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Old July 22, 2008, 08:21 PM   #1
Oquirrh
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Pietta 1860 Colt ball size?

I picked up an unfired 1860 .44 made by Pietta in 1979. I assume its .454. But I don't have any information with it.

BTW, a 30-year-old unfired Pietta replica (no box) doesn't have any special collector's value does it? 'Cause I hope to bust some caps on it tomorrow.
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Old July 22, 2008, 08:37 PM   #2
Raider2000
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A .454 ball will be a good starting point because most replica .44 caliber revolvers will have chambers ranging .445 - .451 diameter & will take that ball nicely with a ring of lead shaved off for a good seal, some with the smaller chambers will accept the .451 ball & seal nicely but I also have a older 3rd. Model Dragoon that has .453 chambers & require the .457 ball to make a good seal "kinda why I've stuck with the .457 ball mold for so long" but to be honest since you have the revolver there with you, you will have to find out which size it'll take best.

Good luck & safe FUN shooting.
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Old July 22, 2008, 09:22 PM   #3
long rider
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You know all the time i have been on this forum i
keep reading all you guys saying ( i came across
this gun, i got this good deal, some one give me
this good deal,) what the heck, i must be
looking in the wrong state? i more or less
have to pay a arm and a leg to get a good deal
on a hand gun, but i can get good deals on bp
and caps, but sometimes i would like to come
across a really good deal on a smoke pole,
hey just venting my wife says i dont need more
bp pistols, and i say WHOS BOSS.
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Old July 22, 2008, 09:55 PM   #4
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You wont go wrong with .454's.

No value other than what you can get for it.
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Old July 22, 2008, 10:02 PM   #5
mykeal
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There are not generally any premium values attached to unfired Italian replica revolvers except very unusual and rare specimens. You might contact the Replica Percussion Revolver Collector's Association (RPRCA) to find out for sure, however.
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Old July 22, 2008, 10:41 PM   #6
Oquirrh
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thanks... i've got .454 and .457 balls...

Quote:
There are not generally any premium values attached to unfired Italian replica revolvers except very unusual and rare specimens.
What I thought. I just didn't want to be the moron who broke some collector's heart.

Long Rider, relax, I paid real yankee greenbacks for it. It was a fair price that both the seller and I parted friends. I find some "deals" but its usually because I spent time and gas hunting through garage sales and pawn shops. in other words, it woulda been cheaper to buy it at Cabelas. (except I HATE buying new... I just like second-hand stuff.)

In fact, I was a little upset when I looked this 1860 over and saw the nipples, chambers and barrel was pristine. Fortunately, over the years handling had put some small dings, scratches and dust on it. My favorite revs have lots of mileage on 'em and look it.

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Old July 22, 2008, 11:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
I just didn't want to be the moron who broke some collector's heart.
I like doing that. I like making collectors cringe when I tell them about some of the stuff I've fired.

BTW, you need to brown the cylinder pin and hammer on that 58. They look kinda funny next to the rest of it. Other than that they both look good.
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Old July 22, 2008, 11:21 PM   #8
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I have a Pietta 1858 and have had great results with .451 Speer balls. The ring is uniform around the chamber. I don't see why some want a massive ring of lead that needs to be cleaned away when a small ring accomplishes the same thing.

Pyrodex
Wonder Wads
.451 balls
Rem #11 caps

Booooooom
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Old July 22, 2008, 11:27 PM   #9
Oquirrh
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Quote:
BTW, you need to brown the cylinder pin and hammer on that 58. They look kinda funny next to the rest of it. Other than that they both look good.
I need an updated foto. Already browned the cyl. pin and screw heads, but I'm on the fence about the hammer. I think that '58 needs a new hammer spring, but I don't know what Italian manu. it is. Takes Pietta nips, but doesn't have the same dimensions as a Pietta '58 that I have. ??? Absolutely no markings except Navy Arms. Maybe its ASM.

Quote:
I have a Pietta 1858 and have had great results with .451 Speer balls.
Yeah, I had half a box of 451s that seemed to shoot fine out of my Uberti '58.
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Old July 22, 2008, 11:36 PM   #10
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Could be Uberti or ASM. .451's might work ok in one revolver. .454's work in almost ALL revolvers except Rugers. The way I see it is the more lead you shave the more surface you give the rifling.
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Old July 22, 2008, 11:39 PM   #11
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The way I see it is the more lead you shave the more surface you give the rifling

As long as you have a complete ring, it really doesn't make that much difference. If anything, the tighter the ball, the greater the force needed to free it from the cylinder.
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Old July 22, 2008, 11:52 PM   #12
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It's not going to be any tighter if the .451 is a tight fit. The chamber is going to swage them both to the same size. It will make the shaved part longer giving the rifling more bearing surface. Once a ball is loaded it's no longer round. It's more like a conical rounded on both ends. .451 may work fine in your revolver but I have three and only one will shave a full ring with a .451
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:00 AM   #13
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True... but you HAVE increased the mass in the cylinder. If you haven't, then a .451 would have fit just fine. More metal has gone in, compressed size or not, and must be removed by explosive compressive force.

Why not cram a hot dog into it? Why...? You would never get the damn thing out.

In short, all of this influences ballistics.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:10 AM   #14
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Ron use a corn dog and you have a filler

SG
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:12 AM   #15
Hawg
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You're not getting it Ron. When you load a .454 ball you're shaving the excess off. I said swaging, I guess that wasn't exactly right. The point is if a .451 fits tight the .454 isn't going to be any tighter and as for extra mass it's negligible.
However if you have a .451 that only shaves a thin ring it may move under recoil and lock your cylinder up. Some guns can get by with a .451 but of my three only one can. The Pietta manual that came with my 60 Colt recommends a .454 ball.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:12 AM   #16
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LOL.... oh, and let's not forget the mustard.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:18 AM   #17
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Hawg, it would take a very loose load to do what you describe. I have never seen anyone ram a loose ball into a cylinder over a charge.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:20 AM   #18
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...and yes, the 454 is more mass in the cylinder than the 451.. and if it is not, then why bother. I have YET to see a 451 wobble into a cylinder like a marble into a stove pipe.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:20 AM   #19
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Hey if .451 works for you I'm not trying to dissuade you from using them. It's just that .451's don't work for every gun, .454's mostly do.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:23 AM   #20
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I have found that Pietta .44's take a .451" or LEE .452' ball, may take a .454", .36 take a .375", .380"s are too tight but will go in, Uberti .44's take a .454" will take .457", .36 take .380", Euroarms/Armi San Paolo take .457", .36 take .380". Colt & Uberti Dragoons and Walkers take .457" Balls.

Hey there Hawg!

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Old July 23, 2008, 12:24 AM   #21
Hawg
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Quote:
I have YET to see a 451 wobble into a cylinder like a marble into a stove pipe.
I'm not saying they do but I have seen plenty that wouldn't shave a ring with .451's.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:26 AM   #22
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Hawg, LOL.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
I have found that Pietta .44's take a .451"
If that's the case with all Pietta's why does the Pietta manual specify a .454?

Hay SG
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:28 AM   #24
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Hawg, well, because they've tried to standardize everyting into a thirty cent instructional pamplet.
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Old July 23, 2008, 12:32 AM   #25
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Whatever. Keep on keepin on bro. It ain't worth arguing over.
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