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Old July 6, 2008, 05:39 PM   #1
kristop64089
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What makes Sig so great?

I am on my Second one (a non railed p229 40 S&W, with 357sig barrel on B.O.)
So far no complaints.

On my first go round, I had a horrible experience. I recieved my P220, it had a horrible finish, and showed tool marks everywhere. Plus it dropped hot brass down my back religously.

Here is what I have gathered on Sig from experience, and observation.
- Sigs DA trigger sucks.
- Their Nitron Finish is weak at best
- They have a-lot of take up in SA
- Long trigger reset
- Accuracy is excellent
- Little reports of failures
- Sights are marginal
- Controls are awkward
- Grips are to thick (On both single and double stack guns), Wood only makes it thicker.
- High bore axis.

Personnally I like Sigs, I just had a bad experience. But, in the general public's eye, what makes the so good?
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Old July 6, 2008, 05:43 PM   #2
Glockeroo
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What makes Sig so Great?

I don't think they are great. I think they're just ok. I've never understood the hype about them.
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Old July 6, 2008, 05:45 PM   #3
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he-he,here comes the SIG train........

CHOO! CHOO!
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Old July 6, 2008, 05:47 PM   #4
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Quote:
On my first go round, I had a horrible experience. I recieved my P220, it had a horrible finish, and showed tool marks everywhere. Plus it dropped hot brass down my back religously.

Here is what I have gathered on Sig from experience, and observation.
- Sigs DA trigger sucks.
- Their Nitron Finish is weak at best
- They have a-lot of take up in SA
- Long trigger reset
- Accuracy is excellent
- Little reports of failures
- Sights are marginal
- Controls are awkward
- Grips are to thick (On both single and double stack guns), Wood only makes it thicker.
- High bore axis.

Personnally I like Sigs, I just had a bad experience. But, in the general public's eye, what makes the so good?
1) their DA trigger is better than 90% of the others out there. Try an HK if you think SIG is bad and I LOVE my HKs.
2)The SA trigger can be worked on just like any other trigger.
3)see #2 it can be worked on
4)They are known for accuracy yes
5)Little reports of failure. This is a BIG part of why SIG is so highly regarded
6)The sights can be easily replaced and FWIW they beat out some of the other sights such as Glock. Glock sights work, but they wear heavily when holstered because they are plastic.
7)Controls are awkward? same can be said for any gun which you are not intimately familiar with
8)Thick grips is a preference for some, they like to feel like their hand is wrapped around something that feels solid.
9) Bore axis? Please...if this REALLY makes a difference you need to shoot more. Bore axis is a term people throw around when in reality it does very little for a competant shooter.
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Old July 6, 2008, 05:55 PM   #5
kristop64089
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My biggest gripe with Sigs, is they are just not as CCW friendly as other guns.
I had an HK and despised the trigger.
I could care less about bore Axis, or the controls. But I don't like spending money on a gun, just to "refine" it.
But, seeing it is meant to be a duty gun, I'm willing to overlook some of these "shortcomings"
And FWIW, Glock offers factory steel sights(I order them on mine)
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:22 PM   #6
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They offer it, but go to a gunshop and none of them will have it. So you have to equate the new sights into the price.
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:32 PM   #7
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Three things:

They are accurate, reliable, and most of all - accurate...

I have long been a SiG fan and have half-a-dozen of them now, though I have owned many more in the past. Other than my P7M8's and high-end 1911's, nothing seems to rival their accuracy.

That said, I have twice as many S&W 3rd Gen DAO autos, as their ergos trump SiG's accuracy...unless, of course, we're just punchin' paper...

FWIW - the high-bore axis deal is a complete non-factor, and is really getting old...
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:34 PM   #8
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Kristop, you and I are usually so close on everything...

I gotta fight ya' on this one...


except being far heavier than any of my other carry guns I give them a resounding 10.

As far as the trigger, have it smoothed... it'll likely drop to 8lbs DA and 3.4lbs SA like most of mine have. The accuracy is second to none for me, and with exception of 3 stoppages at the end of near 500 rounds of lacquer coated wolf a few weekends ago, I've yet to make any of them stop. (and a couple have 15,000-20,000 rounds through them)

We all replace the sights (unless you get the Siglites from the factory) and the high bore axis is 95% crap. Use a firmer grip.



SiG is top notch in everyway, but like everything, somefolks just don't get along with them. No fault of the product.
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:41 PM   #9
kristop64089
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Dwatts, long time-no-see

i have no real "beef" with Sig. I'm just curious as to others. One thing is for sure tho, my 220's trigger beats this 229's trigger, hands down.
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:45 PM   #10
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Quote:
Dwatts, long time-no-see

i have no real "beef" with Sig. I'm just curious as to others. One thing is for sure tho, my 220's trigger beats this 229's trigger, hands down.
No kidding man, I have been BUSY!!

and yeah, every 220 trigger I've ever felt has been better than any 229 I've ever felt.

