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Old July 24, 2008, 12:24 PM   #1
dasss
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new shooter

hey guys, i am new to the shooting scene. I recently bought my first gun (Taurus PT 111 Pro 9MM ) and i have been going to an outdoor range here in central FL. Now i am having some problem with hitting the target bullseye,( i am hitting about 4-6" lower) now i did some reserch found a target that helps with the problem, see attached, also found that the gun sight is allined for DOT ( dead on target ) not 6 o'clock. so i have to cover the target with the front dot, ( tried that Still no better ) now the guy at the range was helping me, very grateful for that he says that i am pulling the trigger too hard ,thats y the gun is heardin down when it fires , but i cant seem not to cause the trigger is doubble action and its stiff . Could that be the reason , ? because the gun is new ? or is it me . will i get better with time ? thanks in advance. any advice will be grateful.
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Last edited by dasss; July 24, 2008 at 12:30 PM. Reason: sorry guys wrong section
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Old July 24, 2008, 12:30 PM   #2
Sparks2112
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How far away was the target? Most fixed sights are going to be putting you on target at 25 yards or so. If you're shooting at 7 yards you're going to be hitting low.
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Old July 24, 2008, 12:40 PM   #3
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Practice, practice, practice. Get Mas Ayoob's Combat handguns, read it and do the drills. My son carries the same gun you do and drives tacs with it. But, he's been shooting handguns since he was 5. The double action will smooth out.
1. Dry fire, watch your front sight and try to keep it steady.

2. Don't hurry on the range, start close, 7 meters, then 10, then 15. You don't have to shoot any further with that handgun as it is a CCW piece not a target pistol.

3. As you improve then do double tap drills, 2 target drills.

4. Presentation, draw slowly and smoothly untill you have it down then increase speed. You are not going against Wyatt Earp, I had to draw 2 years ago and just suddenly found my Sig 229 in my hand. It will become an unconscious moter skill.
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Old July 24, 2008, 12:46 PM   #4
dasss
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i was shootin at 7 yards , but the guy at the range set up a 3 yard for me and still i was about 2 " below bullseye , i dont think i am a bad shooter , nor a good shooter , but i shoot a 22 LR with scope @ 100 yards with 4" group , .
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Old July 24, 2008, 01:25 PM   #5
Sparks2112
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Your bullets are going to impact low at anything underneath 25 yards or so with the fixed sights that come on your pistol. You can either A) adjust accordingly. B) Invest in some adjustable sights. It is NOT a problem with your technique, squeezing the trigger too hard, or any other foolishness.
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Old July 24, 2008, 03:17 PM   #6
dasss
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more info

the guy at the range that was helping me , used my gun at the same distance and shot dead on target, at a 2" circle 5 times
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Old July 24, 2008, 03:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
the guy at the range that was helping me , used my gun at the same distance and shot dead on target, at a 2" circle 5 times
I can't think of any modern firearm that will come from the factory zeroed for 3 to 7 yards. Rounds would be striking low IMO. If he grouped them all in the center it sounds like to me he'd have been aiming high. That having been said.

Is there anyone else out there that agrees/disagrees with me? I'm not the be all end all to any conversation, so I'd welcome some input from some other members.
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Old July 24, 2008, 04:30 PM   #8
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Practice, practice practice

I'm an old shooter who took a 20 year break while getting married and growing some kids. Now back, i find i don't shoot as well as i used to do. Long guns i'm still awfully dangerous, but the dead center accuracy with my pistols (autos and wheels) is only just starting to come back. So i can sympathize.

Technique is obviously important - listen to the instructor. My son (19) can't hit a barn's backside with a pistol despite being very accurate with scoped rifles. He has good posture, but he still jerks the trigger and squeezes the grips like a vise because a pistol intimidates him. Give him time.

How is your grouping? If you're 6 inches low, but tightly grouped, it doesn't sound like the culprit is your technique. If your groups are wild, go back to the basics and have the instructor give you as much advice as you (or he) can stand. and practice practice practice.
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Old July 25, 2008, 08:55 AM   #9
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It's also worth noting that rifles and pistols are similar only in the sense that they throw lead out of a tube - the techniques are going to vary greatly. Shooting a .22 100 yards with a rest is one skill, while bullseye shooting with a handgun at 10 yards is equally difficult but totally different.

If you can have the sights adjusted, you might benefit from getting them set to 6:00 as this setup allows you to see your target instead of guessing where it is under the sight. It's more important at slightly longer ranges as the front sight of a pistol will generally cover a good portion of your target at more than a few yards.

