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Old July 24, 2008, 12:22 PM   #1
rsgraebert
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IWB open carry methodology

Not 100% sure where this belongs, but it's all about handguns so let's start it over here.

I have IWB holsters as that is the only way I tend to carry my weapon. They don't have a thumb break or any retention system other than friction and self awareness. When there's a shirt over the weapon, I am completely unconcerned as I trust my holsters to retain the weapon throughout my mild-to-moderate physical activity (up to and including a short jog through the rain, etc).

Here's the conundrum: Here in Ohio, we're allowed to carry openly. On a hot day when I'm wearing work clothing (dockers and a polo or short sleeve button down), I hate to untuck the shirt. I modified my 1911 to be far more comfortable (no more airplane wing sized Springfield ambi safety, I put a nice colt defender style on it thank the gods) but it's still not a pleasant thing to have against your bare skin in 95 degree summer weather. I am still of the mindset that I would be remiss if an assailant was not sufficiently incapacitated by a smaller weapon, I would be responsible (and dead) for it because I compromised on a pocket gun. Therefore, if I am leaving work and running errands or what have you, I tend to open carry in places like stores and gas stations.

It's never been an issue - other than a few gawkers, no one tends to even notice. I don't know or care what people assume, but they seem to figure that anyone carrying a firearm around without attempting to hide it is probably allowed to do so and my style of dress does not contradict that idea. However, back to the problem at hand: There is no retention device on an IWB holster. I keep a good sense of distance and intent regarding the people near me to avoid a grab and honestly I think it would be a pretty stupid criminal who actually decided to try to take the weapon from me even by surprise (this is all broad daylight of course), but I am wondering if the folks here think it to be irresponsible to carry an unrestrained, visible weapon on your person.

On that line of thought, I am also wondering what law enforcement would think of such a thing. The weapon is clearly in a holster and the Ohio laws do not specify any retention methods required beyond the need for some kind of genuine holster (to my knowledge).

Thoughts? Should I be taking the time & money to swap out IWB with a retentive holster for these sorts of days? Do you think a full OWB holster would go over better, even though it would hang a big shiny stainless firearm where the world can get a better look at it? Can you find a good IWB holster with an easy-to-use retention device for a 1911?
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Old July 24, 2008, 12:46 PM   #2
Sparks2112
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I think you'd be fine using whatever you have already. That having been said. An added retention device couldn't hurt, and might do some good in the right set of circumstances.

RE: The Police
If it's a holster you're fine.
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Old July 24, 2008, 12:50 PM   #3
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The cheap IWB leathers from Binanci have certain ones with a thumb break. Holds very firm and makes me uber confident.
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Old July 24, 2008, 01:36 PM   #4
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How about a tuckable IWB?
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Old July 24, 2008, 02:36 PM   #5
rsgraebert
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My IWBs are tuckable, but that doesn't address hot / humid weather & weapons pressing against the skin. It's also quite a bit error prone and slower to draw (for me).
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Old July 24, 2008, 03:34 PM   #6
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big mistake carrying in the open in ohio. it has done been proven that one phone call to the police, causes a person to spend some jailtime and a life savings fighting charges of inducing panic which is a felony. This has happened twice in ohio and many ohio residents have seen it on 10 tv and channel 6 news. Its not worth the trouble. Yes you can open carry in ohio but if someone is in fear from the sight it is then inducing panic. and could cost you owning not owning a gun for the rest of your life. and if you do not believe me ask your ccw instructor. He should be able to give you the exact incidents!
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Old July 24, 2008, 03:41 PM   #7
davlandrum
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Maybe try a t-shirt under the polo? a tank top style one? Then you could leave the polo untucked, with the t-shirt keeping you comfortable?
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Old July 24, 2008, 03:48 PM   #8
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I would think any IWB holster would be fine. Have you looked at the Crossbreed holsters? For summer carry it prevents the gun from actually touching your skin. I find it very comfortable.
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Old July 24, 2008, 06:30 PM   #9
cnutco
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Quote:
Maybe try a t-shirt under the polo? a tank top style one?
This is what I have done in the past with the hot days down here in GA. Works fine for me. I am always looking for better holsters though.

This is great priced Unkle Mikes

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Old July 24, 2008, 10:20 PM   #10
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Look for a holster with a large backing, like a CTAC Minotaur or a Crossbreed (Their kydex clips have SUCKED for me, but the holster has been excellent...the C or J clips are probably better suited for your use). The Crossbreed will be back in carry rotation if I can find a way to make some leather loops for it instead of that stupid plastic stuff...there is absolutely no part of the gun against you. It's also more comfortable if you're wearing a "wife beater" or A-shirt.

Both of these holsters have a large chunk of leather in the back with a kydex shell clamped onto them that hold the gun. I believe both have interchangeable clip systems that are tuckable, adjustable, and customizable to your needs.

