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Old July 17, 2008, 09:59 AM   #1
Keltyke
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How to NOT shoot

OK, we've all seen countless threads on what to do if you have to draw. How many, where, tactics, calibers, gun types, etc.

Now, let's see some answers on how to NOT shoot. How to prevent getting into a situation where you're forced to draw. Let's face it, the perfect scenario is one where you get away and no one gets hurt. I'll start with a couple.

BE ALERT: Know what's going on around you at all times. Know who's around you at all times.

And following on that one...

If you see a bad scene developing, GET OUT. Drive off, walk away - separate yourself.

Now, let's hear some more.
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Old July 17, 2008, 11:13 AM   #2
cyprian
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Don't go to bars. My number #1 rule.

Watch your mirrors at traffic lights, and make sure you can see the back tires of the car ahead of you (room to maneuver).
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What I want, is for every greasy, grimy tramp to arm himself with a knife or a gun, and stationing themselves at the doorways of the rich, shoot or stab them as they come out.
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Old July 17, 2008, 11:31 AM   #3
Lavid2002
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One from the marines-
*Be polite, be respectfull, but have a plan to kill everyone you meet at all times.
Or something allong those things dont quote me word for word : D

P.S. isnt this a thread of what NOT to do? A little confused because you started it out by saying what to do. Just wondering im not trying to be smart.
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Old July 17, 2008, 11:37 AM   #4
cyprian
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Lavid

I like that! It's exactly right. If you think of yourself as representing more than just yourself, I think that goes a long way.

Also, it's what to do in order to avoid having to do something averse.
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What I want, is for every greasy, grimy tramp to arm himself with a knife or a gun, and stationing themselves at the doorways of the rich, shoot or stab them as they come out.
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Old July 17, 2008, 12:20 PM   #5
superfast61821
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totally agree.

I really liked your post about having a plan on how to eliminate every one you come in contact with.

When I started my LE training for approaching vehicles on traffic stops my instructor told me just that. He said before you even walk up to a vehicle imagine how you would kill every last person in that vehicle because you might have to do just that.
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Old July 17, 2008, 12:21 PM   #6
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What not to do:::::
Never get so involved with what you are doing that you forget to pay
attention to your surrounds and what is going on around you.
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Old July 17, 2008, 12:25 PM   #7
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observe your surroundings and think of what if...

Use the force continuum...know when to leave or to defend, and to use the min amount force needed.

Words can bring on calm or bring rage in any situration.

If you are wrong say sorry I am a fault...I cutoff people while driving and apologize to them after knowing I did wrong, might be called a few words but it brings a dangerious stituration to an end quickly..
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Old July 17, 2008, 12:40 PM   #8
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Do Not:
  • Go somewhere you wouldn't be willing to go to unarmed, unless you absolutely have to.
  • Get into verbal confrontations with anyone for any reason. Whatever it is likely doesn't matter. If It does, call the cops.
  • Try to detain someone for any crime short of murder / attempted murder.
  • Associate with people that you know to be narcotic users, even if they are recreational users.
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Old July 17, 2008, 01:37 PM   #9
BigDaddy
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Quote:
Don't go to bars. My number #1 rule.
Ditto

--Dave
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Old July 17, 2008, 02:17 PM   #10
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Quote:
Don't go to bars. My number #1 rule.
Ditto

--Dave
Double Ditto--- Been to a bar LITERALLY once in in my life. The evening ended with a fight over a racial comment made by a drunk college kid and about 15 cops with guns drawn. This was in a college town, not known for violence in ANY way.
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Old July 17, 2008, 02:19 PM   #11
The Great Mahoo
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Quote:
Don't go to bars. My number #1 rule.
Just find nicer bars. I love hanging out in the local pubs and have never had any trouble of any kind. From private clubs to holes-in-the-wall, theres often a great time to be had with no sign of danger or trouble. Stay away from seedy joints and you'll be fine.

Just remember: Alcohol and firearms don't mix. If you're going on a bender, leave your gun in the safe.
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Old July 17, 2008, 02:57 PM   #12
Brian Pfleuger
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Stay away from seedy joints and you'll be fine.
The "seedy joint" that caused my trouble was on Main St in a small city of 13k people with a murder rate numbered by the DECADE, 300yds from two police stations (city and county).