As stated above - if your shots are all over the place then you need to work on your trigger pull, grip, stance, breathing, stability, etc. If they're grouped tight but low, just adjust your sights or point of aim to compensate. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results...
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Old July 25, 2008, 12:18 PM   #10
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Technique IS everything. I suggest that you are pulling down hard anticipating the shot. Dry fire, make your pull smooth, this is a common problem and it will cease. In a combat situation shooting low is OK, you'll be so excited you won't see the sights anyway.
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Old July 25, 2008, 02:05 PM   #11
Erik
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A helpful article, perhaps:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/tactics_t...ombatg_100306/
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Old July 25, 2008, 08:38 PM   #12
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dasss

Seven yards is a good place to start with your pistol. Don't start live fire form the holster at first. Become comfortable with your pistol. Know how to operate the manual safety and disengage it once your muzzle is down range. You are in control of your pistol, the shot should break when you intend it to. If you are "surprised" when it breaks you are not in control. 80% of your control should come from your weak hand. Your strong hand should hold the pistol with enough force to keep from dropping it. Also, your strong hand index (trigger) finger should only pull the trigger. Make sure it does not touch any part of the frame while pulling the trigger. The farther down on the trigger, the more leverage you will gain. Don't begin pulling and stop during the pull. All the way to the rear with even pressure, release the trigger at the same rate until it resets. The trigger style will make no difference if you pull the same way every time. The only difference will be some actions take more, or travel farther to fire and reset. Consistency is the key, whether fast or slow, just remember to pull and reset the trigger at the same rate.There is no "double tap" you should always be in control of your pistol. See the sights, pull the trigger,reset at the same rate. You will learn to pull faster as skill increases. You will need your front sight!!! Whether slow fire, or LATER on fast multiple target shooting. Use the sights!! Shooting from retention is one skill you will need, but not the only one.
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Old July 25, 2008, 11:21 PM   #13
Erik
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Not to nit pick, but some of what that advice will raise some eyebrows.

Like:

"You are in control of your pistol, the shot should break when you intend it to."

"If you are "surprised" when it breaks you are not in control."

"80% of your control should come from your weak hand."

"The farther down on the trigger, the more leverage you will gain."

"The trigger style will make no difference if you pull the same way every time."

While some of it, pretty much the rest, will induce nods in agreement.
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Old July 26, 2008, 09:59 PM   #14
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WOW!! Thanks erik, I had no idea.
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Old July 27, 2008, 04:28 PM   #15
Erik
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Or, it is possible you have made some break throughs the industry is as yet unaware of. Package them along with your abilty focus on sights and targets discussed elswhere in the forums and you may have the means competing favorably in the cutthroat, and lucrative, world of Tier 1 training.
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Old July 27, 2008, 04:48 PM   #16
Erik
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Dasss,
Search for threads started by forumite Lurper. (Shootingcoach on youtube.) He's got some very helpful videos and is better than most at conveying what he's trying to.

Two, in particular, which may be helpful given where it sounds like you are at:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=240313

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=290680

Disclaimer: I have no relationship, personal or business wise, with Lurper. He's just a guy trying to help folks out whom I think does a good job at it.
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Old July 28, 2008, 07:26 PM   #17
tirvin73
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I have no need to be a so called "instructor". I offer what I KNOW works for me. If a new shooter takes my advise and finds something they can use, good. I have learned from experience. Not some puffed up "instructor" that claims this way, not that. Do this not that. I offered what I have learned over the years. Not some cop out article written by a so called "gun writer". Or a link to a video. Take what you need, leave the rest.
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Old July 28, 2008, 10:13 PM   #18
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Actually one of the drills I got from Brian Enos was to let the support hand and arm give 60-80% of the pressure. I poo pooed it befroe I tried it and it works. Try it.
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Old July 29, 2008, 06:21 AM   #19
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The way I like to look at it is like this.....you put the sights on target (properly aligned).......you now begin to apply steady pressure....... remember the sights will be dancing around the bullseye as you pull the trigger and this is normal.........continue to apply steady pressure until the gun fires understanding that the sights will never be dead on the bull as long as you are unsupported and this is normal.

See folks I have helped seem to try to get the sights to stop or slow tremendously on the bull before snatching the trigger to try to pull it fast while the sights are aligned.....this is not correct and will cause the rounds to be pulled or pushed.

Slow steady pressure is the key. Fight to keep the sights aligned as close to the bull as possible while doing so.....bang you just hit the bull or real darned close.
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Old July 29, 2008, 07:15 AM   #20
dasss
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This Post Is Close

Thanks to all that help.
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Old July 29, 2008, 01:22 PM   #21
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welcome dass...hope everything goes well for you
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Old August 9, 2008, 12:57 AM   #22
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Breathe..... so many new shooters hold their breath... The brain doesnt work very well without oxygen. Also if you ever get in a shooting situation that isnt paper targets breathing helps you cope with some of the other stressors your body is going through.

Relax and have fun.... even if you are having trouble .. tensing up and beating yourself up sure doesnt make shooting a enjoyable recreation. The tension also might be screwing up your basic mechanics...
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Old August 10, 2008, 06:13 AM   #23
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With lungs expanding and contracting its kinda hard to shoot straight don't cha think? Pause the process or empty half the lungs content then pause.
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