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Old July 15, 2008, 12:58 AM   #1
KChen986
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Walther PPS vs. HK P2000SK for Concealed Carry

Hey all, brother's looking to get a concealed carry piece if and when our permits come in. He specifically wants a polymer frame weapon. We went to a knowledgeable firearms store in Palm Beach and the salesman introduced us to various firearms, among them the PPS and the HK2000SK being the favorites.

We were a little disappointed by the lack of external safeties on them, but nevertheless he took a liking to the two.

PPS


HKP2000SK


Any thoughts about the two weapons? I've heard the PPS is relatively new and was recently released--but haven't found out much other information about it.

He's pretty set on a .40S&W so any other suggestions for a carry piece would be welcome too.

Thanks!
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Old July 15, 2008, 01:24 AM   #2
ChicagoTex
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Make sure he fires a .40S&W before he commits to it, the first two handguns I ever bought with my own money were .40s and the first time I fired them I was genuinely surprised to discover that the recoil is NOT "halfway between a 9mm and a .45", more like 85-90% of the .45, perhaps with a little more snap. This ultimately doesn't bother me and I continue to own, like, and shoot .40s - but I'm warning you (and by extension your brother) that buying a subcompact in .40 and not being able to cope with the recoil can probably make you a very sad panda

Now then, as to the guns themselves the P2000SK definetely offers more trigger options, being available as either DA/SA, DAO, or LEM whereas the PPS comes with one trigger-style, like it or lump it. The PPS is thinner, lighter, and cheaper but obviously has lower capacity than the P2000SK (I think it's 6+1 versus 9+1 but don't quote me on that). If money's no object, I'd say get the one that feels best to your brother and then shoot the heck out of it!
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Old July 15, 2008, 09:42 AM   #3
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The Kahr P9 is hard to beat for a carry pistol. In an emergency self-defense situation, working to release a safety could be a problem unless you've done it under stress. The double action trigger pull on the P9 is stiff enough on the first pull that if you have good safe handling practices you're not going to have a problem.
The P9 is much easier to control than the Kahr P40 because of the lighter recoil. The size, weight, and reliability make this an excellent choice for a carry pistol.
Be safe.
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Old July 15, 2008, 09:54 AM   #4
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Of the 2 choices I'd take the PPS because it's a bit thinner and will be easier to carry / conceal.

The HK is nice, but most of their newer stuff is fine product but not something I want to own.

I'd not look at Kahr, they are a 2nd or 3rd rate gun, learned this the hard way with a lemon of theirs... aparently they have been making lemons for awile... they were much celebrated as an approved off-duty weapon for NYPD and then managed to get themselves de-listed for carry by MOS.
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Old July 15, 2008, 10:12 AM   #5
ChicagoTex
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Quote:
I'd not look at Kahr, they are a 2nd or 3rd rate gun, learned this the hard way with a lemon of theirs... aparently they have been making lemons for awile... they were much celebrated as an approved off-duty weapon for NYPD and then managed to get themselves de-listed for carry by MOS.
I'm sorry you got a lemon but I don't agree that Kahrs are 2nd or 3rd rate, a lot of us own and carry Kahrs daily that have demonstrated to be 100% reliable (my CW40 certainly has). I wouldn't assume that being de-listed from the NYPD sanctioned list is indicative of build quality, there are numerous reasons a gun may be de-listed (truth be told, I think it's just as likely Kahr stopped paying bribes, what with the sterling reputation the upper echelons of the NYPD have...)
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Old July 15, 2008, 10:20 AM   #6
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The H&K P2000sk is much better quality than either guns mentioned.
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Old July 15, 2008, 11:07 AM   #7
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I have both of those guns. It would all depend on what aspects of the guns your brother found more important as to which would be a better choice as a CCW.

Does he value capacity and a versatile trigger system (exposed hammer, DA/SA, LEM) or does he value concealability?

They are both great guns but not exactely of the same quality. The Wlather PPS is a B+ gun with some great features (thin, light, good trigger, cocking indicator, adjustable backstrap, etc.) but the H&K is an A+ gun and probably the finest polymer gun on the market. The P2000SK gives you the option of an almost revolver like DA/SA trigger, adjustable backstraps, amazing ergonomics (in my hand anway), 50% more capacity, and an all around amazing design and build quality. The H&K is also a lot easier to get holsters for at this point.

The only categories the PPS wins in is concealabilty and the fact it includes different length mags.
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Old July 15, 2008, 11:09 AM   #8
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Hkp200sk

I've shot both and I now carry a H&K P2000 SK. I have both the 357 SIG and .40 cal barrels for it. The first time I shot it I couldn't believe how accurate it was and the recoil was 100% better than the Ruger P89DC I used to have. The quality is also better on the H&K IMO. The P2000 SK also has the changeable side panels and backstraps. I have a mixture of them and like the grip it gives me. I use a IWB holster and it concelas easily. Easy to clean, and well engineered. No contest IMO.
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Old July 15, 2008, 11:14 AM   #9
HKFan9
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+1 to PBP putting exactly what I was thinking, both are fine firearms, but depends on what your are exactly looking for. I favor easier to conceal so I would go with the PPS out of those two, but personally I bought a Kahr PM9 for summer carry.
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Old July 15, 2008, 11:25 AM   #10
Mark P.
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PPS for summer carry. Thin is in baby!
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Old July 15, 2008, 11:33 AM   #11
RsqVet
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Chicago ---

The delisting of Kahr was due to quality / reliability and their inability to fix it.

