The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old August 17, 2008, 04:35 AM   #51
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Good news is if you hit your target, it would retain a LOT of energy.

I knew there was a reason I wanted an open site, short range rifle....
I can't see my 270 yard drives land most of the time, now....
Socrates is offline  
Old August 17, 2008, 08:21 AM   #52
pbrktrt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 9, 2008
Posts: 313
Norma now offers their custom rifle in .280 Ackley improved. that should meet your requirements.
pbrktrt is offline  
Old August 17, 2008, 08:40 AM   #53
45Marlin carbine
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2007
Location: South-Western North Carolina
Posts: 1,124
I have an '06 Ruger I consider max range humane shot with 400 yards if I was to practice at that range, I have it sighted at 100 and never had to shoot at game past about 150 so far.
I'd choose the .300 Weatherby myself and practice with it.
45Marlin carbine is offline  
Old August 17, 2008, 04:02 PM   #54
chuckscap
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2007
Posts: 120
If you sight in a 500g bullet at 2400 fps (assuming 470 Capstick Swift A-Frame) 2.5" high at 100 yards, you're dead on at 25 yards, don't have to worry about hold over out to 200 yards, then 6" low at 250 about 12" low at 300. I wouldn't shoot that cartridge further than that and only of course at plains game past 100 yards. Why hunt dangerous game if you're going to shoot them from more than 25 yards away?

Chuck

Last edited by chuckscap; August 17, 2008 at 05:54 PM.
chuckscap is offline  
Old August 18, 2008, 08:41 AM   #55
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Chuck:
Would you please run numbers on 500 and 600 grain bullets, maybe 550's too, in 458, and .475, at 500 yards zero?

Maybe 400's too. 400's at 2900 fps would make a real intresting cat and buffalo load...
Socrates is offline  
Old August 18, 2008, 09:46 AM   #56
Wildebees
Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2008
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 89
Those l-o-n-g shots

Just to post something- I am bored with reading only...

Bought some meat at a butcher's during my holiday in the Eastern Cape. Kudu country, very dense bush, so shooting (hunting?) is slope to slope across the valley. This guy had many photo's of himself and his dead kudu in his meat shop, taken over the years, with distances like 733 yards, none closer than 500.

Talked to him a little and I came to the conclusion he was an excellent marksman but not so good in range estimation..

But it is true, some guys regularly shoot springbok with their .270W at 300 yds. They also wound some.

An animal shot at such long distance accross a valley may jump and run away and when you get to the position where he stood, and if you can find it exactly after the 600 yards slog through the dense bush (if you even take the trouble to go there) you may not be able to follow the tracks. To make certain that it was NOT wounded is rather necessary, I believe.

I once went out with a hunting party in Namibia, all members of a local legal firm - they in fact chartered my aircraft to take them there - so I hunted with them, except that I walked on my own. I am not a corporate man.

I hunted each area the day after they had hunted it. Found one of each kudu, gemsbok and hartebeest and a few springbok carcasses, most of them with perfectly placed shots.

Lesson? If the animal does not drop dead at your shot it does not say that it was not a perfect shot. So one must take the trouble and check out carefully. But worse, it may have been a low or a high shot, or the wind may have put it into the stomach (although the slap of the strike is unmistakable)(Of course I've done it.(Twice!).

Problem is, with that LONG shot you may not find the exact position where the thing had stood and then you have a problem to get all the facts.
__________________
"Do you not know that all human ills and mean-spiritedness and cowardice arise not from death but from fear of death? Against this therefor fortify yourself....then you shall find that by this alone are men made free."
Wildebees is offline  
Old August 18, 2008, 02:42 PM   #57
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,593
I am not advocating extreme range gameshooting,but as a toolmaker I built a rifle for the task you describe.
First,I selected a projectile.I wanted a high ballistic co-efficient,good penetration and a broad range of performance velocity.I chose a 200 gr Nosler accubond,30 cal. Cartridge is 30-338.Velocity 2900.
I had a Husquvarna magnum bolt face action,so I trued and lapped the locking surfaces,squared the receiver ring,and surface ground the reciever bottom.
I put a 26 in Lilja #3 stainless barrel on it.

Hi-tec specialties stock,,ss pillars,steelbed,freefloat,canjar trigger,blind box.

Scope is a Leupold 3.5-10 x 40 mm,Boone and Crockett.

If I zero center crosshair @300 ,the B+C gives correct zero @ 4 and 5.I have not bench verified longer ranges,but I have useful aiming points to 600 meters.