Also, though asthetically, my 229ST in all stainless is unbeatable...I don't shoot it aswell as any 220,225 or 226 that I've got.
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Old July 6, 2008, 09:30 PM   #11
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My state police department has issued the 226 for about 18 years, first in 9MM now 40 S&W. NEVER a problem withb reliability. I just dont shoot any SIG well. Our new boss has allowed any siderarm you can quakify with for carry now.. I'm back to the 45 auto. Shooting my 45s had reduced my 25 yard group by half over what I shoot with any SIG.

They are reliable though. I never felt undergunned when armed with one.
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Old July 6, 2008, 09:57 PM   #12
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I own 5 Sigs. I shoot three of them in IPSC, never had a failure of any kind. They are as accurate as you are capable of. Your comment on the thickness of the grips baffles me. It's been my experience that most small handed shooters prefer Sigs. My 11 year old shoots a P226. Their motto is To Hell and Back Reliability. I would agree with that.

Add on that they are more accurate than any other gun I've ever fired and well, I think that's all that one needs.

I will admit that they are not cheap and other than the Pro 2022 and the P250, they are not the most concealable firearm you can own.

That having been said, Sigs may not be for you. No problem, more for me. People swear by Glocks, I however don;t like them and don't shoot well with them. I've watched them fail on in the middle of a competition so while others SWEAR by Glock, they aren't for me.

Go forth young man and find the weapon that is great.... for you.

Hmmm, doing a little research I found this: http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...82#post2928982

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IMO:
- 1911 style pistol(Commander size is my choice)
- Ruger Single six convertible
- Ruger GP-100 6"
- Sig 229
- Glock G19
- Glock G20
- Ruger MKII/III Hunter (6-7/8 barrel)
- S&W 649
- CZ PCR D
- Ruger SBH 44mag
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You list a Sig as one of your must have guns. Are you confused? Bad day at the range?

By the way, I agree on most of your list. I also note that you list a 1911 first. That may explain your issue with Sig controls and grip thickness.
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Old July 6, 2008, 11:09 PM   #13
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Reliability
Accuracy
Superlative DA pull (and I too like my HK's but their DA pull is like pulling a locomotive with your pinkie compared to the Sig DA pull!..luckily I carry SA cocked and locked )
Ruggedness
Decent Ergos
They even look cool

Sigs are great guns overall..I don't have one, but would like one..actually what I would love to have is a Sig that is stamped Made in West Germany

And I agree about the bore axis thing largely being a Mall Ninja preoccupation
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Old July 6, 2008, 11:42 PM   #14
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Q: What makes Sig so great?

A: Marketing
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Old July 6, 2008, 11:44 PM   #15
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My sig is stamped "Made in west germany" I bought it because it was 450 and in great shape.

Since then I'm a big Sig fan. Accurate, Reliable....that's all you need.
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Old July 6, 2008, 11:48 PM   #16
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Free kool-aid.
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Old July 7, 2008, 12:21 AM   #17
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Glock kool-aid drinkers looking for revenge...
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Old July 7, 2008, 01:31 AM   #18
jlh26oo
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Sigs are big and heavy for their capacity, long relative to barrel length and sight radius, finish is not the best, they are a little expensive, have a high bore axis, and I too dislike "dot-the-i" type sights (why I go with three dot N.S.'s)!

Quote:
But, in the general public's eye, what makes the so good?
I.D.K. about the G.P. because I can't speak for everyone. But for me, it's the T.D.A. trigger and Sig ergonomics. The grip is generous enough and nicely contoured to fill large hands- I find its shape facilitates an identical grip every time I draw or pick it up. And while they are probably not the best value out there (I.E. Ruger, GLOCK, C.Z., S&W etc are all high quality, accurate, and reliable too, for less money), I find their price point generally lies between that of GLOCK and H.K. (if you shop around, ~$600 N.I.B. with N.S. is not uncommon). This approaches the upper limit of what I care to spend on a handgun, but well worth it I.M.O.

Because the P220 is one smooth shooting .45 A.C.P.!
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Old July 7, 2008, 01:38 AM   #19
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I finally got to shoot my new Sig p226 Blackwater yesterday. I was going nuts. I think you pay a few hundred bucks more for the name but I think that's the case with Colt and HK too. I think the DA pull on the Sigs is a lot better than most. It's supposed to be long and heavy for a reason. At least with Sig that long and heavy is also consistent and smooth.

I'm also not real sold on the nitron finish but I'll have more to say on that after a few years of holster wear and abuse. If you have a problem with the reset than well I don't know what to tell you. You'd be hard pressed to find a DA/SA stock gun with a better trigger. The controls are different but are not hard to get used to. That's universal though and not just a Sig thing.

Thickness....yep they're thick. A lot of people prefer that though and I guess they cater to those people.

The sights thing IMO is always just a personal preference. You may find an unrealiable piece of junk you'd never buy has the best sights for you. I happen to like the night sights on mine but I understand personal preference.

All in all you make some good points but I disagree with many as well. IMO you're looking at them to be more 1911 like and they just aren't.

