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Old July 5, 2008, 02:38 AM   #1
Blue Duck
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Best main battle rifle?

OK, I have an AR-15 .223cal and will probably get a second one. But I also want a heavy hitter in .308 that hopefully will shoot both .308 comerical and mil-surp ammo and be accurate, reliable, and easy to keep working.

I sorta like the AR platform like the DPMS .308, and I hear good things about it, but I am concerned that it doesn't have chrome chamber and bore.

I like the M1A but again the new ones anyway don't have a chrome chamber and bore, and some say they shouldn't be fired much with comerical ammo, do to higher pressures, resulting in bent OP rods.

Then we get to the FALs, and others that I don't know much about, but as least many of these do have chrome chambers and bores, which might make a difference under a real survival siduation.

Maybe a civilian is better off with a good scoped bolt action with a mauser extractor, and possibly a stainless barrel? But I think a good semi-auto with a 20 round mag just might get one out of a tight spot better. I guess the main thing is, I am looking for something that will work, even if it gets abused and put up wet too many times.
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Old July 5, 2008, 03:47 AM   #2
ziggy222
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you already have a fine rifle.if you like it so much and want a hard hitter i suggest an ar10 and you can shoot what you want in it.
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Old July 5, 2008, 03:59 AM   #3
GATMOG
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A good bolt action will be considerably lighter than a semi-auto battle rifle any day of the week..

But if you're like me, you just want one and nothings going to stop you from getting it

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Old July 5, 2008, 08:11 AM   #4
madcratebuilder
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Quote:
OK, I have an AR-15 .223cal and will probably get a second one. But I also want a heavy hitter in .308 that hopefully will shoot both .308 comerical and mil-surp ammo and be accurate, reliable, and easy to keep working.
Do a search here about the headspace requirments to shoot both 308/7.62.

Quote:
I sorta like the AR platform like the DPMS .308, and I hear good things about it, but I am concerned that it doesn't have chrome chamber and bore.
Unless your shooting thousands of rounds per year I feel it's a non issue. I to want a .308 in a AR platform.

Quote:
I like the M1A but again the new ones anyway don't have a chrome chamber and bore, and some say they shouldn't be fired much with comerical ammo, do to higher pressures, resulting in bent OP rods.
It has more to due with the bullet weight, this can be compensated for with a grooved gas piston.

Quote:
Then we get to the FALs, and others that I don't know much about, but as least many of these do have chrome chambers and bores, which might make a difference under a real survival siduation.
Personally I would not be so concerned about a chrome bore. I'm not in the jungle in a combat situation.

Quote:
Maybe a civilian is better off with a good scoped bolt action with a mauser extractor, and possibly a stainless barrel? But I think a good semi-auto with a 20 round mag just might get one out of a tight spot better. I guess the main thing is, I am looking for something that will work, even if it gets abused and put up wet too many times.
Shop around for a older M1A. There are a lot of safe queens out there. I just picked up a M1A, made in 89, with TRW bolt, op-rod, trigger and GI barrel. Looks like it may have been fired a hundred times. This is my second one and well stay a standard GI rifle. It shoots damn near as well as my scoped NM M1A.
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Old July 5, 2008, 09:33 AM   #5
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With a stainless barrel in the DPMS, who cares about chrome. For a bit over a grand you will have a sub-MOA .308. It will be heavy though.
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Old July 5, 2008, 09:50 AM   #6
Stagger Lee
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A competent shooter will whup ass over any techno-kid with a tricked-out "battle rifle" with all the bells and whistles, even if the shooter's lugging a Garand or a Springfield. It's not the rifle, but what you can do with it.

