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Old July 12, 2008, 11:38 PM   #1
Playboypenguin
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To shoot or not to shoot. That is...oh, you get it.

This has been covered before to one degree or another. It was brought up again in a recent thread and deserves to be covered again.

Which of these statements most fits your philosophy when drawing your gun?

1. Never draw until the last second when there is no other option but to fire immediately.

2. Draw your weapon as soon as a threat reaches a sufficient level and only fire if threat continues.

3. Always fire your weapon if you ever have to draw it...period.

4. I will draw if I have to but would never fire my weapon.

My personal philosophy is to never draw until the threat has reached a critical level; but if you wait until there is no other option than to fire, you have made a serious tactical error.

I believe that pulling my CCW is my next to last resort...firing it is the last resort. I am a civilian engaging in the act of self defense. I am not a samurai warrior.
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Old July 12, 2008, 11:43 PM   #2
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OK, so if you're placing yourself in category #2 above, I'll concur with that too.
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Old July 12, 2008, 11:44 PM   #3
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Yes, I am a #2 type of person.
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Old July 12, 2008, 11:50 PM   #4
MagicMan
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#2
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Old July 12, 2008, 11:55 PM   #5
Rant Casey
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In a defensive situation like being robbed at gun point, their gun is being deflected and mine is coming up and there will be no "freeze" or "stick em up". All they'll get is 3 shots point black from the hip, putting distance between us and firing off the remainder of the rounds in their chest until they drop. Quite a bit of my CCW training is done like that. Other situations warrent different responses, if my life was not in immediate jeapordy or the lives of others, my answer would be a lot different. Someone with a less lethal weapon like a bat or a knife that is a reasonable distance from me would get a warning and I would fire only if I felt my life was in danger and they continued to advance towards me.
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:00 AM   #6
tplumeri
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Yep, been done before, but still a valid question.

Quote:
Draw your weapon as soon as a threat reaches a sufficient level and only fire if threat continues.
I have to go with that. too many folks out there with the "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality. or at least thats what they say...
I'm in the minority of folks here, i dont carry ANY of my pistols with one in the tube. gives me that extra 1/2 second to decide if i'm gonna take another life.
they say that only 1% of folks that carry have actually every fired at another human being in self defense. not to sidetrack your thread, but weve got over 6000 "members", how many of you have fired your CCW in self defense?
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:02 AM   #7
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Quote:
not to sidetrack your thread, but weve got over 6000 "members", how many of you have fired your CCW in self defense?
Hey! Start your own thread, poozer.

BFTR, I have drawn my CCW once never fired it. I have fired a gun in self defense, in the line of duty, but not my civilian CCW.
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:04 AM   #8
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I would say I'm a #2, but I study philosophy on a regular basis and have to ask what does "sufficient" mean? Who's philosophy are we going by? (I'm a Nietzsche fan myself).
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:07 AM   #9
Rant Casey
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You say you don't carry with one in the chamber, but what if your life is dependent on having a gun ready like in a deflect / fire situation? Seconds count.

As far as firing at someone with a ccw, no never have and hope to never have to do so. I have unfortunetly fired a large surplus of 5.56 at other human beings overseas and I'll tell you one thing, my weapon was loaded. It just seems like a saftey that could cost you your life. Use your own judgement, but why hinder yourself?
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:09 AM   #10
Scattergun Bob
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Hi Playboy

I would like to believe I am a #2 kind of guy. That said, there are issues to address.

1st - as defensive based shooters responding to threats, we are already out of time in a way. Don't underestimate that 2/5th second reaction time, it puts us way behind our enemy. In the academy it was drilled into our heads that the best draw was the gun already in our hands / on the other hand I think you and I live in the same state and the state frowns on civilians brandishing. it is a very sharp sword edge to walk on.

I am sure others will address more.

Of the options you have presented, # 2 is the most usable for me.

Good Luck & Be Safe
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:13 AM   #11
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I concur

Quote:
2. Draw your weapon as soon as a threat reaches a sufficient level and only fire if threat continues.
PBP the Yankee Marshall

"Don't make me draw down on you varmint"-PBP
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Last edited by nate45; July 13, 2008 at 12:48 AM. Reason: I unintentionally demoted PBP to Sheriff
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:26 AM   #12
huchahuchax
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That "Wonder Woman" doll is the shiznit!
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Old July 13, 2008, 12:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
PBP the Yankee Sheriff
It is "The Yankee Marshal" not sheriff.



Quote:
That "Wonder Woman" doll is the shiznit!
It is not a doll. It is an animation maquette.
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Old July 13, 2008, 01:05 AM   #14
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Quote:
It is "The Yankee Marshal" not sheriff.
Sorry for the unintentional demotion.
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Old July 13, 2008, 01:06 AM   #15
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Quote:
what does "sufficient" mean?
That would open to each person's discretion. You might want to make sure to set your standards high though, since you will most likely be held accountable by a jury.

I myself would have to have reason to believe someone possess both the desire and the ability to do me serious lasting harm and be acting upon that desire.
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Old July 13, 2008, 01:17 AM   #16
nate45
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Sufficent

Quote:
I believe that pulling my CCW is my next to last resort...firing it is the last resort.
Exactly, look at the weapons most of us have, the ammunition we load them with, the range practice we do.

