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Old June 29, 2008, 07:44 PM   #1
VaTechKA
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Best Home Defense Shotgun

I am trying to find a good home defense shotgun for a low price. I like the pistol grip and 18" barrel for home defense due to maneuverability. What is a good option on a budget? I really like the Remington 870, but I can't afford it. Any other ideas? Mossberg 500 seems popular, but is it a piece of junk?

EDIT: When I say I cant afford the 870, I mean the ones that I am finding for $600+, not the express.
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Old June 29, 2008, 07:47 PM   #2
rantingredneck
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Mossberg 500 and Remington 870 Express are very good guns for not a lot of cash. Used ones abound for less $.

Before you settle on a pistol grip only stock try one out if you can.
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Old June 29, 2008, 07:49 PM   #3
VaTechKA
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I have shot a pistol grip before with slugs and I am comfortable enough with that to hit somebody within a room of my home. Why would you say that it's not necessarily the best option? Because it's harder to control, or harder to aim?
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:03 PM   #4
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Both really.

One of the main benefits of a shotgun is the ability to bring lots of lead to bear quickly, but you still have to hit what your aiming at.

You'll hear a lot on gunforums that you don't have to aim a shotgun. You do. Some folks can shoot a PGO from the hip and reliably and repeatably hit targets with them. Those folks have been around shotguns for a while typically though. Most of them long enough to learn that PGO shotguns work best in the movies.

A properly fitted stock will be just as fast and easy to handle as a PGO. Faster and easier really.

But to each his own. Remington and Mossberg PGO's are both widely available. I've even got a PGO stock for my mossberg 500. It isn't on it, but I have one. Not much more, for me, than a range toy or an option for packing a scattergun on trips where I don't want to carry a conspicous long gun case. Usually I find a way to pack the long gun case.
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:05 PM   #5
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In light of your suggestions, I may go try out the pistol grip again before purchasing. I definitely didn't have any problem with the pistol grip gun at the range, but I will test my skill at greater distance and see how I do. I have much experience with shooting shotguns for sport, but not much experience shooting from the hip haha.
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:08 PM   #6
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Bet you could hit with the pgo if you had an aftermarket laser, or even a very narrow focused beam flashlite, installed on it. I have seen the little tubular lasers with the barrel clamps at gunshows and I don't think they are really super expensive, like laser grips are or something. Theres a new idea-laser pistol grip for shotgun. Might have to stick out a little further on a shotgun to the side, but sounds workable for short range use!
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:09 PM   #7
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Greetings.
I bought my 18" Mossberg new for $240 shipped I beleive. That was 4-6 months ago and I noticed the price went up $20 or so.
I've shot about 100 rounds of slugs, birdshot, and high & low recoil buckshot and it's ran flawless. I totally trust it. I put a Pachmayer Vindicator pistol grip on it too, very nice!
The Mossberg actually passed the military trials so it's got to be tough.
If you had an extra couple hundred dollars I recommend going through the paperwork to get a 14" or less barrel for better manueverability inside the home. If not, an 18" will do.
If you need help finding a good deal let me know. When I was looking, I looked pretty hard to find the best deal.
Take care
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:13 PM   #8
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Tom2 - I like the way you think
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:24 PM   #9
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Don't let people tell you pistol grips are hard to hit with. Nonsense!
I can hit small objects from 15-20 yards away shooting from the hip. You can also raise it to eye level to aim for better accuracy.
The recoil doesn't bother me either. As long as you pull the stock forward with your pumping hand it's not a problem.
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:41 PM   #10
Dave McC
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First, any of you PGO fans live near MD?

I repeat the challenge I first made here 10 years ago. And in that time not ONE PGO fan has taken up the gauntlet.

You pick the COF, range and ammo. You use a PGO shotgun with any and all addons you want from belt feed to lazers.

I'll use a close to stock but well worn 870 with a real stock.

We'll shoot for score with time deciding ties, though there won't be any.

Results will be posted here and on THR.

While some may achieve some measure of proficiency with a PGO shotgun, putting the same time, effort and ammo into a more user friendly weapon will see the shooter becoming absolutely deadly.

