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Old July 8, 2008, 06:41 PM   #1
JP Sarte
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Never Buy Remington. Never

Called Remington on 07/07/08 to get a UPS tracking number on a package they were supposed to be shipping me for over a year's worth of hassle in dealing with them on other unrelated matters. In all the years I have had problems I have always refused free goods and services when offered. Always.

For some reason (still unknown to me) the girl refused to look up the information for me and refused to transfer me to a customer service manager when I requested it. She claimed no manager was available. When I asked for her name the conversation went like so:

Me: Can I get your name?
Her: No. What do you need that for?
Me: Can I get your name?
Her: No. What do you need that for?
Me: I need it to make this conversation part of my complaint.
Can I get your name?
Her: No.
Me: Are you seriously not going to give me your name?
Her: I guess we have nothing further to talk about.

She refused to give me her name and hung up on me.

You don't wan't to provide your name? Fine. Send me to a manager. Problem solved for you.

Are you kidding?

So I call back right away and dial into a different department knowing if I call the toll free number I just called all I am likely to get is the same treatment. When I reached legal (which I dialed at random just to get a live human) I got the woman to transfer me to a customer service manager.

What? wait a minute (I thought to myself) there is a manager in the office. Talked to her and finally got an answer after another hour goes by and she calls me back.

This is it. This is the last straw. I have been doing business longer than I care to admit with all sorts of companies and I don't ever remember being hung up on. This after they were supposed to be "compensating" me for a year long nightmare with them already. They can't get it right even when they are trying to make it right for something else they made mistakes with.

Still business a usual at the ol' Remington Arms Company. For all you Remington representatives out there hear this: No need to ever worry about me "bothering" you for anything again. If Remington was the only gun maker left on the planet I would give up hunting and shooting forever. You can keep all your quality control problems, customer service problems, and manufacturing blunders and save them for ten year olds who don't know better, guys with religious like loyalty to your "products" regardless how how you make them, and the carnival rube set. I am done.

Finally, I find it interesting that over the decades I have bought guns from Marlin, Glock, Tikka, CVA, Winchester, Beretta, Walther, and S&W to name just a few. I have never had any problems with any other gun maker. Never. Not one. Lucky? Maybe. I think not.

To each his own, but if any TFL members wan't my opinion, I say buy some old Milsurp from Paraguay before buying so much as one shell of ammuntion from these people who attempt pass themselves off as a gun company. End of another era I guess. Just too blind to see it.

JP
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Old July 8, 2008, 07:53 PM   #2
Stiofan
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Just sort of a rant huh?

Sorry about your problems. It happens when companies have to hire from the human gene pool and don't have strong enough customer relation management to head this stuff off.

I still like Remington though, I've bought a lot from them over the years and probably still will. Ditto Marlin who's now owned by Remington I hear.

Until I get treated as you did of course.
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Old July 8, 2008, 08:08 PM   #3
orionengnr
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Too late, I've already bought and owned a bunch. Mostly M-700s of one sort or another.

Of course, I've never had the first moment of trouble with any one of them, either...
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Old July 8, 2008, 10:04 PM   #4
jbrown
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I kind of soured on them when my new 700 varmint special in 223 wouldnt feed reliably from the magazine.
Made me laugh when I saw a show on tv about a shooting competition where they had to hit as many small long range targets as fast as they could.The guys with the 700 varminters were having the same feed problems I had.
Give me CRF anyday.Just my opinion
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Old July 8, 2008, 10:47 PM   #5
TheShootist1894
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AHA!

Yet another Great reason to add to my list of why Sturm Ruger is the BEST ALL AMERICAN gunmaker
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Old July 9, 2008, 08:18 AM   #6
RsqVet
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Well I have been treated equally cruddy by the the CSR's at the airline that always seems to be the lowest bidder everytime I have to fly.

They still keep the planes in the air though the bathrooms smell more and more like the ones in the port authority bus terminal.

Guess my point is, one can have cruddy CS and still turn out a decent product where it counts. Same as in medicine, most surveys show folks willing to deal with lack of bedside manner if the know their doctor is really great.