If we ever fire our weapons its probably going to be more than a trip to the hospital for the BG.

It is a deadly serious event, I've drawn my pistol twice over the years with the intent to use it and thankfully I did not have to, its presence was enough. I hope I never have to draw on a human again the rest of my life. I look for new ways to avoid trouble all the time.
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Old July 13, 2008, 01:26 AM   #17
huchahuchax
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Quote:
That would open to each person's discretion. You might want to make sure to set your standards high though, since you will be most likely be held accountable by a jury.
I hear ya.
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Old July 13, 2008, 03:06 AM   #18
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Hey! Start your own thread, poozer
poozer?!!
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Old July 13, 2008, 08:00 AM   #19
KMO
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Rant Casey wrote,
Quote:
Someone with a less lethal weapon like a bat or a knife that is a reasonable distance from me would get a warning
...and then wrote,
Quote:
You say you don't carry with one in the chamber, but what if your life is dependent on having a gun ready like in a deflect / fire situation? Seconds count.
My local CCW instructor provided an excellent illustration for a class on this very subject. He wanted to point out the fallacy of thinking that a knife held by the BG somehow gives a time advantage to the armed home defender. While our "good guy" was giving verbal warnings from 20 feet, our instructor illustrated that the BG was able to cover that 20 feet with his knife in under 2 seconds, even faster if knows how to throw the thing. The point...don't be fooled by TV/movie scenes that illustrate poor decisions about warning time. Seconds really do count, and a defender must think this out in advance. 20 feet is no great distance.
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Old July 13, 2008, 08:09 AM   #20
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#2. If it happens (I truely hope it never does) , safety would be dropped upon completion of draw. Finger will be on trigger....then it is up to the BG.
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Old July 13, 2008, 08:28 AM   #21
xrocket
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#2 ... with the option of changing my perception and subsequent resulting action by reformulating a policy for employing situational ethics upon rationalization of perceived success and or failure rates within the time space continuum of the omnipresent conflict resolution matrix.

... or, whatever.
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Old July 13, 2008, 09:17 AM   #22
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#2 Draw when you perceive a threat. I draw, and release the safety upon completion. Use the drawn gun and verbal commands, "Stop or I'll shoot!", to force the perp to back down or to effect your escape. If the threat escalates, do not hesitate to pull the trigger. Don't wait until the last moment to draw, you may not have a last moment at that point.

Scenario:
A perp approaches with a gun in his hand, pointing at the ground. You draw yours and point it at his chest. He stops. "Drop the gun!" over and over. As long as he's not advancing and hasn't raised the gun, there's no need to fire. He's in your sights, if he even twitches that gun hand or continues to advance, you have him cold.

The simple appearance of a potential victim who's suddenly armed may be enough deterrent. Like I've said, crooks like it easy.

Drawing is a first resort, firing is a last resort.
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Old July 13, 2008, 09:24 AM   #23
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Quote:
how many of you have fired your CCW in self defense?
Drawn once, not fired - .357 snubbie, did not cock the hammer but my finger was on the trigger. Did not draw with the immediate intent of using it, but would have if the two perps had not backed down. They backed down and left, I re-holstered and started breathing again.
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Old July 13, 2008, 10:39 AM   #24
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#2

In my state we can brandish a firearm to create the apprehension that it will be used in a situation that one can legally use force or deadly force. Draw to low ready with the intent to fire if situation further deteriorates during the draw or presentation.

I actually had to draw my weapon last week...thank God I have trained to follow those rules if there is not a weapon pointed directly at me. I will probably get flamed but here's what happened.

I stopped at a grocery store gas station kiosk, if I'm just buying a soda or cigarettes I'll stop here on my way to work since I can just pull up, get out, get what I need, and get right back in. This day I was paying with cash and there was no one in line or and just a couple at the pump, so I pulled up and left my truck running while I got out.

While I'm reaching in my pocket to get my money in my peripheral vision I saw someone running behind me and a look of shock on the face of the cashier at the kiosk. I turned, saw someone opening my door, and about to get in. I drew to low ready (finger off trigger), and gave a command to stop. In this process I could not see a face, just an outline through my tinted windows, I was looking for hands. He stopped, put his hands in front of him and came out of my car slowly. After the individual cleared the door with his hands up I looked at the face and saw a family member of my wife with a half smile half bewildered look. I guess he thought it would be funny to "scare" me.

I don't advertise my CCW status to everyone but this guy knows I carry. After I told the lady at the kiosk that calling 911 wasn't necessary I proceeded to curse him and let him know how lucky he (or really we) was that my son wasn't in the car. I likely would have skipped the warning and just shot.

I might have to get a sign to put on my windows that say "Joke Free Zone". I fielded several phone calls from angry family members that day, they all calmed down when I asked them what they'd want me to do if that was a real thief, murderer, rapist, or kidnapper. Then they pretty much agreed that the guy was an idiot for playing a joke like that.
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Old July 13, 2008, 03:38 PM   #25
nate45
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Quote:
I will probably get flamed but here's what happened.
I do not see why you should get flamed. I would have done the same. Was not a funny joke.
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