And for the original question, darn near any modern US made or badged pump gun will serve well. Just shoot it until it feels like a body part.
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:44 PM   #11
VaTechKA
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Dave -

I don't think I am going to be doing anything like that within my home haha.... We're talking ~10 feet between me and my target... I feel like I could manage that with a pistol grip, but like I said - I am going to go to the range and make sure first.
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Old June 29, 2008, 08:51 PM   #12
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oh boy, here it goes again

get an 870, don't change it except for maybe a mag extension. SHOOT A LOT get really good and sleep well at night. You don't need all that crap hanging off it, you don't need a pistol grip (saw down your stock if you want it closer to your body, this way it is still pretty natural to shoot and balanced)

If you want the next option down buy a used 870, and then if you don't like that idea buy a mossy.

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Old June 29, 2008, 09:04 PM   #13
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I have the perfect solution. I own a Maverick 88 Security. From factory holds 8 shells with one chambered and comes with a 20 inch barrel. Its a good gun all stock, but I upgraded to a Advanced Technologies top folding stock. Great from the hip or folded out for shoulder use. The gun runs around 250 and the stock is about 60 bucks. I spent 10 more bucks and got a 5 shot shell holder for the stock. I absolutely love it, goes everywhere with me. I would upload a picture but its not cooperating. If your really interested I can probably email it to you.
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Old June 29, 2008, 09:20 PM   #14
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Quote:
upgraded to a Advanced Technologies top folding stock
ATI and Upgrade don't go in the same sentence......
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Old June 29, 2008, 09:22 PM   #15
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VATeckKA.

I see you're in Charlotte. If you're gonna be up in the Burlington area any time soon PM me and I'll let you try an 870 and Mossberg 500 side by side. I'll even put the PGO on the Mossberg for you and let you decide which works best.

Seriously.
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Old June 29, 2008, 09:24 PM   #16
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Quote:
but not much experience shooting from the hip haha.
Keep in mind the A team shot from the hip all the time and they never hit anyone in years and years of gunfights. That should be a warning too you.

IMO a short length of pull buttstock (either aftermarket or one of the youth stocks) is just as handy inside a home and still allows you to shoulder and point for longer shots.

Doesn't looks as tacticool maybe, but that can be a good thing. Well, officer, I grabbed my skeet shotgun because he I felt threatened by him... I'm feeling sick. I think I need some time to think and time to talk to my lawyer.
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Old June 30, 2008, 06:54 AM   #17
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A regular stock is easier to stand on end by the bed
If you're in your bedroom, a regular stock shouldn't be much of an issue as far moving around
It is harder to point your shotgun with a PGO stock
The recoil is more severely felt than with a regular stock.

I bought a Mossberg 500 with a PGO years ago - after a session or two, I bought an aftermarket regular plastic stock and put it on and it's been that way ever since

JMO
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Old June 30, 2008, 08:12 AM   #18
Dave McC
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VA Tech, at 10 feet your pattern is palm sized with most ammo. To neutralize a threat at that range, that pattern has to be aimed. That's much easier to do from the shoulder.

Shotguns are not immune from the rules that govern defensive weaponry. That load, to be most effective, has to be inserted into the CNS to ensure an instant stop.

If most any shotgunner with some clays or hunting experience can mount and shoot within a second to hit a moving target 4" or so across, what advantage does a stockless shotgun need to be superior at ANY range or condition?
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Old July 1, 2008, 06:52 PM   #19
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I recently bought a mossberg 500 Persuader 12ga 7+1 shot 3" chamber 20" barrel. sweet peice. waiting on a Hoage pistol grip to come in the mail never shot a pistol grip shot gun before but this one is spossed to help manage recoil. bought the gun for $275 new from gander mountain they wanted $350 for it but it never hurts to ask what the bottom dollar is even on a new gun houge grip(i cant spell) $25 from midwayusa thats my setup nice gun for cheap.
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Old July 1, 2008, 09:35 PM   #20
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Gotta wade in on this one

You know that for a while I've been saying that if Dave McC "says it" that's good enough for me. After a career as a agency armor and relationships with Tommy N for Remington and carrying Scatterguns in the service I sometimes get cocky, Dave's always there to show us the right path!

