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Old June 16, 2008, 10:57 PM   #51
1911Gurl
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I have to side with PBP on this one. And it's not just gay guys who do it either. Being a girl who was brought up in a family that stresses self awareness and self defense I have caught guys doing the same thing #20fan has described. The first few times it freaked me out enough to take action. And seeing as I wasn't old enough to carry yet that meant I had to look for help with one hand on my pepper spray or knife depending on which one I had at the moment. As it turned out then and still does today, it's always a guy who's too nervous to talk to me in front of other people. I can only imagine how a gay guy must feel approaching a stranger in public. As a matter of fact one of my best friends since kindergarten is a gay man and he "cruises" just like that. He does it so much I worry for his safety sometimes. And no, I don't let my guard down when this happens to me, I don't talk to anyone unless it's in a well lit public place. If they're nervous they'll just have to get over it if they want to talk. And I always have a gun very close at hand now just in case the guy turns out to be not so nice. But I still would recommend keeping an eye on anyone who does this in case it's just a crook who's too stupid to stay hidden. Erin
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Old June 16, 2008, 11:28 PM   #52
TexasSeaRay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlayboyPenguin
When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat]
Something else you might want to strongly consider. . .

Anyone stalks me like that, I'm going to assume it was somebody I helped put in a federal prison--or the relative/friend/associate of someone I arrested and put in prison.

I'll do exactly one obvious avoidance routine with no action. The second avoidance I take, if the "stalker" is still on me, then all of a sudden I have a handful of the guy yanking him into a hallway/cubbyhole/alley or whatever is convenient.

Then he has about two seconds to come up with a reasonable explanation.

My wife dealt with a stalker when she was a reporter. When me and my partner finally caught the guy, he didn't want to stalk anyone ever again. The first few years I was out of law enforcement, I had no less than half-a-dozen death threats that my old bosses took serious enough to investigate and act upon. I'll carry that mild paranoia around for the rest of my days.

There are a lot of cops and LOTS of returning soldiers and combat vets that don't take kindly to being stalked. So if it's some kind of courtship ritual, fetish, turn-on, game, thrill-ride or whatever, be advised that there are better--and safer--ways to about getting a date or getting your thrills.

Jeff
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Old June 17, 2008, 12:52 AM   #53
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Do you have a "wide stance"?

All kidding aside, if he was gay he would have tried eye contact.
He was up to no good.
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Old June 17, 2008, 04:01 PM   #54
IGO1320
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what if?

"Even paranoids have real enemy's".....I think #20 fan did the right thing whether he misread the intentions or not.....he did nothing to escalate the issue (in case he was wrong) and made sure he was safe without endangering any one else. If the gentleman was indeed "cruising" he got the message crystal clear from #20 fan that he was not interested. I don't think anyone should be chastised for being cautious. I you are made uncomfortable then you need to not dismiss your feelings....IMHO.
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Old June 17, 2008, 04:13 PM   #55
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All kidding aside, if he was gay he would have tried eye contact.
The original post clearly states he did. He even said he stood there staring at him.

#20FAN did nothing wrong. He probably misread the situation but his actions were fine.

No one is saying do not be alert and aware of your surrounding...but you have to be careful and be aware you are not always right. If you start pulling a gun on someone just because they happen to be parked next to you in the parking garage and you think they are following you, who is the real menace?
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Old June 17, 2008, 04:38 PM   #56
Omaha-BeenGlockin
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With that new marriage law out there---he was just trying to scrounge up a few brides maids.
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Old June 17, 2008, 04:53 PM   #57
Recon7
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Maybe he's gay, maybe he's a carjacker, maybe both.

either way 20 handled the situation well. Way to CYA.
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Old June 17, 2008, 04:56 PM   #58
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With that new marriage law out there---he was just trying to scrounge up a few brides maids.
Are you saying that #20FAN was followed simply because he looked like he would fit into the dress?
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Old June 17, 2008, 05:34 PM   #59
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I think you did ok up till the walking out of the store. I don't think I would have done that. Not even for the very short time it took.
That is a good point that you made. I dispute the earlier comment that shopping malls are necessarily safe. Lots of crime occurs outside of them in the parking lots.

Where I live, our big shopping mall is a hotbed for all sorts of crime, from assaults, even occasionally robbery, and especially burglary of cars and theft of cars. So much so that that they now have a lot more cameras and an active security patrol in the parking lots now. But the local maps published in the news showing criminal activity still show the area to remain quite active.

