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Old July 9, 2008, 02:55 PM   #26
akr
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This was on the news. Police raided the wrong house by mistake. An elderly woman in the house fired at the door as they were bursting in. They shot her 5 times and killed her.
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Old July 9, 2008, 02:57 PM   #27
David Armstrong
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I'm not so sure this is a good idea from a legal defense standpoint, unless I follow up by dragging the body inside the house.
It might be legally defensible, but puts you in a really bad place for the civil case. And dragging a body inside is a pretty good way to change a legitimate self-defense situation into a blatant criminal event. NEVER alter a crime scene unless necessary for safety.

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Old July 9, 2008, 03:16 PM   #28
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I dont have kids at home anymore so the only thing out of the bedroom i worry about is pets . Colorado was famous for the " make my day law " some years ago and it does not reach to the new " castle doctrine " laws in many states . Statute here is basically the reasonable man doctrine . That means if a " reasonable man " would be in fear for his/her life shooting is permissible. I cant shoot someone for trespass, but by the same token if me and family retreat to a room and call the cops i can shoot anyone who attempts to enter our safe room . If i get up in the night and discover a burgler well if i can explain that a common man would be in fear of assault resulting in grave injury or death ( colorado jurys so far have held breaking in can establish this fear ) i may shoot such a disadvantaged person . Tx took stuff an order of magnitude larger in they basicly state you can shoot thieves . and have enacted laws to protect this premise ( Joe Horn was no billed there and here the best he could have looked for would be manslaughter ) . To the OP tho , MY state does not require me to " escape " if possible . It rather requires me to stay within the " reasonable man " doctrine . which is pretty much common sense . If they kick your door in while you are watching tv well they mean you no good . If they kick your door in at 3 AM well they really mean you no good . If you are in fear for your life you may use whatever you need to to defend yourself . We dont as a rule have home invasions in colorado . We still have crime . but the " burglers " make sure the homeowner is not there , and due to gunsafes they dont take a large collection often .
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Old July 9, 2008, 03:23 PM   #29
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Why

When you know that a bad guy is attacking your house why cant you set upn a strong defensive point with something like a belt fed machine gun, or even a tommy gun- that would really give them a surprise and be sure to use high velocity rounds that will hurt badly even if the Bad Guy has body armour. Personally i would get at the top of the staris, as this gives a good viewpoint and hit them hard with everything - tommy gun, shotgun pistol any other firearm thatn you happen to have as soon as they get into the house then if their still standing go after them with a tommy, or substitute,gun and bush-wack them as soon as you get a chance. Of course you could take the simple route and leave fenn traps lyimng around so by tyhe screams you know where the bad guys are and can hit them accordingly
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Old July 9, 2008, 03:50 PM   #30
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When you know that a bad guy is attacking your house why cant you set upn a strong defensive point with something like a belt fed machine gun
Rarely if ever are you going to know when you'll be attacked, and few people have belt fed machine guns or tommy guns.

All those stray bullets flying at your neighbors...and the police will be hauling you off.
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Old July 9, 2008, 06:29 PM   #31
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When you know that a bad guy is attacking your house why cant you set upn a strong defensive point with something like a belt fed machine gun, or even a tommy gun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wLyMJ7LER4


My home simply isn't set up well for defending. We're on second floor, two other kids in upstairs bedrooms, but we have one kid in a bedroom at the opposite end of the first floor. There's really no options for changing that setup. We have a lease and can't have a dog. As most of you know, there's simply no good way to go down stairs without exposing yourself. One thing that works both for us and against us is that with the old floors in this place there's no way to navigate much of the house without squeaking floorboards. It's not noticeable during the day, but during a quiet night it's very noticeable. Fortunately, we're in a pretty good neighborhood, but I have no illusions that provides any assurances. We should be mostly "kid-free" within a few years, so we expect to move to a smaller house at that point we'll keep security in mind.
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Old July 10, 2008, 12:22 AM   #32
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Well I know in my state for a long time you had to flee from your own home.... and could be prosecuted for killing the perp in your own home. That has changed or so i have heard but dont know the extent of it.

First of all if you have dogs most burglars wont come close to you unless they are Pros. Draws too much attention to what they are doing. If they are pros they wont do the job while you are home because they want to get the most out of your home if they have cased the place and if they are pros believe me they have done their homework.

I agree with a good defense... call 911 and give them as much detailed information as possible. Let them know where you are and that you are armed so when they come through the door they dont shoot you or you shoot them.