A short story as a enforcer to the lesson by Dave. Many years ago I was asked by my agency head to evaluate the "then" new to us Ithaca stake-out model 37 in 20 gauge. This was a pistol gripped contraption that held 3 rounds in the mag. A case of ammo a new gun and a pay check to boot!!!!
I won't take the long way around the barn with this, at 10 ft this gun shot racket ball size (very small) patterns, and I could easily miss B-13 targets!

I do not see the advantage of pistol grips on scatterguns, Well, maybe I'm just a poor shot. (not)

Good Luck guys & Be Safe
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Old July 2, 2008, 06:51 AM   #21
Dave McC
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Thanks for the endorsement, Bob.

There's a line of demarcation here between the PGO fans and the non fans. Oft the determinant is simply experience.

I've known plenty of folks whose workplace is in harm's way. Cops, soldiers, and people whose jobs require weapons and expertise in their use. NONE have PGO shotguns as their go to. Other than for breaching, there's not much use for them among cogniscienti.....
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Old July 2, 2008, 09:44 AM   #22
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Agreed, cops and soldiers carry shotguns with stocks. Guys on TV's and wannabes carry PGOs. (I will admit to having previously wasted money on a PGO and other even more useless shiite which I'm too ashamed to mention.)

Quote:
ATI and Upgrade don't go in the same sentence......
No truer words have been spoken.
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Old July 4, 2008, 10:00 AM   #23
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Yes, stock AND PG is better!

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Old July 6, 2008, 03:42 AM   #24
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Personally I wouldn't use a PGO shotgun for anything except to take to a flea market and trade it for a better gun. The ONLY advantage is you might be able to get off a shot in a tight space with a PGO gun that you maybe couldn't do with a gun with a stock but that is a very rare situation. The downside is so big it is no fair trade off.

Aiming from the hip is not something you can practice at and be good at doing it. You are either able to do it or you aren't. There are people who will improve some but shooting from the hip is something you're born with really. It's like shooting a 25 foot jump shot with a basketball. Some people can do it and others can't. A friend of mine was in the navy and they made a huge deal of the fact he could shoot a pistol from the hip. They changed his whole occupation because of that single fact. It's just not something everyone can do.

Then there's the recoil problem. Sure you can probably do it ok with no stress and when you have time to prepare yourself. But shotguns KICK and if you're hands and wrists aren't exactly ready you can break your wrist. And if you're under the huge stress of having a BG in your house that you feel you have to shoot then you're going to be thinking about something besides how you're holding your shotgun.

I've had shotguns put a bruise on me that lasted for weeks and I don't bruise easy. It depends a lot on the person of course but think about your 100 pound wife or your kid trying to shoot a PGO shotgun with 00 buckshot loaded. Do you think they can do it safely? I don't. What if you're not around some day but a BG is? Wouldn't you want your wife or teenage kid to be able to fire that one gun you have to protect your family? Maybe you live alone. Maybe you're not a 250 lb. guy either. Maybe you are a small guy. Bones break and shotguns can do it.

The advantages of a gun with a stock are almost endless. You can aim it much better. If you try to aim a PGO shotgun you're putting your arms in an even worse position. What if you need to make a long shot?

Here's something to try. Pick up a rubber band and shoot it off your finger at something. See if you can shoot from the hip and hit anything at all. Now try it while aiming at eye level. Shooting from the hip just isn't a natural act for many people and holding a shotgun with a PGO can end up hurting you.

At least get a gun with a stock and a PG. That way you have the option of shooting either way. The few inches you save by going PGO is not going to save your life except in very rare situations. Not having to shoot from the hip can definitely save your life. The chances of that being a factor are much higher.

I'll tell you what I did. I bought an 870 Express and I take care of it. It should last for years. I followed Scattergun Bob's advice on updating a few parts and made it a better gun. And I practiced with it until I could have a friend throw up a pop can and I could shoot it twice before it hit the ground. If you can do that you don't need a PGO shotgun.
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Old July 6, 2008, 12:40 PM   #25
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get the mossberg 500 and call it a day, unless you can get an 870 for the same price.
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