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Old July 29, 2008, 12:57 PM   #1
3gunfreak
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.223 loading problems

I am still honing down my .223 reloading skills. Any suggestions on why it is not extracting easily.

I am dummy loading 64 gr PP and my OAL is perfect. I seated the bullet and ran it completely through my Dillon 650(minus the powder and primer).I checked my case length and headspace after sizing and they were good.


The final test was to load it into the rifle to see if it would load. The round would load but I cannot extract it. The rifle locks up and I have to muscle the bolt to the rear.


Any suggestions?

Thanks
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Old July 29, 2008, 01:18 PM   #2
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Without seeing the rounds and rifle it is hard to say exactly what the problem could be. First, make sure your cases are trimmed to the proper length. Then make a dummy round, and seat a bullet (crimp if you are crimping the bullets).

Several possibilities:
* Cases are too long, forcing the case mouth against the end of the chamber.
* You are not using small base dies and the base of the shell is sticking in the mouth of the chamber.
* You are overcrimping, leaving a small bulge in the neck area, which is binding and not allowing you to extract the round.
* Your die is not adjusted properly, and you are buckling the shoulder of the shell when you crimp, causing the shoulder area to be slightly oversized, binding in the chamber.
* The bullet is seated too far out, engaging the rifling and causing the round to be held in the chamber by interference.

Make a wide stripe down the side of the cartridge with a Sharpie, chamber the round, then look where the mark rubbed off when you extract it.
* If the case is too long, trim your cases.
* If there is a bright area at the case mouth, reduce the crimp.
* If there is a bright area at the head area, switch to small base dies.
* If there is a bright area at the shoulder area, or a micrometer shows a slight bulge, back the crimp die (or seating/crimp die) off.
* If the bullet shows marks from the rifling, seat the bullet deeper.
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Old July 29, 2008, 01:43 PM   #3
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Or to make things really easy, buy a case gauge. IF the round fits a gauge, it will fit in your chamber. Dillon sells them.
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Old July 29, 2008, 02:27 PM   #4
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I measure and trim all of my fired brass. I loaded 7K 223 last year.

1, I have gone to the RCBS Small Base X die for sizing, I have 3 others sitting in their boxes.
2. I use a Redding seater for match ammo, Lee seater for trigger time loads.
3. I use the Lee Crimp.
4. My OAL is 2.245/.

I have 50+ different loads for different powders and you can search here or AR15.com reloading for loads.
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Old July 29, 2008, 06:12 PM   #5
3gunfreak
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I forgot to mention that.

I check my head space and sizing with a case guage before and after I seat and crimp the bullet.

That's what's got me scratching my head.

Thanks for the responsive help.........I am going to try the sharpie trick.


I am all about some tricks of the trade..keep um' coming.

Thanks again
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Old July 30, 2008, 05:29 PM   #6
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What kind of case gage are you using? I find that the Wilson gage works great for me. FWIW, bottleneck case gages aren't "chamber-proofing" case gages, as are straightwall handgun case gages. The Wilson case gage simply tells you if you've bumped the shoulder correctly for proper headspacing and whether your trim length is o.k.

Last edited by Alleykat; August 2, 2008 at 03:50 PM.
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Old July 31, 2008, 06:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
I check my head space and sizing with a case guage before and after I seat and crimp the bullet.
Your cases are too fat!. You have an interference fit. You need to use a small base sizing die.

