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Old June 15, 2008, 06:38 AM   #26
johnwilliamson062
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you straight guys cannot recognize a simply "cruising"
What would be the reaction if a straight guy followed a girl around a store like that? No one doubted the other story of the young woman was a dangerous situation. I realize that society put a lot of pressure on homosexuals to remain underground in the past and in most places that pressure lingers, but if the behavior is entirely unacceptable for a straight man, why would it be acceptable for a gay man?
I just lived in Columbus Ohio for 4 years and had a lot of exposures to gay men both on Campus and in the Short North. For a while there was a cashier at a store I frequented that was quite flirtatious. Never really bothered me, just took it as a compliment. If someone was following me around as described I would react in a similar fashion as #20 fan.

I think the situation was handled very well. Probably was a "cruizing" the guy probably bolted b/c there were previous complaints and the police knew him.
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Old June 15, 2008, 11:39 AM   #27
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If it is a case of "cruising" which I doubt seriously since I saw the guy, his eyes, actions and the way he carried himself, but if it was then at your next pinks pillow talk you might want to discuss alternate methods
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Old June 15, 2008, 11:52 AM   #28
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The MO is all wrong for an attack. He was in a public place, kept making himself visible, and followed closely while in populated areas.
Correct, these perps tend to be stealthy little suckers. However there certainly do exhist BG's who are just new or not good at taking people by surprise for whatever sisister plan they might want to cook up.

You did nicely in maintaining a visual on him. Making verbal contact might also be a nice helper. Instead of mere eye contact or something of the sort, a little, "How you doin man" right at the exit could also affirm to him that you are indeed aware of him being there.

When eye contact is made to be aware of our surroundings, we see everyone and they see us. But a 1 or 2-second glimpse exchanged between 2 people could deter many, the ones who get that extra "spidey-sense" feeling going might require a tinge more of letting them know you acknowledge their presence.

Something as simple as a greeting, asking for the time, remarking the weather etc just helps a bit more.

Nicely done though!
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Old June 15, 2008, 01:32 PM   #29
Bill Siegle
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I think you did ok up till the walking out of the store. I don't think I would have done that. Not even for the very short time it took. I have had similar situations happen(I no longer shop for long in the tool section of Sears) and I chose to react in the store as there was more witnesses and better oppurtunity for help. What I did was maintain a reasonably safe distance and in a bold but not shouting voice asked "What do you want?". All three times the suspect was visibly shaken and at that same time I cooled off knowing it was simply some sad man looking for a date(Hey I guess I am cute). I sure wish someone would alert these idiots that their behavior is very close to mimicing an impending attack and MANY out there will not react very favorably to it.
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Old June 15, 2008, 01:50 PM   #30
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Damn PBP, what ever happened to telling someone you're interested...instead of silently following someone like a stalker?
Hehe...so naive. You guys are almost cute.
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What would be the reaction if a straight guy followed a girl around a store like that?
When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat.
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If it is a case of "cruising" which I doubt seriously since I saw the guy, his eyes, actions and the way he carried himself, but if it was then at your next pinks pillow talk you might want to discuss alternate methods
Sorry, we cannot do much about it. It is not a practice engaged in by most gay men. It is one practiced mostly by closeted gay men who have to resort to anonymous public encounters...and the rare few with weird "public" fetishes. Straight people also do it but, like I said above, when two men are involved it becomes much more overt than if a woman was in the equation. An unwilling victim could very easily start to feel threatened. I still say you were in no danger of attack...at least not the type of which you are thinking.

All in all, this is a very good example of how it is possible to completely misread a situation and how important it is to keep a level head at all times.
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Old June 15, 2008, 01:59 PM   #31
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Hehe...so naive.
Not naive, just playing it safe. I would still rather have someone TELL me they're interested, instead of saying nothing and following me around.

People can't read minds, at least nobody I know.
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Old June 16, 2008, 01:46 AM   #32
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It doesn't matter...

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...so naive...
Never second-guess your instincts.

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You guys are almost cute.
If this was a mating ritual of the WideStance tribe, I'd urge its members to adopt a different technique.

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I am almost laughing...
I'm sure Darwin would have something to say about an animal whose sexual 'strut' mimicks an enemy predator.

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...getting a good laugh out of this thread...
Well, as long as you're entertained.
:barf:
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Old June 16, 2008, 01:48 AM   #33
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I'm sure Darwin would have something to say about an animal whose sexual 'strut' mimicks an enemy predator.
Sexual pursuit has always been a predatory action. Not being able to separate a true threat from a benign one is a real dangerous weakness. One that could get you put away for a very long time.
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Old June 16, 2008, 12:45 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Playboypenguin
Hehe...so naive.
I think there may be another explanation. Could be the dude was mentally disabled? Or just plain weird? I have been followed on occasion and when I have made it clear that I don't appreciate it - it's just been a wierdo. Harmless? Maybe, maybe not. Gay guys following me? I don't think so.

