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Old August 28, 2008, 02:21 PM   #1
threegun
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What Do You Expect The Need For Your Fighting Rifle To Be?

To you guys and gals who are prepared for just about anything, what situation/s do you feel you may have to face with your fighting rifle?

In what order do you put the following attributes for your fighting rifle (most important first)? amount of ammo that can be carried for it, speed of followup shots, ability to penetrate cover, and stopping power.

I'm going to assume that the platform is reliable, accurate, and durable.

For me its riots, looters, and gang trouble.

My list was speed of followups, ammo that can be carried, stopping power, penetration of cover. I'm having a change of heart though. I really am having difficulty thinking this through. I'm torn as to how big a factor penetration might be given the urban environment.

Need some thoughts....
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Old August 28, 2008, 02:42 PM   #2
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If we're talking riots, looters, and gang members I would have to go with my AR - 15 (M4 type). Over penetration could probably be an issue but...

- It looks MEAN, so theres a little more psych. effect on an angry mob or gang
- High capacity mags are a plus for obvious reasons
- Ammo is relativly cheap and 5.56 NATO should be available
- Easy to maintain and repair if needed... rugged
- good accuracy within a few hundred yds
- M4 type is also good for CQB.
- Flashlight and other attatchments would be handy.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents! Second in line would be my 10/22
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Old August 28, 2008, 05:18 PM   #3
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The rifle is just a tool. I am capable of handling any situation with a variety of rifles. So for me the attributes don't change based on the need.
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Old August 28, 2008, 07:35 PM   #4
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I live on the border. Carjacking by illegals. This is usually very violent and if you drive the border at night you'll witness 2-3 jacks a year. Then Home break in, illegals again and usually at night. Finally gnag bangers, but Salvos or Bloods who are fighting for kids in my community.
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Old August 28, 2008, 07:55 PM   #5
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My go to would either be my m1 carbine or my kel-tec. ammo is lite for both more easily attained for the kt though. both good cqb weapons. however there aren't to many foreseeable situations in the future.

I live in an apt complex in a college part of town so maybe a riot (the drunken kind) but the sight of me with any weapon would probably be deterrent enough. So I think my main go to would be the good ole Mossberg 500.

T
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Old August 28, 2008, 09:07 PM   #6
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If I ever need a long gun for anything it'll most likely be an intruder and the Rem. 870 will be handling the chores. Same for a pack of gang bangers.
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Old August 28, 2008, 10:21 PM   #7
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I like the AR-15 M4 variants, as well as an AK variant if given the choice. The AR for availability of parts/accessories, the AK for toughness and dependability.

I would love to have a combat grade 870 platform for up close work tho, with the appropriate modifications, and save the rifle for the longer range suppression shots.

And a nice bladed or other non-ammo backup is always a plus for when/if supplies run out.
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Old August 28, 2008, 10:51 PM   #8
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My rifle is to fight my way back to my handgun.

No not really, but for me my "fighting" rifle (m4) is more for fun. Yes I have a red dot optic and BUIS, and yes I've taken 'tactical' rifle classes with it. But I really don't think as a civillian, I'll ever need to use it as a weapon to defend myself with, at least not while our society remains intact. Besides, the only time I even have my rilfe with me is when Im at home. If I needed a weapon to use for home defense it wouldn't be my rifle. I'd probably go with either my glock 22 or 12 gauge.
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Old August 28, 2008, 11:02 PM   #9
jrothWA
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Any .30Caliber...

no varmint calibers, especially when varmints are shooting back.
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Old August 29, 2008, 12:12 AM   #10
New_Pollution1086
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Quote:
no varmint calibers, especially when varmints are shooting back.
hasnt the .223 proven itself in the last 40+ years as an efficient man killer?

and i wouldnt wanto to get shot buy a .243 or .22-250.

T
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Old August 29, 2008, 12:34 AM   #11
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i like the idea of my 9mm colt AR for sheer volume, but the enfield 303 would be my choice if i wanted to "reach out and touch somebody"!
most of my "targets" w/b out at the perimeter, so i guess the enfield gets the nod. hey it was good enough for ww2 right?
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Old August 29, 2008, 01:57 AM   #12
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Figure whatever scenario you plan for you will get something else.
What is the best golf club? 5 iron?
I believe we have the best bunch of professional warriors in the world.They are faced with a variety of scenarios every day.I would guess the M-4 with an ACOG or red dot is pretty close to as good as it gets.

Of course,sometimes a 7.62 would be an advantage,or maybe an HK-91.
To cover most bases,most of the time,the M-4
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Old August 29, 2008, 03:43 AM   #13
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Fighting rifles:



I am not really concerned with the possibility of ever having to use my "fighting rifles." I live in a rural area in a part of the country where a severe natural disaster leading to a break down in civil order is extremely unlikely.

Realizing this...

I like stopping power and ability to turn cover into concealment. Of all the scenarios that might cause me to have to use my rifle, none of them require me to by roaming around with only the ammo on my back engaging in massive firefights. Carrying six to eight 30 round mags of 7.62x39 or 20 round mags of 7.62x51 is plenty. If the crap hits the fan that bad, I am finding the quickest way to family property and digging in. I can and do stockpile ammo there. Similarly, the rate of fire I can achieve with either of these is more than adequate for anything I'd need. Suppressive fire an movement is irrelevant. Even if I could do so without risking innocent third parties, this wouldn't be possible. I don't have the manpower to utilize the tactics. Any fire I put out will be aimed. Fire rate and the amount of ammo I can carry is almost completely irrelevant, esp comparing semi-autos with similar magazine capacities. However, the possibility of having to shoot through vehicle bodies, body armor, bricks, and, more likely for this area, large trees is not nearly as far fetched.