The main thing is a plan of action for the whole family. If you have kids they should know what to do if that situation arises. Just like a fire plan ... have a central meeting place... and a secondary incase you cant get to the primary. Get to know your neighbors so if you or your kids get separated and have to leave the house you can go and pound on a door somewhere for help and have them dial 911 as well.

Escape is an option ... I like gathering and defending yourself better. Have to do whatever will keep you from harm both staying or going.
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Old July 10, 2008, 01:59 AM   #33
.300H&H
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I have 2 dogs <dobe and a sheperd>and 3 cats...and two parakeets. The dogs are well-trained and they let me know if somebody or something is on the property well before any possible break-in. My dobe starts to whine if somebody is at the driveway<long way away...>and my shepherd stays quiet, but is ready and waiting. They aren't mean dogs; it's just their nature to be aware about what's going on. While it's possible a home invasion might put the dogs at risk, the dogs are quite formidable - and any burglar with just a bit of common sense would be wise to steer clear of'em. The cat's? Oh my, I feel sorry for the burglar in my house ie. 3 cats running amuck trying to hide while a dobe and a shepherd get all excited...and the parakeets start sqwawking...
and then their's my wife with her iron skillet and a .38 snubbie...and me with my .25acp.
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Old July 10, 2008, 02:38 AM   #34
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As the title says - "Home Invasion Escape plan".

There are times when it may be advisable to evac & evade. Having one intruder is bad enough. Two is downright scary. But if you have more than that (for whatever reason), there's a high degree of danger.

Having a plan for the wife & kids to escape whilst you perform the rear-guard action may be prudent. At least you'll have thought things out ahead of time and know what to do or where to go.

For some folks, it's a no-go. You can't get out without being seen or risking further danger. For others, it may be easier to slip outside undetected and then flee to the nearest (ideally armed) neighbor.

Here in California, we've seen a number of home-invasion style robberies in the past. Usually in the Asian immigrant community. They use 3 to 6 people to invade, terrorize and take what they want. Sometimes people are hurt, sometimes not. Some do end up dead. So the idea of a 3 or 6 man "team" is not improbable.

Like Stephen426 my primary exit is a glass door and it puts me visible to anyone in the living room/dining room area. The next best bet is to exit thru the garage, however the noise of the door opener would draw ill-intent intruders too quickly.

Unless the house is on fire or people are shooting the pets, furniture & walls, the best bet is to hunker down and remain in a defensible position. If possible or necessary, push the bed or other furniture to block the door and defend the entries to the room.

If I can tell there are multiple intruders (who aren't yelling "Police!"), my preference is a defensible position from the bedroom and not be shy about ammo usage. I figure the noise will certainly get the neighbors' attention (especially after shooting out the glass door).
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Old July 10, 2008, 07:40 AM   #35
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I have small children in my home and their bedroom is between mine and the doors. I am going to attack with a cold-blooded ruthlessness that would make Genghis Kahn go .

If you break into my house while I am in it, YOU WILL DIE!!! I do not plan to escape.
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Old July 10, 2008, 08:03 AM   #36
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It is MY home not the Govt either state or fed. It is MY life not the state or fed. I will protect both with deadly force if need be. Liberals can kiss my ass for being aggressive. No reasonable man wants to kill another. But if it comes down to me or you, then hell I love myself to much. A thief can have my belongings but my love ones (including dogs) and our lives they cannot have.

Any state which violates the consitution is in violation of the law. If I must run from my home then my rights to persue happiness and a complete life have been violated also. Most states have changed this dumb law and allowed defending oneself in their home. Common sense to me, and to most.
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Old July 10, 2008, 08:22 AM   #37
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By staying put in your own home and calling 911 you hold the best cards. If you are in a bedroom, stay there and keep the lights turned off. You know better than any "visitor" to your home, where the walls, doors, windows, furniture, squeaky floors, etc. happen to be. With the lights out the univited guest(s) will be the ones stumbing around in the dark, bumping into things while you wait unseen.

If they turn on the lights you still have the advantage of knowing the layout, and you can wait at the ready to see if they advance to your position. If you have called 911 immediately the clock is counting down in your favor.

