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Old June 7, 2007, 03:14 PM   #1
ZeSpectre
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What lube is this???

Recently bought a used SIG 229 (9mm version). It had obviously had a good number of rounds through it and although it shows no indication of actual abuse, it wasn't exactly the best cleaned/maintained gun I've ever handled.

But I'll tell you this. I REALLY want to know what lube the previous owner used. The outside of the barrel, inside of the slide, and the rails, all felt unbelievably slick though there was no indication of wet-lube or grease still present.

I detail cleaned the gun with my usual mix of hot water and simple green and it definitely stripped all the grease and crud and such off the parts...and the barrel and so on still felt greasy slick like cooking oil on wax paper!

I've used a few different lubes including hoppes and Breakfree CLP and I've just never felt anything like this. Does anyone have any idea what might have been used because it makes the lubricating properties of Breakfree look absolutely pathetic!
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Old June 7, 2007, 03:22 PM   #2
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It could be one of several. Properly applied and treated Militec-1 will do that. Also, properly applied Tetra grease will also leave a slick dry lube behind. There are others, but these are the ones I have experience with. It could also have been one of the moly or teflon dry lubes.
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Old June 7, 2007, 03:28 PM   #3
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Well you are the second person to mention Militec-1 so I may have to get some and try it. I sure would like to make the slide on my CZ-52 feel like that.
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Old June 9, 2007, 12:09 AM   #4
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Miltec is prob the stuff used.

Be sure you properly perform the initial treatments to get the result. Thier website has better procedure instructions than the package does.
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Old June 9, 2007, 07:14 AM   #5
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The seller might be willing to contact the previous owner and find out.
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Old June 9, 2007, 08:46 AM   #6
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...and maybe let us know

Eezox leaves parts slick but not oily. Don't know how it stands up to hot water and Simple Green, though
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Old June 9, 2007, 10:59 PM   #7
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Good idea on asking the seller as it was a consignment gun. When I find out I'll let you know.
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Old June 11, 2007, 10:01 AM   #8
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contacted the shop I bought the gun from.
They contacted the previous owner and the winning answer is...

MILITEC-1

Holy COW, I have GOT to get some of this stuff!!!
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Old June 12, 2007, 06:43 AM   #9
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Old June 12, 2007, 09:48 AM   #10
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Ordered Militec-1 and the grease today. I can hardly wait to see what this stuff does for my CZ-52!
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Old June 20, 2007, 08:22 PM   #11
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Militec-1 Round 1

Took three guns to the range this evening. Ruger 22/45, Kel-Tec P-3AT, and a CZ-52.

All three guns had been degreased, treated with Militec-1, and heated in an old toaster oven to "cure" the parts. I also used the tiniest dab of Militec-1 grease on the rails of the P-3AT and the CZ-52. After the initial treatment all three guns were noticeably more slick in operation but especially the CZ-52.

Ruger 22/45 (150 rounds fired).
I'm absolutely dieing to put a better trigger in this pistol, regardless of that the gun functioned flawlessly and smoothly. A simple run through with a boresnake left it clean enough for my tastes afterwards. Breakfree has always required me swabbing out the chamber but it didn't seem nearly as gooked up after this shooting session.

P-3AT (50 rounds fired)
Similar deal. The gun functioned flawlessly and seemed far less dirty than it has always been after a shooting session where Breakfree was used. An interesting thing I noticed is that the barrel and slide seem even more slippery than they did before. Possibly the heat of firing caused the Militec-1 to "cure" even further? I don't know for certain what the cause is but the barrel (and the slide where it was heated by the hot barrel) now have that same "greasy wax paper" feel that the SIG has (which is what started this whole adventure.)

CZ-52 (100 rounds fired)
Um, WOW! After 60ish rounds the CZ was getting pretty hot so I took a break. If the extra heat caused more "curing" for the P-3AT then the effect went double for the CZ-52! The barrel, locking rollers, recoil spring (which wraps around the barrel), and all of the friction surfaces in the slide now feel like "greasy waxed paper" even though they were essentially dry of lubricant. After letting it cool a bit I shot the remaining rounds with no issues.