If you are going to OC why not get a cheaper OWB, crossdraw, or pancake holster? 50 dollars on Ebay will get you a nice handmade leather holster for common guns.
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Old July 25, 2008, 01:10 AM   #11
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This is great priced Unkle Mikes

Just another man's opinion, but those Uncle Mike nylons are WAY too flexible (even with a belt squeezing it against your body) to use with carry. I'd mexican carry before using another IWB Uncle Mike's. My experience was obviously very bad
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Old July 25, 2008, 06:20 PM   #12
Erik
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"I am wondering if the folks here think it to be irresponsible to carry an unrestrained, visible weapon on your person."

I do not think that it is necessarily irresponsible to open carry in a holster without a retention devise.

"I am also wondering what law enforcement would think of such a thing."

See above.
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Old July 25, 2008, 06:28 PM   #13
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Doubled
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Last edited by Erik; July 25, 2008 at 11:29 PM.
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Old July 25, 2008, 06:30 PM   #14
Erik
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Now that said, it is perhaps a better idea to consider a slight wardrobe adjustment by adding a light beater undershirt and running the cover garments untucked. The botton down in particular can still look fairly presentable, even untucked. But, I understand if you don't want to, fashion being a personal thing.
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Old July 25, 2008, 08:17 PM   #15
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Quote:
big mistake carrying in the open in ohio. it has done been proven that one phone call to the police, causes a person to spend some jailtime and a life savings fighting chargeinducing panic which is a felony. s of This has happened twice in ohio and many ohio residents have seen it on 10 tv and channel 6 news. Its not worth the trouble. Yes you can open carry in ohio but if someone is in fear from the sight it is then inducing panic. and could cost you owning not owning a gun for the rest of your life. and if you do not believe me ask your ccw instructor. He should be able to give you the exact incidents!
:barf::barf: A criminal offense has to be committed for an inducing panic charge to stick
, Open carrying a gun is not a crime unless you are under a disability.........

Actually the inducing panic charge should be stuck on the person making the 911 call............(1) Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;

Quote:
2917.31 Inducing panic.
(A) No person shall cause the evacuation of any public place, or otherwise cause serious public inconvenience or alarm, by doing any of the following:

(1) Initiating or circulating a report or warning of an alleged or impending fire, explosion, crime, or other catastrophe, knowing that such report or warning is false;

(2) Threatening to commit any offense of violence;

(3) Committing any offense, with reckless disregard of the likelihood that its commission will cause serious public inconvenience or alarm.

(B) Division (A)(1) of this section does not apply to any person conducting an authorized fire or emergency drill.

(C)(1) Whoever violates this section is guilty of inducing panic
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Old July 26, 2008, 11:08 AM   #16
rsgraebert
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I would have to agree with Splat on the inducing panic phenomenon. I admit, my CCW instructor told us that in his opinion, while legal, open carry is a bad idea "in this state". Generally though, it's pretty widely ignored and I've not had a bad experience yet. In my city, the police actually circulated an internal memo indicating that officers are -not- to trouble open carrying citizens unless the individual in question is acting unnaturally or committing a crime.

Obviously that statement is pretty open ended as far as giving the officers power to detain you at their discretion, but the memo did convey the message that open carry is uncommon but legal and it's not grounds for arrest by itself. As far as panicked citizens calling 911...it has happened before (in Ohio, well documented, and usually no long term negative effects for the carrier in question) but it's far from common. The practice of open carry is still fairly uncommon but I do occasionally see someone with a gun and no visible badge. Unfortunate or otherwise, I believe that the average unaware citizen simply assumes that the nonchalant people wearing guns without uniforms are somehow authorized to do so (you don't need authorization in Ohio for loaded unconcealed carry, unless you are in a vehicle).

The worst reaction I've encountered is a twitchy frightened stare, the givers of which I prefer to assume are up to no good in the first place.

Anyway, on the actual topic - seems like most people agree that a thumb break or internal latch aren't really necessary. I more or less felt that way in the first place but it never hurts to get a round of opinions. Thanks!
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Old July 26, 2008, 11:50 AM   #17
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In AZ carry is now so common almost no one looks. My H K P2K has shown a couple of times once a nice lady reached over and pulled my shirt down. Several other times no one noticed. I often walk in Safeway at night without a shirt on but my gun showing in plain sight.
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Old July 27, 2008, 11:31 AM   #18
ActivShootr
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The problem I find with the nylon holsters is in reholstering. The tension of your belt squeezes the holster shut. I prefer good leather with a reinforced opening.
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Old August 6, 2008, 08:49 PM   #19
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I agree that a soft side holster is inadequate. You may lean up against or bump into something that can poke into the soft side holster, find it's way into the trigger guard of your gun and make it go bang in the pocket of your pants. If you are lucky it only makes a hole in your pants.

Don't ask me how I know this can happen.
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