I never tire of seeing the gun store commandos on the range with their new and expensive rifles that will never even be shot in the prone position because it gets them too close to actual dirt. It's fun to outshoot them with my rather shopworn and "experienced" Garand that I've put thousands of rounds through and know very well. When/if they ask, I tell them how it cost me all of $165.00 back when you could still get good rifles way cheap from the CMP...when you actually had to be able to shoot to buy one.
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Old July 5, 2008, 11:08 AM   #7
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You cant beat HK G3! Off course that is if you like 7.62NATO
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Old July 5, 2008, 11:15 AM   #8
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A competent shooter will whup ass over any techno-kid with a tricked-out "battle rifle" with all the bells and whistles, even if the shooter's lugging a Garand or a Springfield. It's not the rifle, but what you can do with it.
Ahhhh, yes...the fading art of iron sight marksmanship.
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Old July 5, 2008, 11:29 AM   #9
Rampant_Colt
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thank you for not saying "Assault Rifle"

I've been eyeing some Garand rifles in various configurations. The one that keeps catching my eye is a .308-chambered Beretta manuf. My only concern is clip availability in .308 caliber, and not -'06.

Check out PTR-91s [G3 clone] and M1A, as well as the most-excellent DPMS .308 AR [AR-10 Improved!] And never discount the excellent, but hard-recoiling FN FAL. [it kicks the hell outta me] G3 mags are dirt cheap and readily available. FAL mags are readily available. M1A mags are available, but quite expensive :barf:

Too bad you couldn't test-fire a few different ones before making your choice..

ps ~ don't forget to check out the various gun forums [ar fifteen dot com, glocktalk, THR, etc..] to get a good idea of the price ranges of the rifles in question--you may even stumble across an excellent deal on something
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Old July 5, 2008, 11:35 AM   #10
Limeyfellow
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Out the ones listed, I still prefer the Fal. It just has wonderful ergonomics in my opinion, easy to break down and clean, reasonably accurate, has an adjustable gas system so can shoot through just about any problems and about as reliable as you can find.
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Old July 5, 2008, 12:19 PM   #11
SR420
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I'm partial to Chinese M14s (Norinco & Poly Tech) with their forged receivers and chrome lined barrels
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Old July 5, 2008, 12:40 PM   #12
Stagger Lee
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.308 Garands use the same clip as the .30-06 rifle does. You just want to make sure that there is a spacer in the magazine to keep .30-06 cartridges out. But why bother, especially with the cost of .308 these days? It's not like you're saving much weight or getting any ballistic improvement worth mentioning. Truth be told, the only time I prefer .308 over .30-06 is when I'm reloading, and only because I use less powder per cartridge in the .308, and when loading hundreds or thousands or rounds, it adds up.

The FAL is a great rifle ergonomically but it--and the G3 clones--lack the wonderful trigger and sights of a Garand or M-1A. Screw all this "chrome barrel" stuff--it's a fine, smooth trigger and precise adjustable sights that set some rifles apart from the herd.
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Old July 5, 2008, 01:14 PM   #13
velocette
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I have an LR 308 B, 18" bull barrel. It is and has been totally reliable, extremely accurate and very comfortable to shoot. I get consistent sub MOA groups with good ammo (my reloads or Federal power shok 150 gr.)
It will shoot any commercial 308 ammo that will fit in the magazine (2.8" or less) & most milsurp except some vile foreign stuff that has coated brass.
The only thing I strongly suggest improving is the trigger group. The stock trigger is horrrrribbbble. (yeah, its that bad). Good reloads using match bullet will yield consistent .68" groups, commercial usually is much worse, except the fed power shok, $14.95 @ Wal-Mart per box of 20

Here's a 10 round 100yd group fired today with the Fed Power Shok 150 gr ammo:

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Old July 6, 2008, 01:54 AM   #14
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With out getting to heavily into it right now (I'm tired an need to go to bed rather than keep on reading about GUNS!)

I'll just say that I love my AR-10 from DPMS. It's an LR-308AP4. I've spent a little money on a new pistol grip, vertical grip, rail covers, side sling attachments, and and different and better (Doesn't rattle) collapsible stock. And I absolutely love it. I was at times, fearful of the "AR reliability" But I've come to the conclusion that as long as I keep it clean and lubed with Slip 2000 EWL it will never have a reason to fail. (I just found out about that Slip 2000 stuff, it's fantastic, all my firearms operate more smoothly with it, and it wont dry out in high heat situations, like during rapid fire with an ar style rifle) Best CLP I've ever used or heard of.

