The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights > Legal and Political

 
 
Thread Tools
Old July 11, 2008, 10:41 AM   #1
cajun47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2007
Location: swamp people
Posts: 539
does the supreme court ruling cancel employer's rules about no guns in parking lots?

i live in louisiana and im told by many friends the chemical plants have banned any kind of guns in their parking lots(in your car). they search with dogs and if you are caught you are banned from that plant.

thing is most people in my town work in those plants and i was thinking of working there also. its a long drive to most of them and i think its even more important to have a gun in the car than in my house. in louisiana your car is considered an extension of your house.

i know there was a bill in florida that would have stopped these employers. did it pass? will we get a federal law like this?
cajun47 is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 10:43 AM   #2
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,841
The answer is for right now - NO!

It is an issue that probably needs to be handled at each state level as it is conflict between property rights and gun rights.

I'm firmly for the gun rights - long debate but I think the employer has no right to take away your right of self-defense too and from work.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:04 AM   #3
freakshow10mm
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 1,398
They are not taking away your right to self defense while en route to/from work. They are exercising their right as private property owners and controlling what items may be on company property. If your vehicle is on company property, then all the items in your vehicle are also on company property, if they are prohibited items you risk your job.

You have absolutely zero Constitutional rights on private property. The government does not have the power to pass these "guns in parking lot" laws.
freakshow10mm is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:14 AM   #4
cajun47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2007
Location: swamp people
Posts: 539
freak, i don't give a damn about your anti 2nd opinions. go find some liberal board.
cajun47 is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:54 AM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,841
I guess according to Freakshow - employers have the right to discriminate on racial and religious grounds. I guess they could also ban air conditioned cars on their private property. Maybe they could ban underpants.

BTW, why should my tax money pay for the fire and police to go to your private property to save your butt when it is on fire? If you think private property is so holy-moley - take care of yourself.

Ridiculous.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old July 11, 2008, 12:07 PM   #6
BreacherUp!
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 21, 2005
Posts: 566
Though you may want to crucify Freak, it is only b/c he speaks the truth. A private company restricts what you can/cannot view on the internet, where you can go/not go, and what you can/cannot bring on their property. Period. Everything that you are entitled to do on your property.
__________________
Life's tough. But it's tougher when you're stupid.
BreacherUp! is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 12:19 PM   #7
MedicineBow
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 15, 2008
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 297
This thread poses an easy question.

Of course the Heller decision has no effect on what private companies can do in this circumstance.

I find it amusing that Freakshow10mm came in for so much static for simply explaining the obvious.
__________________
Dulce bellum inexpertis
MedicineBow is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 12:22 PM   #8
Kreyzhorse
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 12, 2006
Location: NKY
Posts: 11,516
Quote:
The answer is for right now - NO!
Heller had zero effect on any thing other than DC as it stands right now. It amazes me the amount of confusion on what Heller actually did and did not do.

If you haven't taken the time to actually read the decision, everyone should do so. I found the dissenting opinions actually pretty frightening.
__________________
"He who laughs last, laughs dead." Homer Simpson
Kreyzhorse is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 12:58 PM   #9
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,841
Freak only speaks his view of what property rights should be. They are not written in the fabric of the universe like the laws of physics. They are a social construct.

The democratic process can implement a different view when an employer decides to infringe on issues not relevant to job performance and detrimental to the safety and well being of the employees. The right of self-defense trumps that of some pseudo-feudal property lord of the manor as long as the practice does not impact the job itself.

We decided as a nation that the private employer on his or her property could not discriminate. The private property freaks and/or racists using property as a ploy for racism howled about their property. They sucked and they lost that battle.

It's very simple.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is online now  
Old July 11, 2008, 04:06 PM   #10
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Posts: 8,606
So, a person has the right to defend himself with whatever means he deems necessary even on private property...

Does that mean I have the right to enter a family member's house that forbids hanguns in their home? I think not.