Seems that in this day in age no many places have any good CS at all.. heck for all you know you were speaking to an outsourced call center.

For some products remmington still makes a product I like and use, What happend with you --- that's more of intrest to me than their CS.... for what remmingotn makes (not a whole lot) I ahve always thought they were good to excelelnt.
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Old July 9, 2008, 08:57 AM   #7
azsixshooter
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I was in the market for a new shotgun several years ago. Since I love the 870 I've had since I was 20 years old, I naturally planned to buy another. Until I noticed they have hillary holes now. What a joke, I almost threw it on the floor in disgust. I bought a Mossberg instead and I'm very happy with it.

I am currently getting ready to order a 25-06 (truck got broken into and I lost $500 worth of stuff so my order is delayed for now), I thought the Remington 700 BDL. Then I saw that that, too, had an infernal lock. Screw Remington, I'll never buy any gun with an infernel lock and I'll never NEVER support any company trying to cram that garbage down my throat. I will add the caveat that I'd be open to buying an older Remington without that nonsense, but never anything new. I don't even care if it's easy to remove. I'm buying a Savage and I'll feel good about it.

I'm glad to hear about your ordeal, it adds to my opinion that any company that forces infernal locks blows donkey nuts and doesn't deserve my business.
:barf:
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Old July 9, 2008, 09:30 AM   #8
JP Sarte
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For those interested in my "troubles" with Remington's products and not just CS please see other recent posts by me on the Remington issue including this one:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...85#post2903285

JP
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Old July 15, 2008, 06:33 AM   #9
tok shooter
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as Clark Howard would call it it should be Customer NOService
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Old July 15, 2008, 12:38 PM   #10
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I think they make decent products, lemons come in every batch. However, I agree that their customer service magnifies these lemons. I just bought a 597 as a cheap rimfire to practice with irons. Not much invested, no big deal. Problem is, front sight post was staked way off center. Not even close. With the adjustable rears at the extreme, it was still hitting way off-center with POA dead-on. So I bring it in to a service center (which was a hike, maybe it's just where I was at the time but it didn't seem like they authorized a lot of service centers). Yes Mr., you're right, they screwed this up alright, got to go back to the factory.

Didn't see that thing for the better part of a year. Pretty much forgot I owned it when they called to say it was ready for pickup.

Enjoying it now for the most part, I'd say it was worth the $100, but was that ever some slow service.
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Old July 15, 2008, 01:35 PM   #11
UniversalFrost
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hi sorry to hear of your issues with remington. I have had nothing but good support from them.

Savage on the other hand, was almost identical to your dealings with Remington. That is why I never buy Savage anymore and sold all my Savage guns.

joe
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Old July 16, 2008, 11:18 PM   #12
olddrum1
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I kind of feel sorry for the kid that you were dealing with if you pushed them far enough to hang up.
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Old July 18, 2008, 12:13 PM   #13
JP Sarte
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I kind of feel sorry for the kid that you were dealing with if you pushed them far enough to hang up.

olddrum1:

I never said I pushed anyone. Read the post again. And again if needed. That's what makes the whole situation so ridiculous. If by pushing someone you mean asking for their name during a business call or asking for a supervisor, I would hate to do business with you. These questions are a normal part of business and foster accountability. They are the professional way to address problems.

Maybe the woman was having a bad day, maybe she does this on a regular basis, maybe she was drunk at work. God only knows. I am not sure I really care. If a customer is not behaving how you think they should act call for a manager. Hell, send them to another customer service representative. Anything but hang up on them.

Nevertheless, I am not sure what would motivate you to make such a comment about me? You don't know me, you didn't hear the conversation, and I am fairly sure you don't know the woman in question since you referred to her as a "kid". I am starting to wonder if you actually read the original post. Suggesting I somehow caused this conduct is akin to blaming the vcitim of a crime. "The guy must have done something to deserve it" mentality.

If during such a call I asked how your day was going you might think I was threatening you or insulting your manhood. What a completely inaccurate interpretation of that post. Oh, did I mention you should read it again.