Oh, your also not supposed to use many types of surplus ammo in them, because many of them have coatings that start to stick and soak into the metal, causing ejection problems. I just use commercial ammo. No problems so far, but my rifle is still just barely broken in Also, the AP4 is chambered for 7.62 NATO, and will shoot .308 Winchester (I emailed and asked DPMS just to be sure) But some of the other LR-.308 rifles are not meant to fire 7.62 NATO

Anyway, hear is a link to the thread I started when i was in your same shoes, maybe it will help you. I'd still really like a Springfield Scout Squad, but I've never shot one, so I cant say too much about them. But I absolutely love my DPMS!

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...om+16+vs+ar-10

One more thing. A .308 "Battle rifle" is a great thing to have. And the more accurate the better. It's easy to get used to firing lots of shots at a target out of a .223, but with the .308 ammo being so much more expensive, and the rifle holding 10 less rounds, it almost forces you to slow down and take better and potentially more effective shots.

The DPMS rifles claim between .25 and 1.5 MOA accuracy!
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Old July 6, 2008, 01:01 PM   #15
Blue Duck
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Thanks, for all of the comments and info, fellows.

I still don't know what I want in that area. I ended up buying another AR-15 yesterday, at the gunshow, a Bushmaster 16 inch with 20 inch full length gas tube and handguards.

I saw an FAL, I was tempted to get, but wasn't real clear on which type it was. I was told it was British. Should one get a metric or inch version?

Then again I am sorta leaning towards the DPMS .308 so I can basically keep the same platform as the AR-15 since I am getting into those so deeply.

However, I really would like to learn more about FAL's before I make a decision.

It seems like there is plenty to learn about all of these weapons systems, to advoid costly errors in choosing the initial purchase.
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Old July 6, 2008, 01:28 PM   #16
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Quote:
I saw an FAL, I was tempted to get, but wasn't real clear on which type it was. I was told it was British. Should one get a metric or inch version?
It depends. Metric versions have better parts supply and the majority are in metric. However Imperial measured Fals can take both imperial and metric magazines, and the former are much cheaper than the later.
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:06 PM   #17
mellow_c
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Well, since you just bought another AR-15, I'll assume it will be a bit before you decide on a .308 battle rifle. And thats a good thing, gives you more time to figure out which ones meet your standards, and which one you really want.

I'd say the DPMS in a sure thing no matter what. vs the FAL you wont have to worry about who made it (DPMS), or where it was made, or how it was made. The DPMS will be a good choice no matter what.

But if the FAL is really appealing to you, it will pay to do alot of research and get alot more opinions on who makes them the best. I would really love one, but I got the DPMS instead because it just felt like more of a sure thing. But if you spend time looking for an FAL, I'm sure you'll be very pleased.

And like I said before. I'd really like a Springfield Scout Squad. It's not as "Versatile" as an AR-10. But I really like it's classic rifle styling, and I'd bet that it would survive a long fall, big blast, or getting dirty better than an AR-10 would.

Good luck, I chose the AR-10, and I dont regret it. But any of those 3 will be great for their own reasons. Just keep asking questions, and doing more research!
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:50 PM   #18
.351winchester
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Do yourself a favor and read Boston's Gun Bible. There could be no more of a thorough comparison possible (of over 800 pages, the bulk of the book is devoted to this topic and related-MBR optics, ranking of surplus ammo, etc). I never wanted a .308 till I read this, now I want one more than anything. Trying to decide between a M1A Socom 16, M1A Scout, and standard. Of Any I'd like a SEI M1A-K. I like the DSA Para Congo 18" a lot too. Damn the prices on all these though. Outside a Saiga you're gonna pay thru the nose on anything relative to or about the rifle, even those Saiga mags are a killer.
But like I said, you'll thank me if you check that book out. Really hammers home too how versatile this weapon is, I think if limited to one gun, I'd choose a .308 semi. There's little you CAN'T do with such a firearm. A .223 semi and scoped .308 bolt are both must haves too but...a MBR is greater than the sum of it's parts.
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Old July 6, 2008, 06:52 PM   #19
Tatsumi67
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I would suggest somthing like an AK103,105, reliable, useful and in a caliber that doesnt compromise.
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Old July 7, 2008, 05:49 AM   #20
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Saiga .308
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