The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Black Powder and Cowboy Action Shooting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 22, 2008, 08:50 AM   #1
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
Casting for the .58 repros????

I cast nearly everything I shoot in c/f pistol and rifle. Have been getting more into BP lately just for the change. Have always shot WW in the 36's, 44's, 45's using my own homemade grease. I recently picked up the 575213 mould for the 58 cal, a 505 grainer I think with a very deep hollow base/skirt. Will the use of WW allow this skirt to flare enough for sealing, or do I need to cast this one out of pure lead?

TIA
Okie out
okiefarmer is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 09:19 AM   #2
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 1,132
i shoot 58 cal muskets and you will have to use pure lead for the mimi balls, put a little dab of crisco in the hollow base to keep the filing soft, if your mini,s seems to small lyman makes a 575213 over size mold. i tried ww,s when i first go into the big 58,s in the mid 60,s, groups were around 4-5 inches at 50 yds. with pure lead mimi,s 575312 out of my target repo 63 remington navy arms zuove with target peep sights and 60-70 grs of 3-f it will shoot 2-3 inch groups at 100yds. good luck. eastbank.
eastbank is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 11:26 AM   #3
4V50 Gary
Staff
 
Join Date: November 2, 1998
Location: Colorado
Posts: 17,071
Expansion of the skirt is critical to the minie's performance. Go ahead and cast about 15 with wheel weights. Try three five shot groups with 55, 60 and 65 grains FF. Clean between groups and use a fresh target for each group. Then with 15 bullets casted with lead, repeat. The results will tell you what to do.

If the wheel weights don't work for you, save them to cast round balls for smooth bore muskets. Smooth bores are less finicky.
__________________
Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. Molon Labe!
4V50 Gary is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 11:38 AM   #4
Smokin_Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
Sure wouldn't use wheel weights in a C&B

Especially a skirted Minnie Ball of 500gr ... needs to be soft lead do to expansion of the skirt. I don't think you want hardcast lead bangin' up your rifling.
Hardcast usually shrink more when cooled and may be a bit loose...also hope you have a stove available and a cast iron pot...Lee electric dont melt or mold wheel weights very well... That's enough outta me, what do I now from lead...LoL!

SG
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A.
SASS# 19634, ...
Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php
Smokin_Gun is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 12:27 PM   #5
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
OK, here's the skinny on wheel weights. The stick on weights made for aluminum wheels are 98% pure lead. They work fine in my .58 three band Enfield. Clip on weights are a little too hard for minies but are great in crtridge guns. I use 70 grs. of Pyrodex with a Lyman traditional style minie and I also use a Lee Improved minie. I prefer the Lyman but the Lee is every bit as good. I can tear hell out of a five gallon bucket at 300 yds. with either one. I lube in the grooves instead of the base with a beeswax/crisco mix. I have no problem loading due to fouling whether it's the first shot or the 50th.
Hawg is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 01:33 PM   #6
eastbank
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 7, 2008
Location: pa.
Posts: 1,132
i own over a dozen rifles and pistols from .32 to .58 and a double barreled cap lock 12ga. shotgun. i have a 69 cal mini ball mold and would like to build a heavy target 69 cal. rifle one day. i have used most of the new powders but keep going back to black powder, it,s a little extra work but worth it to me. eastbank
eastbank is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 01:53 PM   #7
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
I only use Pyrodex because I can't get bp locally. Costs too much to get it online with the hazmat fees. Nobody else around here that I know of shoots bp.
Hawg is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 08:49 PM   #8
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
Hey, thanks all

I have a couple hunert pounds of pure lead, and about a ton of WW, been scroungin' for years. Glad I did in the earlier days, as now I keep hearing all the scare about the zinc in some. I should have enough to last me and my kids and perhaps grandkids. Pure lead a little harder to get for free and that's the kind I like best, haven't paid for any yet.

I will try a controlled test of WW and pure lead for myself, that would be the only way to find out on my own. Never thought about the aspect of damaging the rifling on a BP rifle with WW, was thinking it would only affect the skirt flare and/or accuracy with blowby if skirt did not flare. I have never driven WW past 1400fps because of the lack of hardness and leading at higher velocities, so I was hoping it would be soft enough for BP rifles.

I push WW in my Remi 58's and Ruger OA, but then again I am not driving tacks, mostly just making noise. I currently don't compete in any groups, and only recenly (finally) joined the local sportsmens club. Been doing it all at the pasture and pond shooting live targets, ie. turtles and carp.

As soon as harvest is over and summer planting done, I intend to take this 58 out and see how it handles.

Thanks again all.
Okie out
okiefarmer is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 10:06 PM   #9
Smokin_Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
Old Clip on Wheel Weights Have Zinc not good for round ball shootin'

That's what people don't hear, someone saya use stick on wheel weights and the hear pure lead and wheel weights.

You don't want to use Zinc/lead alloy hard cast CLIP ON wheel weights in your C&B Revs or rifles...

If you don't read the white part in these forums and read just the black parts you will gain some kind of knowledge from the expiriance.