On a sidenote I had a nice time at the range. It had been way too long since I had a nice long relaxing session like that. I took the p226, Beretta PX4, and ruger p95. I shot the beretta the worst but it's a .40SW. I need to shoot it more to improve with it. No failures with any of them except for a light primer strike with the ruger. It went off with a double action pull. I can't say that was the gun though this was some cheap ammo. I did learn I need to practice more with DA shooting on all three guns.
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Old July 7, 2008, 02:53 AM   #20
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I love the grip on my P220. It gives me a solid feel which gives me more control over my aim. I don't get any fidgety aiming with my Sig. I've looked at a lot of guns lately and the Sig grips rate right at the top IMO. But that's an area where everyone has their preference.

I also love the accuracy of my Sig. I can shoot a 3 inch group from a prone position at 30 yards with my Sig. That should be good enough for anyone except Annie Oakley or Wild Bill and they used a gun with a longer barrel.

Dependability is another positive. I've shot over 10K rounds through mine and the only problems I've had have been mag related. It works perfectly now.

I think it looks very good which isn't usually big on my list of stuff I look for but it is there. The finish may not be the very best on my blued version but not many blued guns have a truly great finish. I still have a good looking gun after pulling it out of my holster hundreds of times or more. If I let it get wet I might see a little rust on the slide release but a few strokes with a brush and some fresh oil and it's back looking good. I've certainly never lost enough metl to amount to a hill of beans.

I can conceal my Sig just fine in the winter when I can wear a jacket. I did buy a smaller gun for CCW in the summer months.

I wish the capacity was higher and I wish it was a little lighter but other than that I have zero problems with my "Made In W. Germany" P220. I can count on it to work when I pull the noise lever and I can count on hitting what I'm aiming at or at least getting very close. Heck I nearly shot a butterfly out of the air with it at 30 yards one day. We were shooting down into a river so I know how close I was. I did shoot leafs floating by all day.

I also like the availability of the Lasermax internal laser sight. It's as unobtrusive as it gets and you don't need to leave it on and warn the BG's they are targeted where they stand. And it's a rugged sight even if it is way too expensive. Some day I'll stop buying more guns and get me one of those sights.

They are a top notch gun IMO. The stuff about the bore axis is a lot of hooey to me. I prefer a gun to have a little flip to it. I can get it back on target quickly because I actually practice with it.

I paid $550 for mine when it was a year old. It had some signs of being used a lot but it's a Sig. Who cares if it's been used a lot. It has shot like a dream for me for 10k rounds. I just saw another model just like mine in perfect condition for the same price I paid. I felt like buying it too but I already had one.

For a duty gun that can be carried concealed in the winter I don't think you can do better than this gun. If you wear it around enough you will get used to the weight if you use a shoulder harness. I wear mine at home a lot just to develop my muscles I use for carrying it. I'll got out in my buildings and work around all day with it hanging on my shoulders. After a few days of this I forget it's even there.

To me it's a near perfect everyday working gun. I'll never sell it unless I'm starving or something or I really need a tank of gas.
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Old July 7, 2008, 06:15 AM   #21
kristop64089
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Quote:
You list a Sig as one of your must have guns. Are you confused? Bad day at the range?
I think Sigs are a Must Have gun. Especially based on reliability
I don't think there is a "perfect gun" (although in SA 1911's are close), But it really appears that many people think Sigs are. I'm wondering how much is marketing/hearsay, and how much is experience?

I probably could have worded my thread different. I am not unhappy with my 229 at all. I am just trying to figure out what makes them better than "brand X"
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Old July 7, 2008, 06:38 AM   #22
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Better than brand X?

Nothing!

Sigs are good guns, I have had several, just never warmed up to them. Some seem a bit costly for what you get but not as costly as H&K's.
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Old July 7, 2008, 06:46 AM   #23
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Sigs

Sigs may not be so great. I've owned several and sold them all off. No problems, I just did not "like" them enough to keep. They are a good accurate, reliable pistol in my experience. With the 220 being apparently the most reliable and best of the Models. The other models failed reliability and durability testing for police use. Or so I've been told by two evaluators at gun shows. Parts breakage was common to all - except the 220's. All I have owned were the Model 220. They do have good sights. I like the "dot the "I" or as some call them "loli-pop on a stick".
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Old July 7, 2008, 07:26 AM   #24
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Sigs

I have sold all my Sigs with the exception of the X-5. I think their quality control is excellent. Nothing in my experience competes with the X-5 pistol. My P226 was accurate but I hated the trigger and my P250 was accurate but I also hated it's trigger. I carry M&P 9's, both the compact and full size. I compete in IDPA with the Pro. For everything else I use the X-5's in 9mm and .40.
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Old July 7, 2008, 08:12 AM   #25
xrocket
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SIGS

I'm still buying them.



Five to date and at least three more Sigs over the next year or two.


Excluding 1911 variations and considering a manufactures line-up top to bottom in automatic pistols Sig's are right at the top overall with one or two other manufactures.


Well, anyway, that's my opinion and by G until someone proves other wise I'm sticking to my Sigs.



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