At this point it is the slickest operating CZ-52 I've ever felt, it even seems to have improved the trigger somewhat (though this may just be my enthusiasm speaking). The CZ was also an absolute breeze to clean up (I shoot corrosive surplus so a water cleanup is a must) and even after the parts still felt slick/greasy smooth.

At this point all of these guns have been fired, cleaned up, and left "dry" (I added no more lubricant). Working the mechanisms they all still feel freshly oiled. This Militec-1 stuff is amazing so far!

Will post more as the testing continues.

Ze
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Old July 6, 2007, 07:34 PM   #12
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Corossive Additives as Full Strength Lubricants -Delayed Corrosion in a Bottle

Many deleterious products are appearing in the firearms maintenance industry at an alarming rate, and many have been there for some time. These companies market on a “feel-good” basis, many of them, having questionable documentation, government letterhead “papers” on their web sites and in their advertising, along with no “significant” scientific tests and/or studies to back up their claims. Most make claims to being an extraordinary “lubricant” having false properties of protection and preservation, while assuring the public that they never use deceitful marketing practices and always tell the truth, mixing religion, in some cases, with accusations of government wrong-doing and bureaucratic quagmires. Some go as far as to capitalize on the deaths of fallen soldiers, while blaming the use of improper lubricants, cleaners, and preservatives on Defense Personnel in order to further their own sales, falsely. These companies ignore many claims of corrosion damage and in some cases, allay blame to the individual users themselves, along with usage of other products in conjunction with theirs.
Several more facts should be known about these companies along with the metalworking technologies that they improperly purvey, which results in the devastating effects that they have on weapons inspired by their products usage.

If the temperature of a weapon, coated with these products reaches 500 degrees F. or more, chemical corrosion will form on worn or bare metal surfaces as well as thinly Parkerized surfaces, especially if the weapon is neglected for any period of time. One or more of these products make claim to using a "hair dryer" or surface heating effect after application, which makes no difference in claims of "bonding" or creating a boundary film, nor does it help to protect the metals from environmental corrosion in any way.

Most of these companies are not manufacturers of their products and technologies, but purchase pure halogenated compounds from large chemical companies that specialize in metalworking additives to be used in their correct fashion as low percentage extreme pressure and anti-wear packages, not as stand-alone lubricants. They are masters of marketing and deception, and know little to nothing of the technical aspects, working chemistries and mechanisms of that, which they sell. Be vary wary of those making outlandish claims without providing defined explanations of their working chemistries and using buzzwords as well as false and/or misleading information combined with hyper-sensationalism to promote their products.

Be aware that these transgressor products can, and will, damage firearms in time. This damage is the result of the extreme pressure agents present in too high of a concentration, combined with little or no corrosion inhibition and/or protection, which will in time, cause corrosion fatigue and brittlizing of the contacting and stressed surfaces of the metal. Symptoms of this can be seen as rust-spot corrosion and pitting on passive metal surfaces. Examination under high magnification or SEM (Scanning Electron Micrograph) will reveal extreme pitting and brittlization of the metal surfaces, especially in the stressed surface areas. Corrosion-fatigue is the result of the combined action of an alternating stress and a corrosive environment ending in a brief and finite life of the weapon which eventually will fail, resulting in breakage, usually within 1-4 years depending on several factors:

1. Frequency of weapon usage in firing
2. Frequency of corrosive product usage
3. Severity of the corrosive environment (moisture/humidity)
4. Intensity of stress in stresses areas

Is the product you're using "One of these" type products? It's actually pretty easy to tell. Take a brightly scuffed piece of raw steel that has been thoroughly degreased and the lubricant-product in question. Coat the piece of steel with the product well. Then, take a spritzer bottle with tap water and apply a light coat of moisture, covering the product-coated steel and allow to set overnight and evaporate the moisture. You may also do this with another piece of steel that has no product on it as a "control group", to see how the moisture or water affects it by itself.
The results will be staggering. If any of you feel like trying it, let me know what your results are, and if you like, I'll share some even more pertinent info with you.