Stand me next to the raging "anti" freakshow. Believe it or not, there are actual limitations of the 2A as well as all the others...
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 04:27 PM   #11
MisterWilson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2008
Posts: 175
They have dogs that can smell guns in your car?
MisterWilson is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 04:34 PM   #12
divemedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2006
Posts: 1,313
Quote:
The government does not have the power to pass these "guns in parking lot" laws.
Is there some case law, constitutional provision, or other law that says this, or is this just your personal fantasy?
__________________
Caveat Emperor
divemedic is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 05:01 PM   #13
shaggy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Posts: 1,519
Quote:
Freak only speaks his view of what property rights should be.
As do you. The FL law in question is one of the few like it in the country - where one man's 2nd amendment rights trumps another's private property rights. I'm no anti-gunner, but like some of the others here, I'll fall on the side of property rights in that debate. If you think the government should be in the business of enforcing your 2nd amendment rights on the private property of another person, I assume you'd then not object to the government enforcing one's 1st amendment rights on the private property of another. Would you be happy if the government mandated you had to allow anti-gun protestors on your front lawn?
shaggy is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 08:41 PM   #14
cajun47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2007
Location: swamp people
Posts: 539
its not private when the property is open for business.

comparing large chemical companies to a private home owner? please.
cajun47 is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 09:04 PM   #15
shaggy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Posts: 1,519
Quote:
its not private when the property is open for business.

comparing large chemical companies to a private home owner? please.
Sorry comrade, but despite what you may think or desire, the US is still primarily a capitalist nation. Corporate owned or commercial property may be open to the public, but it is still privately owned property.
shaggy is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 09:15 PM   #16
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,215
Quote:
Sorry comrade, but despite what you may think or desire, the US is still primarily a capitalist nation. Corporate owned or commercial property may be open to the public, but it is still privately owned property
Yep, they can steal the tires off your car while it's parked in their lot and there's nothing you can do about it. Because it's their property. Wait a minute, no they can't... it's almost as if the car is the *employee's* property...
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 09:17 PM   #17
shaggy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 9, 2004
Posts: 1,519
The car is your property, but the lot is theirs. If they don't want your car on their lot thats their business. Don't like their rules? Work somewhere else.
shaggy is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 10:46 PM   #18
freakshow10mm
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 1,398
Quote:
freak, i don't give a damn about your anti 2nd opinions. go find some liberal board.
I'm a Libertarian. I'm far from an "anti 2nd". If you would take your head out of your ass, you would realize that the Bill of Rights is protection against government infringement.

Quote:
I guess according to Freakshow - employers have the right to discriminate on racial and religious grounds.
Yes, I do think they should have that right. A company has a right to preserve a certain image for their company. If they don't want to hire white, skinny, bald headed, tattooed, married guys like me, they shouldn't have to.

Quote:
BTW, why should my tax money pay for the fire and police to go to your private property to save your butt when it is on fire?
I pay property taxes too. Just in case you need the fire department for your property.

Quote:
Is there some case law, constitutional provision, or other law that says this, or is this just your personal fantasy?
Governments only have the powers that their Constitutions say they do.

For the record, I have a company policy that mandates all employees are to be armed at all times while "on the clock" or on company property.
freakshow10mm is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:13 PM   #19
armedtotheteeth
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 3, 2005
Location: podunk, Texas
Posts: 1,610
Misterwilson yes they have gun sniffing dogs. I trick them by keeping large amounts of pepper in my car. Im not sure about the legality of keeping guns in cars where i work. Dogs smell 15000 times better than us. Imagine what a 3 ounce can of pepper spilled on the floorboard smells like to them
armedtotheteeth is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:31 PM   #20
cajun47
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 28, 2007
Location: swamp people
Posts: 539
"If you would take your head out of your ass,"

they let 12 year olds post here? grow up and keep the school ground lingo to yourself.
cajun47 is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:37 PM   #21
O6nop
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 16, 2005
Location: Austin,TX
Posts: 291
I'm definitely not a lawyer, but I don't think any business has exemption from government intervention. They are restricted by such agencies as OSHA, FCC, EPA, Local fire and waste ordinances to name a few. It seems that legislation can enforce 2nd amendment rights for the purpose of allowing employees to keep locked firearms in their vehicles on company property so that they can protect themselves on their journeys between work and home.

I don't think it's a big deal for a gunowner to go to a homeowners property if they leave the firearm in the vehicle. No one is saying the firearm is to be carried in and around the property, only locked away in the car.
__________________
I believe there is safety in numbers..
such as 9x19, .22, .38, .45, .223, 7.62, 6.5x55, .303, .30-06
O6nop is offline  
Old July 12, 2008, 12:00 AM   #22
freakshow10mm
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 1,398
Quote:
they let 12 year olds post here? grow up and keep the school ground lingo to yourself.
Thanks. I needed a good laugh.
freakshow10mm is offline  
Old July 12, 2008, 01:06 AM   #23
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,319
Well, that didn't take long, did it?

Mud slinging... Name calling... But we're all responsible adults, yes?

Closed.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
 

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11635 seconds with 7 queries