But in principle, I'd agree.
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The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
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Old July 17, 2008, 04:08 PM   #13
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Nah, I break that rule all the time Besides, we don't have "nice" bars around here. Are you kidding me? This is pretty rural. "Urban" up here is Oak Harbor. Well, a good reason for not gg to bars, if you are a carrier, is you can't carry in a bar. Kinda defeats the purpose. But heck. A dive is expensive enough, a "nice" bar would just jack up the price. Why do that? And rich people are a-holes too! I can get a 6 and drink at home with my wife, and have a nicer time. I can just see it--

"Honey, let's go to Harry's and see how drunk we can get and still stay in Condition Yellow!"
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What I want, is for every greasy, grimy tramp to arm himself with a knife or a gun, and stationing themselves at the doorways of the rich, shoot or stab them as they come out.
Lucy Parsons
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Old July 17, 2008, 06:57 PM   #14
Erik
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Don't go to stupid places, to do stupid things, with stupid people.

Whoever said that, or whatever the exact quote happens to be if I fudged it, has a better than average grasp of the topic.

Of course, there is a certain assumption that the definition of "stupid" is known.
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Old July 17, 2008, 07:42 PM   #15
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Stay away from "Stop and Robs" like 7-11. Not only does it save money to buy sodas and snacks at Wal-Mart or the grocery store in quantity and take them with you to work/school/wherever, but convenience mart and liquor stores are scum-magnets.
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Old July 18, 2008, 12:25 AM   #16
Sweatnbullets
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Erik is right, the "three stupids" will cut down on you odds of problems by 98%

Do not go stupid places with stupid people and do stupid things.
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Old July 18, 2008, 08:55 AM   #17
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I have a few that most may not think about. Some of these might be common sense, but I’ll post them anyways...
1. When stopping at a red light, you want to SEE the back tires of the car in front of you. This is a rule of thumb is when you see the tires, that allows you to pull out if someone tries to attack you or you need to quickly get away. If you can see their tires, then you have enough room to quickly pull out and drive away (if your too close, you'll be locked in and that means you have drive forward, reverse, drive forward again, reverse again....etc.)
2. When parking in a large parking lot (or any for this scenario), park under the light pole. Just because it’s light when you go in doesn’t mean it'll be light when you come back out...
3. Speaking of parking lots, be familiar with your parking space in relation to the vehicles around you. If you're in a small car for example and you park between two vans, your car now has a "curtain" in front of it. When you leave the store, you cannot see your car or ANY possible attackers. Further, if you are attacked, there's a less chance that someone will see what's happening (because of the "curtain")
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Old July 18, 2008, 02:36 PM   #18
Keltyke
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Lavid

As you've probably figured out, it's a thread on what TO do to NOT have to shoot.
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Old July 18, 2008, 03:13 PM   #19
David Armstrong
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As mentioned, the 3 stupids are a great start.
I like to add don't be macho. It hurts to be laughed at, it's uncomfortable to have some SOB call you a little girl, or whatever. Suck it up, give a little curtsey, and move on. Your feelings are not worth a gunfight.
Don't be a hero. You've got enough trouble taking care of yourself and your family without taking care of the rest of the world.
Don't fight over property. If the BG is taking your TV out the back door, toss him the remote and call your insurance company. If the BG wants your car, give him the car and an extra $10 for gas money. Shooting it out over property will probably cost you far more than the property is worth.
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Old July 18, 2008, 03:28 PM   #20
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Don't associate with people who create or attract trouble for BS reasons. It doesn't matter if they are friends or family.
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Old July 18, 2008, 10:49 PM   #21
Sweatnbullets
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Quote:
I like to add don't be macho. It hurts to be laughed at, it's uncomfortable to have some SOB call you a little girl, or whatever. Suck it up, give a little curtsey, and move on. Your feelings are not worth a gunfight.
Ask yourself, "Is this really worth killing someone over?"

Killing someone costs a lot!
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Old July 19, 2008, 09:04 AM   #22
Jimtl
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You are right about bars! I played in a band for 15+ years and many of the places we played were bars. The ONLY fights I observed during that time happened in bars ... some of those involved weapons. I was never personally involved, but definitely not a good place to be.