My crosswind value comes up 12 MPH for the B+C ladder.

At over 700 yds,this will still hit like a 30-40 Krag at 100 yds.(I live @5000ft,and the elk are uphill from here).

I have whacked a deer and a pronghorn with it,less meat damage than my .257 AI.
But,last year when I went Elk hunting,I carried my 21 in bbl 375-338.I wasn't figuring on shooting at elk past 300 ish.
HiBC is offline  
Old August 18, 2008, 07:16 PM   #58
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,187
Why do so many want to shoot deer and elk out to 500 yards-others coyote out to 400??

Perhaps many of those 400 yd shots are really 135 yards.
langenc is offline  
Old August 18, 2008, 08:59 PM   #59
HiBC
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 13, 2006
Posts: 3,593
Appologies for going off topic.

Using the example of my .257 AI,115 gr a 3055,chronographed,the 6x42mm leupold on it has a 2 mil,or approx 7 MOA duplex.A brisket to whithers fit in the duplex means a little over 200 yds.I zero it dead on @ a measured 300.I can estimate and kentucky a bit with that rifle till an antelope is nearly small enough to be a crosshair to post fit,then I know we are approaching 400 and it is a wrong idea.I also use a Leica laser,so in either case,I am not just eyeballing range.I have access to a 4 section ranch and I have places measured out to 1090 to practice,and at that range I have put 3 rounds through a bleached out cow scapula that woulkd have made about a 6 inch group.I practice shooting at long ranges.
Once,lasered,layed over my pack,not much breeze,I did a 430 yd antelope shot.One shot instant kill,but no brag shot.Hit it in the neck,aiming heart lung.
Could have been an esophagus shot,or an anteloped stepping on his intestines real easy.It made me think.
The wind is in threads,it is a constant variable.Ref the book "Position Rifle Shooting",he says sandbag a riflescope on a target a 600 early in the morning.
Wait for the mirage to build.You may find your target "moved "3 feet.

I described building a 30-338 in a post above.I actually used Leupold data for the scope values ,loading manuals,and my Sierra ballistic software to design the trajectory of the cartridge to match Leupolds reticle before I built the rifle.I also knew I wanted a minimum impact velocity of 2200 fps@ 600.

I can make a hit at long range,but I still believe Hunting,past about 3 one has to be willing to say,no,it is iffy.Sometimes a little over 4 can be pushed,but there is chance.
Don't get me wrong,I can most likely get a one shot kill on a deer at 800,but I don't accept the risk because wounding is too ugly.
I watched some elk hunt video about crossing hilltops and shooting across valley at 4 to 6+ hundred.One hunter got a one shot kill.The rest shot the legs,butt,guts,reloading and needing 3 to 5 hits to bring down an elk.
Just not my style.
I want to know where my bullet is going to hit,not hope it hits.

I love the technology of rifles,but the HUNTER,can use a 30-40 Krag or a .303 and get 150 or less away and kill anything.
HiBC is offline  
Old August 19, 2008, 10:40 AM   #60
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,467
I'll stick a comment in here about range estimation. My uncle was a gunsmith, and often sighted in rifles for people at his 100-yard range. His common sight-in was for 2" high at 100 yards, which works quite well for almost all of the non-magnum deer cartridges and for the typical distances at which 90+% of all deer are shot.

So a customer comes in, complaining that Joe's sight-in didn't work. He'd missed a deer at 300 yards. Joe takes him and the rifle to the bench. "Yeah, that's it! That's 300 yards," the customer exclaimed. They darned near got in a fight over it, with the customer refusing to believe that the "long distance" was only one hundred yards...
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Old August 19, 2008, 11:03 AM   #61
Wildebees
Member
 
Join Date: August 9, 2008
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 89
L-o-o-o-o-n-g shots

Friend, don't do it. It is not necessary. If the game in any area is so spooky that you have to shoot at it beyond 300 yards they may need a rest, don't you think?