By the way, you wouldn't happen to work for Remington would you? There are a few of those guys on this board that like to troll around and spread their company propaganda. If you don't work for Remington maybe you should consider it. Your attitude would fit right in there. Blame, Blame, Blame, counter accusation.

Finally I think you missed the purpose of this post and the purpose of this part of TFL. You are supposed to share your experiences with others so they can use the information when they consider doing business with a company. Members can take it or leave it.

Personal insults or suggestions of impropriety are wildly inappropriate.


JP

Last edited by JP Sarte; July 18, 2008 at 11:05 PM.
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Old July 18, 2008, 03:17 PM   #14
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Thumbs down for the New Remington.

JPsarte, I can relate to what your saying 100%. I bought myself a new 870 Express this past November as another gift to myself and another nice gun my kids can inherit when im gone. After 20-30 shots, The rib started to loosen up. After numerous calls(11 to be exact because I kept everything documented)and e-mails to Remington with no response, I was finally answered only to have them ask if I had done something wrong to it. WHAT! I couldnt even believe what I was hearing, The guy actually just asked me if I had done something to it??? I said, Yeah, I got my cutting torch out and put some cherry heat on the barrel to loosen up the solder joints. What a bunch of knuckleheads to even ask such a question. And then after 5 months at a "Repair center" and another 5 calls with no answers or knowledge of where it was or if it was fixed, They finally sent me a new barrel to replace it as if they lost the original(still dont know what happened to it). I own 13 Remington products(and alot of other brands) and thank god they are mostly older ones from when Remington was Remington and not just a person waiting for a paycheck on the other end of the phone. I am holding off on all of my future Remington purchases(Including ammo) till I know that their quality is back to where I DESERVE IT! And not what THEY THINK it should be. I have always had a passion for Remingtons but lately it has gone sour and I have lost faith in the New Remington compared to the Remington I remember from 20 years ago.
JPsarte, I wish you the best of luck getting your guns fixed but from my past experience, I wouldnt hold my breath and would just give to my gunsmith to fix and loose a few bucks. Good luck, Mike
OLDDRUM1, Even if he did yell at the customer service rep.(Im sure he didnt from my experience), Its their job to get it straightened out or transfer him to a person that can. The worst thing to do to a customer is to hang up on them!
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Old July 18, 2008, 04:24 PM   #15
model18
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remington

And I was going to buy a Marine Magnum.....NOT NOW...I've had and heard enough about "poor customer service" from various gun / parts companies & suppliers. Corporate America just doesn't care!
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Old July 18, 2008, 06:16 PM   #16
JP Sarte
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Mikenbarb:

I wish things were different but you are exactly right. Remington is a former shell of a once great and mighty gun company. No more. I have never seen a company go down hill so fast. End of an era. I am done trying to figure it out. My approach at this point will simply be to avoid them period. That way if I don't purchase their products I don't have to deal with all the problems. With so many other really good choices out there we shouldn't have to. Good luck to you as well. Hope the gunsmith doesn't get too deep into your wallet to fix all those problems. Looks like another Tikka for me on my next purchase. Good luck and be safe.

JP
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Old July 18, 2008, 08:22 PM   #17
mikenbarb
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The 870 is being traded in towards another Browning next week. Its the newest Remington I own and dont need the headachs down the line. It broke once and im not taking a chance. I think corporate America has to get rid of all the bean counters and take their companies back over to satisfy the customers needs and not the shareholders. Like you said, Theres other gunmakers out there and alot are better. And proably all have better customer service.
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Old July 19, 2008, 01:04 AM   #18
olddrum1
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JP Sarte Mike and barb