Since quitting ... haven't seen a fight. By the way ... haven't been in a bar since!
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Old July 19, 2008, 02:44 PM   #23
Erik
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Another stupid people solution:

Whose in your peer group? A lot of life's problems can be mitigated through peer group adjustments.
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Old July 19, 2008, 06:11 PM   #24
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While you can't prevent everything, you can prevent most things.



Follow the Boy Scout motto: Be Prepared.
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Old July 19, 2008, 10:12 PM   #25
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Combat Mindset & Criminal Behavior

Compiled By Tom Perroni
Everything after the first paragraph was written by Tom Givens author of “Fighting Smarter”

In my article about combat mindset I talked about Jeff Coopers “Color Code”. It has been called the Color Code of: Self Defense, of Awareness, of Combat, I simply call it the Color Code. But in order to understand why this is such an important part of Combat Mindset you must understand the Wolf’s Behavior.
I have always taught my students to be in condition yellow. But for a better understanding of why you must be in condition yellow and not condition white or to put it another way to be a Sheepdog (in condition yellow and not be sheep (in condition white). The below article was written by Tom Givens author of “Fighting Smarter”.

Criminals must go through certain specific stages of activity before they can assault/rob/abduct/rape/etc. These stages will differ slightly in different types of crimes, but will generally fall into these categories.

1. SELECTION-

The criminal views you as a prospective victim. He looks at your “victim potential”, on two separate bases. First, do you have the type of car he wants, are you wearing expensive watches and jewelry, have you flashed a roll of cash, do you fit his rape victim profile? We think of this as, “Do you have what I want?” If the answer is, “Yes.”, he moves to the next question.

Then he evaluates you as a threat to him. First and foremost, are you paying attention to your surroundings? Are you aware of his presence? Do you look like you might be a physical problem? Do you look like you might be armed? I assure you he goes through these questions. We think of this as, “Can I get what I want from you, safely?”

If the answer to either question, “Do you have what I want, and can I get it from you, safely?” is “NO”, then off he goes, in search of easier prey. Thugs are not looking for a fight. What they’re looking for is the easy mark. Someone they can get to, get what they want from, and get away from, without being hurt and without being caught.

Several years ago, a fascinating study was conducted by some psychology students. They took photos of ordinary people as they came and went from a downtown business area. They then planned to show these to criminals and ask them to identify the people they would choose as victims, and identify the people they would choose to bypass. In the preliminary write-up, they said that they expected to see a 10-15% correlation among the “victim” and “non-victim” groups.

They then went to a state prison and got a very large number of career violent offenders (rapists, muggers, etc.) to enter a room one at a time and view these photos. Time after time, the thugs said “I want that one”, and pointed to others and said, “But I don’t want that one!” When it was over, the psychologists were shocked. There was a 95% correlation rate! Ninety-five times out of a hundred, individual thugs, with no communication among them, picked the same people to be victims, or to bypass. How did they do that? Body language. The only thing available from these photos was body language, but that was enough for the thugs to instantly identify the true victims as well as the people they would not risk a confrontation with.

Whom did they choose as victims? Gender, size, and age were surprisingly not the keys. Instead, they looked for people who shuffled along, head down, avoiding eye contact, unaware of their surroundings (Condition White). In contrast, they avoided choosing people, even small females, if they were alert, confident, head up, and looked like they knew what was going on around them (Condition Yellow). Remember what he really wants. He wants to get to you, get what he wants from you, and get away from you, without being hurt or caught.

There are signs that you are being evaluated by a potential attacker. They include:
1. Anyone who appears to be watching you should be viewed with mild alarm. If every time you look up, the same guy is looking at you, ask yourself, “Why?”
2. Anyone who is inactive until you approach, then tries to look busy;
3. Anyone whose activity is geared to yours. You speed up, he speeds up, etc.

2. POSITIONING-

Once a criminal selects a victim, he must move into a position from which an attack is possible. Always remember that to assault, rob, or rape you, he must be close enough to talk to you. He will attempt to maneuver into this position by stealth (which is defeated by being alert), or by ruse. He may ask you for the time, for change, for directions, anything to distract you and preferably cause you to look away from him. When you look away, here comes the blow! The best course of action is to politely refuse any request, no matter what it is. Keep your eye on him and say, “No”. Anything you agree to is the springboard for the next request, which then escalates to demands. Just say “No”.