In my case, the perimeter doors and windows are alarmed so if there is a break in that call will go out to police in addition to my 911 call. The alarm siren is so piercing that I can't stand it more than a few seconds when I am testing it. So while I am upstairs, in the dark, behind closed doors, armed to the teeth; there is an intruder downstairs in the dark, with the siren from hell going off, and the law on the way. I'm betting they exit quickly, but if they still advance on my position that siren will be the last thing they hear.
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Old July 10, 2008, 11:54 AM   #38
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At no time of the day are all of the dogs in one place in our house except by coincidence. If someone breaks in, at least some of the dogs will be involved. Now, do I sit in my room and hope how ever many dogs are in the fight can controll the situation, or do I add some more dogs and some firepower while the BGs are rather busy trying not to get torn apart?
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Old July 10, 2008, 02:30 PM   #39
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If you think running down a hall towards armed inviduals is a good plan when you have other options which may be better in saving YOUR life - then it's your choice.
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Old July 10, 2008, 03:02 PM   #40
.300H&H
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A good dog can be a good ounce of prevention - and a well-trained good dog can be a friendly 24/7 security guard. Anecdotal: I know of a local country store where a man some years ago came in and attempted an armed robbery. He didn't pay enough attention to the store owner's well-trained shepherd that was laying quietly on the floor behind the counter. The bad guy blinked...and in the blink of an eye he lost his gun and needed about 150 stitches. My dogs are well-trained and they have better instincts/reflexes than I do in a crisis.


Dogs, Cell Phones, access to a firearm - can all work well. Plan of escape?
The best laid plans can fall to ruin. It's good to keep options open - and not have a 'plan' that is too tight or confining. Cell Phones are wonderful. I don't have children in the house or children that visit...so I can afford to keep a few things stashed in places<including cell phones>that might come in handy. It's nothing interfering with one's lifestyle...but there's no area of the house where I would feel 'trapped.'


Surveillance systems are great too. In fact, I'd say 'prevention' is key. Escape plans are okay, but one gets more bang for the buck with $ and time spent on prevention. If someone breaks in while I'm in the house asleep - the first prevention is to have something that will will make sure I'm alerted in time to the break-in. Makes no sense to have an escape plan, if I won't even know if somebody has broken in and invaded. If somebody is on top of me, then any escape plan sorta flies out the window. My Home is My Castle and the Castle Doctrine applies... I wouldn't mind having a good moat.
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Old July 10, 2008, 04:30 PM   #41
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I live in a 2-story home with all bedrooms on the 2nd story. There is also a basement with its own door and 4 windows. I have a couple of kids who are usually off to college. Their bedrooms are in between my bedroom (at the end of the hall) and the top of the stairs.

I have an alarm system (which I'm sure could be defeated, but probably not by anyone who might be primarily desiring to inflict injury on the family) on all doors and windows on the basement and first floor levels, and also a watch-cat that is probably somewhat less than reliable .

If the kids are away I would certainly not charge down the hall to face an intruder. However, if they are home, I would have no choice but to get down that hall to their rooms asap.
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Old July 10, 2008, 04:39 PM   #42
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If a team of 6 intruders (as in the post earilier) come though our door it will be a sad day. As a door is a tactical advantage. One allows limited number to go though it. Mossberg 590 and Xd 40 can easily pick them as they enter my bedroom. 8 shots of 12ga 00 buckshot and 60 rounds 40 plus 5 rounds of silvertips in my wife's 357 I take my chances in my bedroom. Our master has multi walls and large enought to set up to aim at the door, in several places. It was a factory in my choice of home. Thinking ahead and CYA myself.
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Old July 10, 2008, 08:35 PM   #43
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great home defence

This is how my family handles our h/d needs.My primary weapon of choice is a mossberg 12 gauge pump with a rifled slug barrel and a backup s&w 686 357 strapped and holstered on a clip on belt.I leave the bedroom and check the rest of the house while my wife directs me on the bedroom tv monitors.If the intruder gets past me then my wife will be waiting behind a locked door with her 410 filled with slugs and a snubbie 357 for back up..I have 3 nightvision cameras outside and 3 nightvision cameras inside.The first inside camera is above my bedroom door facing at an angle down,and the second is above the door facing into the kitchen at the back of the house and the 3rd is facing up the stairs to the kids room(no sneaking in or out for our sons)I know i sound a bit paranoid but if there is a bump in the night i want and can to see it from either back door or front.The cameras help us see whats on the other side of the door before we shoot.We also have 2-way radios with ear pieces for my wife and i,and in the kids room we have baby monitors that get turned on every night.Again i know this sounds crazy but as the old saying goes,tis better to have and not need than to need and not have.Oh by the way the cameras i use came from walmart and were only 78.99 a pair.
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Old July 10, 2008, 09:02 PM   #44
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I'm just too old to be going out a window to a concrete/gravel landing 8 feet below the bottom of it.

I'm staying in my bedroom, . . . watching both doors, . . . and if either opens up, . . . it will only be after they have ID'd themselves as LEO, . . . and since I know a few of those who would respond, . . . I feel OK as having a good plan.

