Pietta 1860 Colt ball size? - Page 2

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 01:34 AM

Who out there has a 1858 NMA Euroarms .36? Just loaded this on and the opening of the Chambers are wide , no ring gets made, no shaving.' like the .44's. A good feature. 22gr of BP under a .380" Lee molded by SG ball.
My question was about the loading lever ram...this one is flat unlike the .44's I have. Is an XX7 Hawes L.A. CA Euroarms. It just seemed strange that it was flat...anyone know about it?

SG

Hawg Haggen · July 23, 2008, 01:39 AM

The chamber mouths could be chamfered. Some guys do that to ease loading of conicals. Dunno about Hawes

RPrather · July 23, 2008, 01:46 AM

The volume of lead in a chamber, especially when it is compressed against the chamber wall, dictates the amount of force required to propell it from the chamber if a "given" velocity is required. The fact is... if the charge is constant.. a larger load in the cylinder, compressed only adds friction weight, the load will move slower from the gun.

Keep the same load, but cram more in... slower ballistics.

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 01:48 AM

Yeah they are chamfered that's what I was sayin' ...that it's a good thing, tight after the chamfer.
Hawes L.A. CA was here in 1971 XX7 is the mfg. date...a new 1971 CA Euroarms Rev....I gots it!

SG

Hawg Haggen · July 23, 2008, 01:53 AM

Whatever you wanna think Ron. I'm not arguing about it. I haven't heard anything my .454's have hit complaining about the bullet going too slow after being pushed out of the chamber by 35 grs. of powder

and as long as I can hit a softball sized target at 25 yds. I'm happy.

RPrather · July 23, 2008, 01:57 AM

Hawg, it's simple physics. But all is good:-)

Hawg Haggen · July 23, 2008, 02:00 AM

I'm going to bed now. I'm too tired to argue.

Goodnight Ron, SG

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:03 AM

Tell me if this is right? .454 - .451 = .003 ; .003 / 2 = .0015
.451 - .445 = .006 ; .454 - 445 =.009 a .003 differance right? Both balls will be shaved .001 to .003 reguardless and will be the same size ball in the chamber.

SG

RPrather · July 23, 2008, 02:05 AM

Yes, but even that little bit can make a difference.

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:06 AM

They will be physically the same Ron...think chamber size.

SG

RPrather · July 23, 2008, 02:09 AM

It's about mass in chamber size, and the amount of mass touching the chamber walls, and how deeply, and the distance and size of the charge.

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:09 AM

They will be physically the same Ron...think chamber size. If the balls don't get shave yes you are right more lead, but not that much. At 35gr of BP you wouldn't notice it.

SG

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:12 AM

Nope Ron and that's a fact. We are talkin' about Black Powder C&B Revolvers, not a 155MM SP Howy....

SG

RPrather · July 23, 2008, 02:13 AM

Every micro ounce you notice, always. Everything in this hobby is based on weight and the force required to move it.

RPrather · July 23, 2008, 02:15 AM

Wow, do you even understand the concept of mass, friction, speed?

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:20 AM

That's varmint, or 1000yd target/sniper shooting...I know cause I have done them both. And the Reason I am still doing Black Powder instead of other more complicated shooting is because it is relaxing and not difficult...it's actually very simple.
Messy but fun and simple.

Did you get a hand spring made or one to work on the Navy? Come on up I got some feeler gauge stock I'll make you one...and I think the Uberti hand will work...I had made one for my Uberti Navy, can try it...or I'll make you one.

SG

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:23 AM

yeah Ron I do I'm a Rocket Scientist, been in Aerospace snce 1986 from B1's to SSME, Shuttle Mods, and curently on the LazerJet Program.

SG

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:24 AM

Do you understand shooting Black Powder?

SG

Smokin_Gun · July 23, 2008, 02:28 AM

I'm headin' back to Voy...it's back up.

SG

mykeal · July 23, 2008, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Whatever. Keep on keepin on bro. It ain't worth arguing over.

That's the truth.

RP - go get the data (measured) and publish it: velocity and energy at 25 yards.

Raider2000 · July 23, 2008, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mykeal

That's the truth.

RP - go get the data (measured) and publish it: velocity and energy at 25 yards.

I'm with ya there bud, I've been using .457's in all my .44 caliber C&B revolvers for over 20 years & have allways been able to hit where I was aiming at & yet have plenty of energy to do damage to the target be it paper, metal, clay or an occasional Yote & so far I've yet to have a problem with any of em in that many years associated with using a larger diameter ball than the chamber & I'm no slouch in the powder department either.

Oquirrh · July 23, 2008, 09:14 AM

round, thick shaving rings. I'm guessing .451s would go in with very thin shavings. But don't have any around to try.

As for the above discussion--Couldn't one just measure the chambers?

I couldn't because I don't think my dial caliper is accurate enough. But a smart guy with a micrometer or something?

Speak of the devil, i think my Pietta Rem. NA is a little camfered... it doesn't shave any .454 lead but it's the most accurate of my NAs.