I just posted a thread with pictures, addressing the issue of small base versus regular dies.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=381786
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Old August 2, 2008, 03:51 PM   #8
Alleykat
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I've successfully load thousands of rounds of .223 for my AR, using both the RCBS X die and a regular old Lee steel die. Never had a problem. Check out the other possibilities before going to the s.b. die.
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Old August 2, 2008, 04:21 PM   #9
Scorch
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Quote:
4. My OAL is 2.245/.
Bingo! Sounds a bit too long since the 64 gr PP bullets have a fairly blunt ogive, you are probably forcing the bullet into the lands. If you are crimping the bullet at the cannelure, trim your brass shorter before crimping, otherwise seat the bullet to 2.230"-2.240".
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Old August 2, 2008, 05:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Bingo! Sounds a bit too long since the 64 gr PP bullets have a fairly blunt ogive, you are probably forcing the bullet into the lands. If you are crimping the bullet at the cannelure, trim your brass shorter before crimping, otherwise seat the bullet to 2.230"-2.240".
Scorch: That is good advice, and something I wish I had thought of. However it is ThreeFeathers who gave a cartridge OAL, not the original poster, 3gunfreak.
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Old August 3, 2008, 04:38 PM   #11
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Maybe too much crimp, been their and done that. Just a thought. I was about ready to throw my new AR in the dirt the first time because I overcrimped.
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Old August 3, 2008, 11:34 PM   #12
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Small base

All good stuff said here. If you do go with the small base make SURE you lube the hell out of it. 1 hr ago nearly got a case stuck and it was covered in lube, maybe I will try that wax. I had the same prob for me it was a world of difference with the small base dies. Good luck.
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Old August 4, 2008, 12:02 AM   #13
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M193, M855, and M262 are all 2.245. Thsy must fit a mag and a belt for the M249.
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Old August 4, 2008, 02:26 AM   #14
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Sharpie

The Sharpie is not a bad idea. However it is much easier, faster, and you get better results if you just "Smoke" the entire case with a candle. Chamber the round then extract, you will quickly notice any markings in the "Smoke". When you chamber the round take the bolt out and line the first letter of the name of the brass in the 12 o'clock position. Then push the round into the chamber with a pencil. Then reinstall the bolt, and close. This way when you take the casing out you will know where in the chamber you are rubbing.

However it could easily be the bullets are seated too deep into the lands, and the bullet is jammed in the lands.

You did not mention whether you were crimping or not. If you are not crimping and the bullets are jammed into the lands then you will pull the case out and the bullet will remain in the lands.

If you are bulging your crimp the you will see that real fast when you "Smoke" your case. Tom.
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Old August 6, 2008, 02:02 PM   #15
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Make sure your size die is adjusted correctly. Then find out if a sized case will chamber and eject correctly. If it does the problem lies else where. If not then make sure your size die is adjusted correctly. The problem you are having is a common with new 223 reloaders because the size die is not seated down far enough on the shell holder.
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Old August 20, 2008, 10:20 PM   #16
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You are using a full length die, not a neck sizer, of course? Even in a bolt gun I think it's a good idea to FL size it the first time.

Another thought; If you have been rolling your own, and firing them without cleaning off the case lube after loading, it could have fouled up your chamber on your rifle. Just a thought.
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Old August 29, 2008, 01:24 PM   #17
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2.25in OAL is what I have been using for Sierra 50gr,55gr,60gr,63gr and 69gr, and Hornady 50gr VMax. With the V-max and BlitzKing, to get 2.25in OAL, I had to shove the bullet in pretty deep compared to non-plastic tipped bullets.

I trimmed all this brass with Lee trimmer, and full-length sizing with Lee die. I've heard of some are able to load for AR with nothing but neck-size, but I am taking my time with semi-auto. Using LC, Remington, WCC, and FC brass, I have had no problems.

I've read lots of people not using crimp, and my store-bought 55gr Federal bulk ammo has no crimp. None of the Sierra's or Vmax I have have cannelures.

Check for dirt and other obstructions.
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Old August 29, 2008, 06:31 PM   #18
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I have some older 64 PP's that have a cannelure. I don't think the latest Win 64 PP's have a cannelure do they? I seat 64 PP's at 2.240" and they shoot fine in different AR's. Don't try crimping if they do not have a cannelure. Winchester data from their 2006 Winchester Reloading Guide recommends 2.120" for the 64 PP but that seems really short. I've never seen where a small base die is necessary for AR loading.
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