder with confidence, but remember that it is equal to BP by VOLUME, NOT by weight.
Quote:
black powder is measured by volume and not by weight, fastforty,
Is there an echo in here?
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Old August 11, 2008, 12:55 PM   #9
Wild Bill Bucks
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Most powders in my area get shipped from no telling where, and slammed around during delivery from every dock worker from here to there, so by the time I get it, the granules have been pulverized to the point that they are not the F size labeled.
I started weighing my charges of pyrodex with a powder scale, so I can keep exactly the same load in my rifle. This is what most of the target shooters do, so I figure there must be a good reason for it.

I measure 3 loads by volume and then weigh each load. I then average the three loads, and they come out to 65.7 grains by weight being equal to 100 grains by volume. (RS Pyrodex)

You can not go by this in every instance as some powder will weigh more or less than others. You must get your average from the powder you are shooting, so that it will be right for your rifle.

I then put my charges in vials that I use for speed loaders, and whether I go to the range or I am hunting, I can be assured that each time I load, will be consistent. By having my charges loaded in vials (about 20 vials) I can got to the range without having to worry about measuring between loadings.
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Old August 11, 2008, 01:21 PM   #10
iloveguns1
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Hey Wild Bill where in S.E Okla are you? Somewhere around Clayton or Honobia maybe? I am also in S.E Okla.
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Old August 11, 2008, 03:59 PM   #11
Pahoo
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Keep in mind that B/P and it's substutes, are very forgiving on the grains. Unlike smokeless, you can be a few grains off with little or no difference in performance. Being a little off with smokeless, can be and has been fatal. However, I have visually seen too much of a difference from pellet to pellet and we all know that consistancy is the key to accuracy. Whether you measure or weigh, do it the same way every time as well as how you load. I tap my barrel after loading the powder and my shooting buddy, bounces the buttstock on top of his foot and we do this consistantly.



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Old August 11, 2008, 09:13 PM   #12
rem870hunter
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no echo here, i apologize if there was fastforty.

pahoo, it seemed more informational than instructional about measuring black powder by volume and not by weight, at the m/l safety course. my guess is the guy did not read the booklet well when reveiwing/studying for the written test. i'm not sure. but i am glad the guy did not fire with the overcharge of powder. it may have been a disaster.

wild bill, never thought about weighing each pellet to see if there is any weight differences. i may try it.

i did fire a few loads of loose powder to see if accuracy was different. using 80 gr. for 2 shots and 90 gr. for 2 shots. at 100 yards. the 80 gr. shots went 6" low, the 90 gr. shots went 4" low. will try 100 gr. loads the next time i go to the range. shooting the pyrodex vs. the 777 was much dirtier. it took a little extra cleaning.
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Old August 12, 2008, 09:45 AM   #13
Pahoo
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Quote:
Pahoo, it seemed more informational than instructional about measuring black powder by volume and not by weight, at the m/l safety course.
Not really. In the three state area that that we teach, we only teach to measure by volume and keep it loose. We do not teach by weight as this is a Personal Technique. The process that Wild Bill has mentioned is a great idea and have done this in the past. I confirm every time I change powders but cannot teach it during a Hunter Safety Class. I often wish I could attend other classes to see how we can improve ours. We have a teaching outline that I would like to run past some other instructors.



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Old August 12, 2008, 09:52 AM   #14
Wild Bill Bucks
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iloveguns,

Living in McAlester. Not quite what you would call wilderness country, but right next to it.

Pahoo,

You are right about the teaching thing, and I certainly would not suggest weighing charges to a novice. This technique is strictly for guys who have enough experience with their powder rifles, to want to try it. I shoot a LOT of paper bandits with mine, so I want the most consistent load I can get, and even though it isn't brain surgery, it would not be recommended for the nubee.
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