My wife is a non canine person, . . . and her fat old momma cat won't attack much at all, . . .

But I've got guns, . . . I've got ammo, . . . and I've got the rest of my life to lay around my bedroom, . . . the bg in the living room only has until the red/white/blue lights start pouring into my driveway, . . . then he has to make some kind of move.

May God bless,
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Old July 10, 2008, 09:42 PM   #45
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............and I'm 68, so I'm REALLY too old for anything except to lie in bed with the shotgun under the covers.
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Old July 11, 2008, 02:01 PM   #46
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Now, do I sit in my room and hope how ever many dogs are in the fight can controll the situation, or do I add some more dogs and some firepower while the BGs are rather busy trying not to get torn apart?
Sit in your room. Why in the world would anyone want to give up a position of tactical superiority that enhances your chances of survival? As has been pointed out several times,even the police do not house-clear by themselves. It puts you at such a disadvantage that it is hard to understand why anyone would even contemplate it with the exception of something along the lines of "got to get the kids."

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I leave the bedroom and check the rest of the house while my wife directs me on the bedroom tv monitors.
As above, why?? Particularly if you have monitors to watch.
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Old July 11, 2008, 02:20 PM   #47
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Going down a hallway is walking through the 'fatal' funnel.
Indeed. I would not leave the bedroom. I would not peak out the bedroom door. Keep the bedroom door closed (locked if possible). Now they have to come through a fatal funnel to get you.
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Old July 11, 2008, 03:43 PM   #48
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Thing is, my children are in the other half of the house, and if I hear my dog barking for ANY reason, I am up, out of bed and clearing the house. The kids know not to get out of bed for any reason if the dog is barking, and most of the time they dont even wake up. I leave night lights on in the house strategiclly placed so as to cast a shadow on the walls in my line of sight. I have a partition wall that is perpendicular to my bedroom door that I have ripped the sheet rock out and put nothing but solid 2x4s across the opening, so if someone shoots in my direction I will have at least some sort of barrier to stop or slow down what ever may be slung my way. I've walked my house many times, over and over in the dark and know my lanes of fire to keep my kids and neighbors safe. I have done this in every home i have lived in, taken the steps, know my lanes and outlets. And I dont trust anyone, because I have seen best friends and even family come into homes and kill. You may call it paranoia, I call it preparedness.
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Old July 14, 2008, 04:37 AM   #49
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Re: Alarms... check with your alarm company to see if there is a way to wire the alarm to sound if the wires are cut. A friend figured a way to do this with his alarm unit in the event someone cut the phone lines.

Re: Two Story homes... The top of the stairwell is a fair defensive position, but only if you can see down the stairs far enough and/or have a wall to conceal yourself behind.

An older home layout had the stairs do a 90-degree turn halfway up and the stairs emptied into the end of a long hallway. In essence, once someone came around the corner, they could see the length of the hallway. In such cases, defending from a nearby bedroom/bathroom doorway may be a better option.

An escape plan that isn't too detailed is a good idea. For instance... one parent exits first and helps children out of the house. They then flee to a neighbor nearby selected for screening bushes or their known willingness to respond and help. If separated, children should know who's house to go to and to NEVER return home until police or parents say it's safe.

If you have a stealthy intruder, when police arrive they may need access to the house. Keep spare house key(s) attached to a ring along with a light-stick. Attach a clear plastic "map pouch" to the ring too. Inside the map pouch, put a simple illustration of your home's floorplan. When needed, once police arrive, activate the lightstick and throw the assemblage into the yard or driveway. At night the glowing lightstick is self-identifying. If the situation goes south into a hostage or stand-off situation, they have a map of the house and know where you are by cell phone.

Multiple Intruders:
If you are sure there are multiple intruders, use your room to maximum advantage. Barricade the door with furniture, the bed or simply blankets...anything to slow down opening the door. Remember that most walls are simply concealment... if they're beating at the door, your first shot(s) thru the door may score or deter them. If a bedroom wall is along the hallway, shots through the wall into the hallway may also be useful. (Protect yourself from incoming on the same wall!) Of course, be sure you know what is across the hallway too.

If multiple intruders are present and forcing the bedroom door, this is the correct time to be prepared to expend ammo at a high rate. Showing of considerable firepower will deter them from entry. Opening a window may also help draw attention to the noise. Contrary to popular opinion, gunfire inside a home is not very loud from outside if the house is closed up in the winter.
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Old July 14, 2008, 11:07 PM   #50
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I Will Not Run Or Retreat In My Own Home.

End Of Story
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