JP Sarte, I do not mean to cast a bad light over you affairs but I worked staffing for an office of about 800 Representives that were on the phones for a large company for the last couple of years before I retired. When they say your call may be monitored, that was me listening in. I want to get one thing clear first. Mikenbarb you did not hear the call as I did not and you have no notion of what you are even talking about. With that said, several things could have happened. A. New kid on the phones, The conversation got over his head and he got shook up and hung up. They may have disconnected because the computer and phone are two different systems and the kid may have hit the wrong button on the phone. They cannot call out. There phones are all inbound would be my guess. (Retrained or fired) (This is the kid I am feeling sorry for) B. Your behavior became unbusiness like. The kid hung up on you, called a supervisor over if one was not present and your account was noted as to why you were disconnected. C. This is the one that I would guess. You have been dealing with Remington a year over I do not know what. On this kids computer there is a note to call a supervisor immediately when you call. There may also be a note to not transfer in that Remington considers the situation closed. The supervisor may have been standing there and told the kid not to transfer. This office I would guess has your number. There are ways around this that you have figured out I see. Check you PM.
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Old July 19, 2008, 05:13 AM   #19
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If I gave up every time I had a defective product or bad customer service I wouldn’t have food, water, shelter, clothing, utilities, automobiles, a wife…. to name a few. Remember, water will wear granite.
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Old July 19, 2008, 08:19 AM   #20
mikenbarb
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OLDDRUM1, Where are you getting kid from, He said a woman not a kid. I was site mngr of a large corporate welding supply branch(Largest chain in North America) for a few years and had many customer service reps, drivers, salesman, etc., I was in charge of and not once did any hang up on a customer even if the person was screaming at them. If their was a problem they couldnt answer, They would transfer them to me or corporate HQ. Not just hang up no matter what the conversation was. And we didnt put notes on customers on our computers, There wasnt enough room for all the ones that complained. According to JP, He said it did not get heated and the woman wouldnt even give him her name. Since when is it not ok not to ask a persons name on the phone and get a lame answer like the one he got? I always ask a persons name that im speaking with so it can be documented. And most professional business owners require that the person announce their names when answering the phone(Hello, This is Mike can I help you?) I know what he went thru because I was in his shoes also with a problem that couldnt or wouldnt be answered. OLDDRUM1, I hope that you never have to send a Remington product for repair anytime soon. If so, You will realize what we have gone thru. I cant believe that your even sticking up for the people at Remington, Do you work for them?? Sounds like you know how they work pretty well and even know they got notes on their computers about thousands of irate customers and vendors. Hmmmmm, are you one of "Them"?
Like I said, Im done with Remington for now and im sticking with other brands until im convinced that I can get the service I deserve and not what they think I should get. I think if they continue like this, your going to see alot more posts like this one.
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Old July 19, 2008, 09:42 AM   #21
PT111
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I was doing training at a call center located in the South that took computer assistance calls from all over the country for a company that shall not be named. We were monitoring some of the calls as a training assignment for employees.

Call comes in from New York and the young lady answers very nicely with may I help you?

Quoting so sorry about the language:barf:

Customer: "Yeah, get me a white person on the phone, I don't want to talk to no damn ******".

I was floored and asked it that had happened to any of them. They said "All the time, usually from the northern states". That was an eyeopener for me. Unless you have worked in customer support or with the public you have no idea what they can be like.
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Old July 19, 2008, 10:47 AM   #22
JP Sarte
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jmorris:

I believe that even if the majority of consumers (not all) stopped buying from companies when we had "defective products or bad customer service" it would stop. This problem exists because we allow it to.

JP
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Old July 19, 2008, 12:59 PM   #23
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Wonder why olddrum1 is taking issue with the OP? He doesn't seem to have a dog in the fight. Or does he??????
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Old July 19, 2008, 10:04 PM   #24
Arkie743
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Savage sucks big air also!!!!

UniversalFrost
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Savage on the other hand, was almost identical to your dealings with Remington. That is why I never buy Savage anymore and sold all my Savage guns.

Amen!!!!!!!!!!about Savage customer service dept sucking big air!
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Old July 19, 2008, 10:47 PM   #25
imahotshot
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I've had some problems with companies that out-source their customer service to India, Phillipines, etc. I had a "goodie" with Hewlet Packard. The first time I got a very cordial, helpful, patient engineer at HP. The second call sometime later I got a lady who spoke so little English all I could get from here was "You've got a problem!" I no longer have an HP. On the other hand, I've called Para Ordnance several times and received onthing but absolutely superior help and service. My cable company promises they won't ever out=source their suctomer service!
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