We ALL value our weapons and would hate to have these effects taking place on them, but the reality is that it DOES and IS happening every day in the industry.

Best regards,
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Old July 6, 2007, 08:52 PM   #13
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Well hell, send me a tiny little sample and I'd be more than happy to dose a few guns with it. I don't really care WHO has the best stuff, I'm just LOOKING for the best stuff and when I find it I'll let other people know. Breakfree CLP seems to have treated my weapons well in terms of corrosion protection, now militec-1 seems to be doing an outstanding job of lubrication.

I'm no scientist and have access to no fancy equipment, I'm just a guy passing along my real world experiences.
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Old July 6, 2007, 09:14 PM   #14
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Sample

Will do Ze....but if you have time, please try the test I suggested and let me know what you find out.

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Old July 6, 2007, 10:13 PM   #15
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Got any more samples? I'll pass some along to the guys I know that have belt feds.
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Old July 6, 2007, 10:32 PM   #16
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samples

Sure 50 and anyone else interested.

Just send us an email to gcfennell@steelshieldtech.com including your name and mailing address. I'll send you a free 1 oz bottle of "Weapon Shield" and YOU be the judge. This'll cost me but the return is worth every penny...and you all get to experiance the best of the best. That's my confidance level on "Weapon Shield" and the rest of our product line.

Once again, as before....I'll put my product where my mouth is for the next couple of weeks. All I ask in return is an honest posting and/or review of Steel Shield's "Weapon Shield".

Best regards
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Old July 6, 2007, 10:44 PM   #17
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gcfennell,

This thread got my attention because I've been noticing the PR and the testimonials of some of these products and was thinking of trying Militec-1.

After looking at both websites and reading your post several times it sounds as though Weapon Shield is similar to the other synthetic hydrocarbon treatments but has more anti-corrosion properties???

Applying heat does nothing?

How about copper fouling. Do you still use a copper solvent and then treat with Weapon Sheild?

I also noticed Weapon Sheild is considerably cheaper. OK, you got my interest. Tell more.
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Old July 6, 2007, 10:46 PM   #18
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That's a deal.
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Old July 6, 2007, 10:48 PM   #19
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Good to see you're back. I'll definitely be ordering some as soon as I get a chance (going to work now). Still have the old FP-10 you sent me years ago, but what the hell? Don't worry about the sample. You'll be getting an order from me pretty soon.
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Old July 6, 2007, 11:06 PM   #20
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Thanks

Thanks guys and it's good to be back. The MS has actually gotten better and I've been doing alot of riding my FX this year.

rgates - my reference to the "heat" was with a "hair dryer", as some believe that it actually does something to activate the chemistries. Heat is essential, but on a micro-scale of surface contacting areas that will spike to 500 deg F and more during metal to metal contacts during operation. These are true "boundary conditions" that are critical in the wear department...and thats what we're fighting...heat and wear. But after the initial heat that causes the interaction of the Weapon Shield and surface metals to form a boundary film, the weapon from that point on will operate significantly cooler. THAT's the key

For copper fouling, it's still advised to use a good copper remover, but after that, using the Weapon Shield will keep the fouling out and off the lands.

Thanks gentlemen and best regards. Sleep calls.
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Old July 6, 2007, 11:20 PM   #21
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Testing will happen after I finish moving.

George,
Replied to your PM as well. As I said, I'm mid-move so if you can wait a week to send the sample I will cheerfully test and report. I have every intent of buying another SIG 229 in .40 S&W so this may be the perfect side-by side test.

I have also made a note of your corrosion test and will try it and post the results (probably with photos) after I finish the move and get a little settled so there may be a bit of lag time involved but you, and others here, can rest assured that I will run the test and report back.
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Old July 7, 2007, 10:24 AM   #22
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ZeS

You got it Ze. Will do and I'll look forward to your results as well.