Positioning prior to the assault is vital to him, as he relies almost totally on surprise for success. If you avoid his attempts to properly position himself, you forestall the attack. Be alert and watchful for these cues:

1. Anyone who falls in behind you after you walk by;
2. Two or more people who are together, but split up as you approach;
3. Anyone staying in one place, observing, but begins to move toward you;
4. Two or more people lined up along a wall or fence; or
5. Anyone who moves to block an exit after you enter a confined space.

If you see one of these cues, cross the street, change directions, turn a corner. If he alters his course to match yours, he has tipped his hand. Go to Orange and start planning an escape or response.

3. THE ATTACK-

The attack phase can only come after the evaluation phase and the positioning phase. It is simply not possible to attack you until these first two stages have been completed. The very best defense, therefore, is to circumvent the attack by not allowing the Evaluation Phase and the Positioning Phase to be fruitfully completed. Every single attack you avoid is a battle won! In every attack you fail to prevent, you are at enormous risk! A one-eyed, three fingered jackass can miss you by ten feet with a handgun, and ricochet a round off the pavement and into your femoral artery. Although you are “accidentally” dead, you’re still dead. Be alert and use your head and you won’t have to use your pistol nearly as often.


BEHAVIORAL CUES TO IMPENDING AGGRESSION-

With the exception of the true sociopath (more on him later), there will normally be cues, principally body language, which will assist you in forecasting aggressive activity by an individual you are observing. Being aware of these cues is vital to your accurate threat assessment.

Of course, verbalization by the offender is a critical cue. Someone cursing, shouting epithets, and generally being aggressive verbally is a likely candidate for physical aggression. Bear in mind, however, that 80% of human communication is non-verbal, and you must be aware of and watchful for these sometimes subtle indicators.

One of the most reliable indicators of an impending assault occurs when you are in a position of authority and the offender fails to comply with or contemptuously ignores your commands. If, for instance, you encounter an intruder in your home, and he does not immediately comply with your commands, you are in for a fight!

Other definitive indicators can include these, alone or in combination:

1. hands on hips;
2. cocked head
3. arms folded across the chest
4. fists clenched, or clenched and flexed alternately
5. jaw clenched
6. spitting
7. deliberate avoidance of eye contact
8. continuously looking around
9. sustained verbal rationalizations
10. continuous yawning and stretching
11. target glancing.


“Target glancing” refers to brief, repeated shifting of the offender’s eyes to your chin, your nose, or your weapon. Repeated target glances to your chin or nose means he is gauging the distance for a punch. Target glances at your weapon indicate a gun snatch may be imminent.

Always, when the pre-attack indicators are present, shift to the highest level of mental readiness (Condition Red) and be geared up. If at all possible, extend the distance between the two of you. Unless you are a Marine, you don’t have to die for the piece of ground you’re standing on!

Sociopaths: These ANIMALS are born without or fail to develop (because of abuse) any sort of empathy for their fellow man. They not only feel nothing when inflicting pain, but IF it brings them sexual pleasure they may do so anytime or anywhere. There will be no "cues." The serial killer may be a sociopath, but likely his other symptoms are not such as would inhibit him from interacting with "normal" folks socially... like in a daily work situation. Some are so disconnected from reality they can't hold a job at any level. Society quickly detects these. But folks like the infamous and now deceased serial killer Ted Bundy are winsome and charming and you may like hanging out with a guy like this, at first. But most folks will eventually get a clue that there is something… just WRONG. It may be too late at that point, especially if you belong to the target group. But there will be no attack indicators with a sociopath. What this means of course is that for folks you don't know very well be polite; be professional but have a plan to kill everybody you meet. Be prepared to implement such plan instantly. If you run into a sociopath (highly unlikely unless you're a part of a target population) and he goes for you, you'll be behind the power curve from the start. But react as if you'd been caught in a near ambush with an immediate action drill. EXTREME violence in instant response may well put this sort of wolf off balance and allow you to either escape or finish him.


"Conflict is inevitable; Combat is an option".
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