Quote:

Did you get a hand spring made or one to work on the Navy? Come on up I got some feeler gauge stock I'll make you one...and I think the Uberti hand will work...I had made one for my Uberti Na

thanks, I matched the new handspring to the original and it works fine.

Oquirrh · July 24, 2008, 09:43 AM

Quote:

I have a Pietta 1858 and have had great results with .451 Speer balls.

I'll get to test it. When i want to my local shop to stock up on .454 balls they were totally out. so I bought a box of .451 .

Also I'm out of real black powder. And the shops around here only stock Pyro or Triple7.

Hawg Haggen · July 24, 2008, 10:27 AM

If you go with 777 reduce your loads by at least 10%. I use Pyrodex mainly because it's a lot cheaper than anything else, 10 bucks per pound cheaper than 777.

Hawg Haggen · July 24, 2008, 10:37 AM

Quote:

I'm guessing .451s would go in with very thin shavings.

My 58 has .440 lands and .450 grooves with chambers running .449-.450.
My 60 Pietta has .440 lands and .450 grooves with all chambers .450.

A ring of .001 is mighty thin indeed. I'll stick with .454's.

July 23, 2008, 01:34 AM	#26
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Who out there has a 1858 NMA Euroarms .36? Just loaded this on and the opening of the Chambers are wide , no ring gets made, no shaving.' like the .44's. A good feature. 22gr of BP under a .380" Lee molded by SG ball. My question was about the loading lever ram...this one is flat unlike the .44's I have. Is an XX7 Hawes L.A. CA Euroarms. It just seemed strange that it was flat...anyone know about it? SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 01:39 AM	#27
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,252	The chamber mouths could be chamfered. Some guys do that to ease loading of conicals. Dunno about Hawes __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

July 23, 2008, 01:46 AM	#28
RPrather Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	The volume of lead in a chamber, especially when it is compressed against the chamber wall, dictates the amount of force required to propell it from the chamber if a "given" velocity is required. The fact is... if the charge is constant.. a larger load in the cylinder, compressed only adds friction weight, the load will move slower from the gun. Keep the same load, but cram more in... slower ballistics. __________________ --Ron

July 23, 2008, 01:48 AM	#29
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Yeah they are chamfered that's what I was sayin' ...that it's a good thing, tight after the chamfer. Hawes L.A. CA was here in 1971 XX7 is the mfg. date...a new 1971 CA Euroarms Rev....I gots it! SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 01:53 AM	#30
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,252	Whatever you wanna think Ron. I'm not arguing about it. I haven't heard anything my .454's have hit complaining about the bullet going too slow after being pushed out of the chamber by 35 grs. of powder and as long as I can hit a softball sized target at 25 yds. I'm happy. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

July 23, 2008, 01:57 AM	#31
RPrather Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	Hawg, it's simple physics. But all is good:-) __________________ --Ron

July 23, 2008, 02:00 AM	#32
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,252	I'm going to bed now. I'm too tired to argue. Goodnight Ron, SG __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:03 AM	#33
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Tell me if this is right? .454 - .451 = .003 ; .003 / 2 = .0015 .451 - .445 = .006 ; .454 - 445 =.009 a .003 differance right? Both balls will be shaved .001 to .003 reguardless and will be the same size ball in the chamber. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:05 AM	#34
RPrather Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	Yes, but even that little bit can make a difference. __________________ --Ron

July 23, 2008, 02:06 AM	#35
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	They will be physically the same Ron...think chamber size. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:09 AM	#36
RPrather Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	It's about mass in chamber size, and the amount of mass touching the chamber walls, and how deeply, and the distance and size of the charge. __________________ --Ron

July 23, 2008, 02:12 AM	#38
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Nope Ron and that's a fact. We are talkin' about Black Powder C&B Revolvers, not a 155MM SP Howy.... SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:13 AM	#39
RPrather Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	Every micro ounce you notice, always. Everything in this hobby is based on weight and the force required to move it. __________________ --Ron

July 23, 2008, 02:15 AM	#40
RPrather Member Join Date: July 12, 2008 Location: Indiana Posts: 30	Wow, do you even understand the concept of mass, friction, speed? __________________ --Ron

July 23, 2008, 02:20 AM	#41
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	That's varmint, or 1000yd target/sniper shooting...I know cause I have done them both. And the Reason I am still doing Black Powder instead of other more complicated shooting is because it is relaxing and not difficult...it's actually very simple. Messy but fun and simple. Did you get a hand spring made or one to work on the Navy? Come on up I got some feeler gauge stock I'll make you one...and I think the Uberti hand will work...I had made one for my Uberti Navy, can try it...or I'll make you one. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:23 AM	#42
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	yeah Ron I do I'm a Rocket Scientist, been in Aerospace snce 1986 from B1's to SSME, Shuttle Mods, and curently on the LazerJet Program. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:24 AM	#43
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Do you understand shooting Black Powder? SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 23, 2008, 02:28 AM	#44
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	I'm headin' back to Voy...it's back up. SG __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

July 24, 2008, 10:27 AM	#49
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,252	If you go with 777 reduce your loads by at least 10%. I use Pyrodex mainly because it's a lot cheaper than anything else, 10 bucks per pound cheaper than 777. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php