SG
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A.
SASS# 19634, ...
Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php
Smokin_Gun is offline  
Old June 22, 2008, 11:58 PM   #10
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
Smokin' gun said: "If you don't read the white part in these forums and read just the black parts you will gain some kind of knowledge from the expiriance.

Guess I don't follow the white/black thing, but I have picked up alot here.

I'm old and slow
okiefarmer is offline  
Old June 23, 2008, 01:45 AM   #11
Smokin_Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
Sorry Oakiefarmer

Quote:
Guess I don't follow the white/black thing, but I have picked up alot here.
What I meant was if you read a book the pages are white with black text. If you ignore the white part and concentrate on the black part you may learn more.

SG
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A.
SASS# 19634, ...
Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php
Smokin_Gun is offline  
Old June 23, 2008, 08:21 PM   #12
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
Quote:
Hardcast usually shrink more when cooled and may be a bit loose
I missed that the first time around. Actually hard lead shrinks less than soft lead so balls made from hard lead will be oversize and harder to load.
I don't see the problem with a little zinc in cartridge bullets. After all Zinc is softer than copper.
If you don't want the zinc keep your melting pot under 787 degrees and skim the Zinc off with the clips.
Hawg is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 12:16 AM   #13
Smokin_Gun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2005
Location: Mojave Desert, CA
Posts: 1,195
Quote:
I don't see the problem with a little zinc in cartridge bullets
I don't see a problem with H/C boolits in say a Ruger Blackhawk or Police Service Six. I said H/C should not be used in C&B Revs
Muzzleloaders do to hardness.

SG
__________________
"I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington"
SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A.
SASS# 19634, ...
Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php
Smokin_Gun is offline  
Old June 24, 2008, 02:50 AM   #14
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
My bad SG. Somebody somewhere said something about zinc being hard on barrels, I was thinkin it was on this thread, not necessarily you tho. I was just to lazy to go back and look.
Hawg is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 04:11 PM   #15
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
OK, finally got to go out and ry the 58 today. Found a .575 Minie mold some time back and cast up a few from pure lead today before heading out. Greased up a few and went to range. Whodathunkit, no one told me they are different caps. Took along the '58 Remis in .36 and .44 that use #11 caps, and I just assumed all C&B took these same caps. Silly me.

Minie sure seemed to fit loose too. I pushed it into bore by thumb pressure, there was some resistance with rod on way down barell, but not much. Is this inherent in this big bore rifle (an easy ride down into barell), and the skirt flares to conform to the rifling, or do I need to be looking at an oversize mould, or perhaps just shooting patched RB. I might try some WW if it really does cool a bit larger. Dang that pure lead was hard to fill out in that big mold. It's a nose pour and could seldom get the nose to fill out before lead cooled. My LEE pot gets much hotter than the little 10# LYMAN, I might try a higher heat temp next time.

Guess I need to go find some musket caps. I learn something every day, but I sure had a hoot making all that smoke while there.
okiefarmer is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 04:25 PM   #16
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
Quote:
I pushed it into bore by thumb pressure, there was some resistance with rod on way down barell, but not much.
Sounds like you've got a perfect fit. The ramrod on my 3 band will push a minie all the way down till the last three inches or so by itself. With well lubed minies it will do it first shot or 50th. You've got to keep the temp up and the mold hot to cast those big minies. I have to reheat my Lyman every few minutes to keep it hot enough to cast without wrinkles. The Lee isn't so bad. You don't want hard lead at all. The stick on wheel weights are perfect tho, just leave the clip on ones for cartridge bullets.
Hawg is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 04:36 PM   #17
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
Thanks HAwg,

Just thought it ought to have a bit more resistance on loading. Virgin mistakes, heh. Although I was also clueless about the larger caps. That makes one look wise beyond hes years at the range. Did get some nice compliments on the big bore though. I need to go out tomorrow and shoot the projo out, I put some Crisco in the skirt area as per suggestions fartherup the thread. I suppose the powder will be OK overnight anyway. The boss has plans when for me when she gets home in a few.
okiefarmer is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 05:25 PM   #18
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
I always lube mine in the grooves. Some fill the base with lube and that may be ok. I've never tried it(may have to). It just seems to me it would work better in the grooves. If it works ok in the base that would be ideal for paper cartridges.
Hawg is offline  
Old July 11, 2008, 11:50 PM   #19
okiefarmer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 20, 2006
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 381
I also smeared the grooves full of grease too. I found a recipe I like, real stiff, have to heat it a bit to smear in grooves, but after cooling, stays put. Beeswax, crisco, and some LEE ALOX. I don't have a clue as to what the crisco might do in the base of the skirt, he just said to put some there. Maybe he has a bridge to sell me to I might buy it.
okiefarmer is offline  
Old July 12, 2008, 02:35 AM   #20
Hawg
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 8, 2007
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 11,864
I'd leave the alox out of it, it has petroleum derivatives in it. Alox is 50% beeswax anyway. I just use crisco and beeswax. Works for me
Hawg is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10570 seconds with 7 queries