So it is especially frustrating that the mall has a ban on firearms, which is on display right at the entrances. It is listed with other types of behaviors that are also banned. The mall rules also say that any "illegal" weapons are also banned. Which I would think means that things like a small knife, pepper spray, or a taser are all OK, since they are legal. But it does specifically ban firearms, even if they are legally carried.

Meth addicts know that people at shopping malls often are carrying money, or are leaving with expensive new merchandise that can be easily re-sold if stolen. More affluent people tend to visit them too, so they can also get ready access to more expensive cars to steal. Car theft here is amazingly high, with folks even having their cars parked in front of their homes being stolen.

Whether that man was a criminal, or some kind of mentally ill pervert that likes to stalk people in that manner, there was no way for #20FAN to have known for sure.

But either way, he did the right thing by being so very alert, and keeping his distance from the fellow. He might want to check the rules that the mall has, and/or even talk to the security staff there. The Mall owners might very well not approve of this sort of stalking behavior taking place on their property, and thus would be willing to take action against this man.

A person definitely has less rights when inside a shopping mall. And while a person could get away with this kind of stalking behavior in a public place, the mall staff could consider it being disruptive or constituting harassment of their patrons, and thus deal with it on that basis.

.
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Old June 18, 2008, 02:36 AM   #60
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Quote:
whether That Man Was A Criminal, Or Some Kind Of Mentally Ill Pervert That Likes To Stalk People In That Manner, There Was No Way For #20fan To Have Known For Sure....
But Either Way, He Did The Right Thing By Being So Very Alert, And Keeping His Distance From The Fellow.
A Person Definitely Has Less Rights When Inside A Shopping Mall. ...
Why Do People Give Up Rights They Have???
This Deserves Another Thread, And, It's Going To Get One...
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Old June 21, 2008, 05:50 PM   #61
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Dude, You are 6' 4" and 220 lbs --- why not while you are in the store walk up to the guy and ask him "Do I know YOU? Are you following me?

You're inside the store so chances are he won't go psycho on you.

To me someone 6' 4" and 220 is a big guy that I'm not looking to mug unless I want a stay in the intensive care unit.
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Old June 22, 2008, 01:43 AM   #62
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5'11", 210 right now, and, used to be REAL good at fighting. Always somebody bigger. Always someone with a gun, and, always somebody certifiable in this world. Always be careful...
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Old June 22, 2008, 04:34 PM   #63
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Liked your car?

I think you handled the whole situation well. The guy could have been up to no good, he could have been 'crusing', maybe he just liked your car. I have on occasion approached complete strangers because I liked the car they were driving (though I did not follow them around, I just walked up and introduced myself). There is no way for anyone including you to be sure. Since his actions made you uneasy, I believe you did exactly the right thing.
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Old June 22, 2008, 05:46 PM   #64
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Ya know, another possibility might be that he was a gay zombie; not out to eat the guy's brain, but rather to cruise in a gay zombie kinda manner and check out the guy's...car. If one is forced to shoot a gay zombie I'm not even sure what would be an appropriate weapon and load. Whatever it is I do know that one wouldn't want to limp wrist it and risk a stovepipe. The only thing I'm sure about is that if I'm ever stalked by a gay zombie I know to who's house I'm certainly NOT going to run.
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Old June 22, 2008, 07:10 PM   #65
Playboypenguin
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If one is forced to shoot a gay zombie I'm not even sure what would be an appropriate weapon and load.
The same you would use for any zombie. Gay zombies are just like every other zombie...just better dressed and groomed.
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Old June 22, 2008, 09:12 PM   #66
odessastraight
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OK, for what it's worth that "better dressed & groomed" comeback made me smile just a little bit. Even more so than when I thought up that "limp wristed stove pipe" gag. You've got a good sense of humor. Now I'm going to clam up on the subject because I may be on double secret probation, here.
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Old June 23, 2008, 07:50 PM   #67
Avenger11
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PBP,
Your veiled jokes and blatant discrimination of gays is innappropriate on this forum or any others!! Can't believe the Mod's have let it go this far!
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Old June 23, 2008, 08:22 PM   #68
cxg231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger11
PBP,
Your veiled jokes and blatant discrimination of gays is innappropriate on this forum or any others!! Can't believe the Mod's have let it go this far!
Hey Avenger - you *are* being sarcastic I hope?

For future reference, it is customary to use a or a or a to indicate sarcasm.

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Old June 24, 2008, 03:03 AM   #69
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Well, it sort of explains why PBP can buy so many guns...
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Old June 24, 2008, 03:47 AM   #70
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Seems this thread is no longer about what happened at the shopping center, nor about tactics and training.
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