Best regards,
George
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Old July 28, 2007, 10:00 AM   #23
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First Round with "Weapon Shield"

Finally settled enough to clean and review!
CPO SIG 229 in .40 S&W

This pistol was taken to the range about two weeks ago where I fired just shy of 200 rounds of dirty, nasty, lead truncated cone, ammunition through it. The pistol functioned flawlessly and was extremely accurate. It was then worn for CCW during my entire move (dirt, sweat, and all). In the end it was about as dirty and nasty as I’ve ever let a sidearm get.

For this entire test the only chemical used on the firearm was “Weapon Shield”.

I started by field stripping the firearm down and then swabbing the inside of the barrel with Weapon Shield CLP. I then let the barrel sit for 20 minutes while I cleaned the rest of the gun. The frame cleanup went very quickly with Weapon Shield easily removing any and all gunk from the rails and other parts. One note is that Weapon Shield greatly reduced the stiff, gritty, feel of my magazine release button.

Cleaning the slide was, of course, more involved. Weapon Shield was doing such a nice job of removing fouling and gunk that I decided to go the extra mile and actually disassemble the firing pin and extractor. Again Weapon Shield (on several Q-Tips) did a first rate job of removing all gunk from the parts and the recessed areas, especially the firing pin channel.

By now about 20 minutes had passed so I took a bronze brush and scrubbed the barrel (which had some lead fouling from the LTC ammunition). I then ran a patch through which came out BLACK with lots of lead flakes. Visual inspection of the barrel showed a little more lead but I would estimate an 85% removal on the first go. As you may imagine I was pretty impressed at that. I swabbed the barrel with Weapon Shield again and set it aside while I reassembled the slide.

About 5 minutes later I brush-scrubbed the barrel again and ran more patches through it and visual inspection showed the barrel to be clean and shiny and ready to go. I don’t know if Weapon Shield is supposed to be a lead remover, but in this case it certainly seemed to make the job easier.

Now one of the issues I have with my SIG pistols is rust in the grip screw slots (on the side that faces my body). So far I’ve had good luck with Birchwood Casey “Barricade” spray to greatly reduce this issue, but not much else has helped at all. Since this pistol was going to be a testbed I hadn’t treated the screws and sure enough there was a hint of surface rust in the slots. Weapon Shield and a Q-Tip removed the rust. Time will tell if Weapon Shield also succeeds in preventing rust in this troublesome area.

This particular firearm is already an extremely smooth operating one so right now it’s a little difficult for me to tell by feel if Weapon Shield has had an effect on this aspect. The magazine release button was certainly smoothed out and is much easier to operate now. The barrel, guide rod, and rails all seem very slick and well lubricated. I also noted that the viscosity seemed very good. Thin enough to work into just about anyplace you put it, thick enough to avoid running all over the place. Testing and time will tell if the lube stays put or not. Odor is fine and passed the wife test as well as my own chemically sensitive nose.

Next stage will be a series of 100 round range trips with only a barrel swab-out. At 500 rounds I will report back on how Weapon Shield is holding up as well as detailing how the 500 round detail cleanup goes.

Ze
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Old July 28, 2007, 10:25 AM   #24
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gcfennell has good info.
Thanks for the posting.
I had read somewhere that Millitech falls into the catagory of corrosion in a bottle some time ago. I have no idea why, or how the military started using it. But, I decided that I would not use it based on comments about it by a technical guy on another Forum who know lubes as you do.

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Old July 30, 2007, 10:39 AM   #25
ZeSpectre
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Update on the Weapon Shield aspect of the test.

Pulled the SIG out of the safe today just to inspect and found that the tiniest bit of WS had seeped out. Four DAYS to get any seepage and even then I'm sure it's just because I tend to lube heavy. Working the action showed that Weapon Shield is still clinging tenaciously to the slide rails and interior mechanisms. I'm very pleased with the viscosity of this product and am looking forward to the upcoming range trip.
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