This not meant as criticism, just my little two cents worth of honest opinion.
__________________
"Do you not know that all human ills and mean-spiritedness and cowardice arise not from death but from fear of death? Against this therefor fortify yourself....then you shall find that by this alone are men made free."
Wildebees is offline  
Old August 22, 2008, 09:34 AM   #62
Water-Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2008
Location: N. Georgia
Posts: 1,535
.300 Weatherby Mag.
__________________
PROUD TO BE A VETERAN
Water-Man is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 12:28 AM   #63
JGC
Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2011
Location: WonderLand
Posts: 53
since you reload i would think a 300win mag would fit the bill, same bullets or heavier than 308 and 30-06 going faster a + for long range, you keep repeating the term "long range" and its hard to argue with what will make the distance because mostly all will, the question is how will they behave in the wind/conditions and what type of energy will that round be able to deliver, all basic ballistics if you ask me, look it up and compare drop charts/wind/energy it will soon start to be clear which outshines who for "long range", what type of game are you taking? a 300 win mag will take anything in the u.s if not nothing else can do much better or theres always the 338 lapua being you want to go custom, get a stiller with a krieger and a aics with a nightforce and there you go how much do you want to spend and how far do you want to go? a 250gr will devastate and do its job on elk and anything even close to that size, a 300gr should be good medicine of a grizzly, but a good 210 or 230gr 300win mag(since you reload) should do both really well and at distance you wont be facing a charging animal, doubt any of them will make it past 50 yards with a solid hit.
JGC is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 07:15 AM   #64
Jack O'Conner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2005
Location: Lancaster County, Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,475
My Remington .308 carbine took down this pronghorn buck at approx 325 yards. At the shot the animal toppled right over and kicked a few times.

Jack

__________________
Fire up the grill! Deer hunting IS NOT catch and release.
Jack O'Conner is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 01:04 PM   #65
Daryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 11, 2008
Posts: 2,350
I've been hunting with a 7mm rem mag since 1986. Long shots have been rare, but do happen where J hunt. Longest shot in that time was 472 yards on. A coues deer down in sonora,
Daryl is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 03:58 PM   #66
Bigfatts
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2005
Location: Lutz
Posts: 1,495
I'll put a plug in for the 6.5x55. Pretty flat shooting and enough wallop to put a deer down at 500yds.
Bigfatts is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 04:08 PM   #67
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
7 WSM or .284 winchester. Throwing 180gr Bergers


http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubb...Number=2924905
__________________
"Combined synergy of a man and rifle is matchless, the steadiness of hand and acuity of vision, and finally the art of knowing how to make the rifle an extension of the body, all equate to the ultimate synthesis of man and machine."

"Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back."
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 04:23 PM   #68
farmerboy
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 16, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 1,343
30-06 or a 270. alot of bullet choices for the 06 and can find commercial ammo for both pretty much everywhere.
farmerboy is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 07:55 PM   #69
publius
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2005
Location: Mississippi/Texas
Posts: 2,448
A .300Mag. would be my choice out of what you listed but I really dig the .264 Win. Mag.
__________________
"Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress, but I repeat myself." Mark Twain
publius is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 07:59 PM   #70
arch308
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 6, 2011
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 876
If it can't be done with a 30-06, it probably can't be done.
I believe that's a quote from Jeff Cooper.
arch308 is offline  
Old January 18, 2012, 08:29 PM   #71
603Country
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2011
Location: Thornton, Texas
Posts: 2,252
The caliber I'd think about would be the 6.5-06, which is like the 260 Remington with a little extra muscle. The recoil would be reasonable, so that practice wouldn't be unpleasant. I'd then get a really good rangefinder and a really expensive scope with dial-the-distance turrets. All that would be wasted, however, on somebody that hasn't hunted and target shot for years (a comment NOT aimed at the OP). That'd be a decent set-up for deer, coyote, and pigs. I doubt that's enough power for larger animals. As for shooting game at 500 or 600 yards, that's up to each person, but I"ll pass. I'll shoot at a coyote at 400, but I keep the deer shooting at about 300 max, and only if it's under ideal conditions. For me, 500 yards is just out of the question for several reasons.
603Country is online now  
Old January 18, 2012, 09:22 PM   #72
MOshooter65202
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2011
Posts: 470
I really like my 7mm rem mag for Elk and Deer.
MOshooter65202 is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 01:00 AM   #73
Stick_man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 18, 2008
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 241
If you are talking of an Uberdistancesmashemboomer, and cost is not part of the equations but a less common caliber is, why not go for a .308 Norma Mag or a .30-338 or even one of the H&H's?

Personally, my choice would probably be the 7mmSTW for those times when you absolutely, positively, without a doubt needed to reach out and touch something.

Now, if you are wanting some real knockdown power out at long range, check out the custom built 700 a friend made. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFYXTH7Gdhk
Stick_man is offline  
Old January 26, 2012, 11:13 AM   #74
Art Eatman
Staff Lead
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX, USA
Posts: 22,467
I tried really, really hard, but my time mosheen wouldn't go back four years.
__________________
You're from BATFE? Come right in! I use all your fine products!
Art Eatman is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12980 seconds with 7 queries