And no, after 40+ years, there is still more than adequate evidence to call the fight stopping power of the 5.56 in to question. We don't argue it on this very forum twice a week because nothing exists to the contrary.
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Old August 29, 2008, 07:53 AM   #14
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My choice of a personal rifle is an M4 style AR15. While I have many other rifles this is the first one I grab 99% of the time. Lite weight, compact, accurate and very reliable. I can take this gun apart and fix anything that could ever go wrong with it. This is something I find very important with any rifle intended for long term use.
The chances of being attacked by a gang around here is about as remote as being attacked by a zombie. Civil unrest chances are very low too. Our country community pulls together when something bad happens. My little black rifle does a nice job on deer, coyotes, and wild dogs.
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Old August 29, 2008, 08:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Quote:
no varmint calibers, especially when varmints are shooting back.
hasnt the .223 proven itself in the last 40+ years as an efficient man killer?
Yes...yes it has. Unless of course you are dealing with distances like those you would encountered in the mountains or river basins of Afghanistan. Remember, we are talking about situations that would be encountered here in the States...not overseas in a hostile environment operating in a S&D mode of operation.
Quote:
And no, after 40+ years, there is still more than adequate evidence to call the fight stopping power of the 5.56 in to question. We don't argue it on this very forum twice a week because nothing exists to the contrary.
If that is the case, than going into "combat" (...whatever that might be in a domestic environment) with anything less than a M2 50cal is folly.
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Old August 29, 2008, 08:45 AM   #16
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Any AK-47 variant with the proper hardware gets the job done for me. I'm moving away from FAL's, too much gun. As far as what I would use it for?

Honestly the only situation I can really think of likely to occur in South-West Ohio would be an active shooter. Possibly a riot (we had one of those not too too long ago) but the police are usually pretty on top of that. So yeah, active shooter.
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Old August 29, 2008, 02:15 PM   #17
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My go to long-arms would most likely be my 1897-pump shotgun, or if I ever decide to lay out the cash for more mags, my Saiga 12k auto shotgun. If situation dictates a rifle, my first choice would be one of my lever-action .45's. If things are really nasty, my FNFAL clone, but I doubt it would ever come to that. About the worst I'd have to worry about around here is small-time break-ins, which the shotguns would take care of nicely.
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Old August 29, 2008, 03:30 PM   #18
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Yes...yes it has. Unless of course you are dealing with distances like those you would encountered in the mountains or river basins of Afghanistan. Remember, we are talking about situations that would be encountered here in the States...not overseas in a hostile environment operating in a S&D mode of operation.
Yeah, like this right?



O wait, no you were talking about Afghanistan, not Montana. You're right. A poodle shooter is all anybody needs

Quote:
If that is the case, than going into "combat" (...whatever that might be in a domestic environment) with anything less than a M2 50cal is folly.
Not 8 rounds a second, but we got that covered too:

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Old August 29, 2008, 05:49 PM   #19
threegun
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The rifle is just a tool. I am capable of handling any situation with a variety of rifles. So for me the attributes don't change based on the need.
Yes the rifle is just a tool. If the need leans more toward certain attributes in a cartridge, would it not be prudent to select a cartridge better suited for those needs, assuming your capabilities are the same with both?

I'm just re thinking my needs so that I can choose the more appropriate "tool" in advance.
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Old August 29, 2008, 05:59 PM   #20
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I've owned one .308 military platform rifle, a surplus L1A1 SLR from CAI. That sucker hung up as much as it fired and it was tough to clear. Be careful what system and rifle you choose.
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Old August 29, 2008, 06:00 PM   #21
David Armstrong
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Again, I don't think it matters. 223, 308, 303, 30-06, 30 carbine, 30/30, .22LR. This idea that the caliber is going to make much, if any, difference in the outcome of most situations is just silly.
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Old August 29, 2008, 06:28 PM   #22
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This idea that the caliber is going to make much, if any, difference in the outcome of most situations is just silly.


I disagree
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Old August 29, 2008, 06:51 PM   #23
The Great Mahoo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Micrgunner
I've owned one .308 military platform rifle, a surplus L1A1 SLR from CAI. That sucker hung up as much as it fired and it was tough to clear
I have the same gun and never had any problems with it. Not so much as a miss-feed in the ~5 years I've owned it. Of course, I rarely shoot it anymore, so next time I take it out it may very well fall apart just to spite me.
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Old August 30, 2008, 12:37 AM   #24
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Having a 5.56 and various .30cal & 7.62 for high power

competition.
I prefer the power of the .30 cal, using POA/POI I know that an incapacitating hit occurred.

5.56 simply doesn't do it. If it all I have then it's going to be used.
Look at the different ammo now used, the 55gr original load (supposed to tear an arm off with a shoulder hit), the 69gr penetrator, the 75gr long range.

Look what happen in the "Blackhawk down situation, wrong ammo wasn't delivering the incapcitation, 7.62 shows up no problem.

I'll even take a 30/30 or a M1 Carbine.
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Old August 30, 2008, 01:19 AM   #25
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My first choice would be an AR-type carbine, because of ammo and parts availability and ergonomics. Even in a SHTF situation, I think most engagements will be at relatively close range.

Unfortunately, I live in Kalifornia, and can't own a real AR. Fortunately, I have one at work, and will probably be on duty in any extreme situation anyway.

I've got a CMP Garand and two cans of M2 ball: Good enough.
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