Just as they could not fix the POS I made the mistake of buying. The concept of the Kahr sized gun is great, their execution stinks, if it did not they would be selling like crazy but they are not.
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Old July 15, 2008, 01:30 PM   #12
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience with Kahr. My PM9 bought brand new operated flawlessly, even during the dreaded break in period. It is a great little gun and the shop owner who I purchase all my handguns from is a Police shooting instructor and carried 3 different Kahr's one of which is the PM9, and told me when I bought mine he was waiting for the black finished PM45.

I have heard that earlier makes of Kahrs were more prevalent with bugs, but the newer makes have been a lot better. I also heard the PM40 had a lot more lemons than the PM9.

Sorry to hear about your bad experiences from what I think is a great company.
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Old July 15, 2008, 03:22 PM   #13
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PPS has two piece feed ramp which will jam up with some rounds like federal HSt, Winchester Ranger T etc. Wide mouth JHP = no go on PPS from what I know of it right now. No such issue with HK.
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Old December 19, 2010, 11:12 PM   #14
Graham88
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Btw

There is nothing wrong with a 2 piece feed ramp... The 92F (M9) has a 2 piece feed ramp.
The PPS is a spot on Gun! And my choice for EDC!!
As for the H&K it is a sweet gun, and I will be the owner of that one as well as the 2 PPS I currently have.
And as noted above the PPS is a great everyday & summer gun.
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Old December 19, 2010, 11:20 PM   #15
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Imo the Walther is the finest EDC available. I have 2 in .40 and I love them. Excellent firearms.
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Old December 20, 2010, 08:30 AM   #16
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I bought the pps 9mm, I was looking for a thin gun for the wife and I to carry. It is a little snappy but I load my own ammo and was shooting loads I had for a Ruger p95. (Have not found the right load for the pps yet) For the first time fired the accuracy was great and no cycle problems. I was looking for a Springfield EMP (Hard to find and a $1000.00 + price tag) but at around $600.00 the pps is what the wife and I settled on. (So far not disappointed) This gun comes with a 6, 7, or 8 round clip and the extra clip is around $45.00 + so find a gun with two or more clips if you can. (Mine only came with one clip)

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Old December 20, 2010, 08:48 AM   #17
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The P2000SK is the finest subcompact pistol ever made as far as I'm concerned. It tames the 40 better than any "medium" compact I've ever shot, and is accurate and concealable for most. That said, I'd highly recommend the 9mm version of either of the OP's original suggestions. Not enough terminal ballistic differences to offset the hot recoil and considerably higher ammo prices. The PPS in particular will be a much better pistol in 9mm than 40SW.
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Old December 20, 2010, 11:29 AM   #18
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I choose & have the p2000sk in 40 with an 'LEM' trigger. If CC is the main goal do some research on the LEM trigger, most don't want or need a safety on a CC gun. The LEM is SIMILAR to a DAO pull, you have to want to pull it. It the heat of the battle you want a 'grab & go' gun. As far as recoil mine isn't bad. You can find some gentle loads for practice & plinking & test some heavier ones for carry. The p2000sk becomes a 12 +1 gun with an extended USPc magazine. The rubber "X-Grip" adds room for one more finger on the grip.
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Old December 20, 2010, 11:38 AM   #19
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I have no experience with the HK2000 but do with the PPS and Kahr's.

The PPS in 9MM is a joy to shoot, accurate and very thin which makes it easier to conceal. Trouble is my copy had way too many failures to go into battery. I realize all brands no matter how good have a small percentage of rejects. I could probably have sent it in to S & W for a ream & polish job that would have rectified the problem but I didn't. I may well try another in the future.

The Kahr CW 9 that I have is also a joy to shoot with no malfunctions!
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Old December 20, 2010, 11:55 AM   #20
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Glock 23 (.40). Also, should the recoil prove to be overwhelming, it can easily be converted to a 19 (9mm) with a $100 Lone Wolf conversion barrel and some G19 magazines. Probably a simpler and cheaper gun than any discussed so far.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/glock23.html
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Old December 20, 2010, 12:36 PM   #21
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I would rec the P2000SK in 9 mm. I think the recoil is a bit much in .40. Also, the P2000SK does not come with changeable side panels. It is still quite ergonmetric though.
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Old December 20, 2010, 05:13 PM   #22
Coltman 77
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I have both and they are very fine sidearms. They are very accurate and a pleasure to shoot.

In fact, my wife and I took her 9mm PPS to the range this afternoon and put another 150 faultless rds. through it. Which brings the total to 1500 rds. with zero malfunctions.

My wife carries the PPS and I usually carry the P2000 SK.
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