But the bottom line here is that some people are just plain strange.
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:03 PM   #35
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why he would be following a heavy (not fat!) grayheaded old fart twice his age for some kind of sexual thrill is beyond me.
Bottom line, I was there, I saw him, his actions and got the vibe from him. I choose to believe his intent was to bop me in the head, steal my money steal my car and worse of all steal my 12er!
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:20 PM   #36
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Bottom line, I was there, I saw him, his actions and got the vibe from him.
You saw someone follow you. Everything beyond that is in your head...just like it is in any situation where a person has to draw conclusions from a limited amount of data. The fact that he was in a public place, followed you into a populated area, then made himself visible and noticeable completely goes against the "vibe" you were getting. If he wanted to bop someone in the head why would he follow someone from their car INTO a store and not wait to follow someone leaving the store to their car???
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:23 PM   #37
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You saw someone follow you. Everything beyond that is in your head.
Aren't you doing the same thing without being there? How do you know what the guy was thinking? Just curious...
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:24 PM   #38
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Aren't you doing the same thing without being there? How do you know what the guy was thinking? Just curious...
Read the rest of the post that quote was from. I used experience and factual data he supplied to come to a conclusion. The story he tells does not support a possible attack in any way.
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:32 PM   #39
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I've read all the posts, I just wanna know how you know the guy was even gay.

He could have just been a straight weirdo. You just assumed he was gay as far as I can tell. He may have been for all I know, but I never assumed to know his preference.
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:38 PM   #40
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I've read all the posts, I just wanna know how you know the guy was even gay.

He could have just been a straight weirdo. You just assumed he was gay as far as I can tell. He may have been for all I know, but I never assumed to know his preference.
Like I have already said...experience (not just mine but a few others as well) combined with the information provided does not support an "attack" theory. It more likely supports a "cruising" theory. If you would like to point out something in my hypothesis that is faulty feel free to do so.
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:48 PM   #41
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If you would like to point out something in my hypothesis that is faulty feel free to do so.
No real problem, I just fail to see the difference. He could have been up to no good no matter what his sexual preference, that matters not to me, I don't want ANYONE following me around for no reason.

Too much crime nowdays for that.
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Old June 16, 2008, 02:58 PM   #42
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No real problem, I just fail to see the difference. He could have been up to no good no matter what his sexual preference, that matters not to me, I don't want ANYONE following me around for no reason.
There is just no evidence that supports the idea that he was looking to harm anyone. There is evidence that he wanted to be seen and was making his presence known. The manner in which he did so leads to the conclusion that he was seeking an interaction with the person he was following. Given that and where it occurred, it is much more likely a cruising event.

If I had been called to this as an LEO, which I saw a few similar events, I would have told the guy that he most likely had no real reason to be worried and that he was not being attacked.
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Old June 16, 2008, 03:10 PM   #43
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WTH!?!?!?

Hmmmm..... Let's see..... someone acting suspicious... maybe it's just me....

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Went to the checkout and he passed behind me and headed for the exit
but stopped before going out the door.
STRIKE ONE

Quote:
As I passed by him and started out the automatic door he stepped in right behind me, almost lock step.
STRIKE TWO

Quote:
As I exited the door I made an immediate right and walked back in the store through the other auto door!
The guy just stood there and looked at me stupidly then walked off.
STRIKE THREE

At this point (STRIKE THREE)... IF it was all coincidence and they guy was totally unaware of the way it "appeared", I would think he would be oblivious to him turning and going back in the store. If I had not been paying attention to him in the first place WHY would I turn and look at him (stupidly).

And what difference does all this make???? Gay / Not Gay? Who gives a crap. Why in the hell was that even brought up?? If someone did that to one of my daughters, I would hope they would do the exact same thing #20fan did. And I bet nobody on here would have said a word. Why is anyone second guessing #20Fan???? NOBODY else was there. It's not like he spun around and kicked this guy's arse or anything. He was very smart in my opinion. He diffused the potential situation. I said Potential. Better safe than sorry.

As far as being in a safe public place..... apparently I am the only one that doesn't put anything past BG's now. On a regular basis I am simply amazed at what some people do.

Hats off to #20Fan from ME.
Just felt like he deserved some POSITIVE support. I won't read anymore here and I hope the moderator shut it down. All the GOOD has been said and the rests just seems negative to me.

He did the right thing.
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Old June 16, 2008, 03:13 PM   #44
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Just felt like he deserved some POSITIVE support. I won't read anymore here and I hope the moderator shut it down. All the GOOD has been said and the rests just seems negative to me.
The positive support he deserves is for the fact that he did not overreact to a situation that he most likely misinterpreted.
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Old June 16, 2008, 03:50 PM   #45
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When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat.
Listen to your instincts.

If it looks like a threat, don't just shrug and say, "Ohhh, how cute! That guy likes me! I guess I'll go wandering straight out the door into the dark parking lot, not looking behind me, not aware of anything, swish swish swish ..." (BTW, this advice goes for women as well as men, mkay?)

Even if it does make the Pink Pistols contingent laugh, there's nothing wrong with situational awareness, and everything right with avoiding a potential threat.

Of course, if you were looking for an anonymous public sexual encounter (instead of just trying to get your groceries), the 'right' answer might be a bit different. But if you don't want to have sex with strangers, it's probably a good idea to avoid giving a stranger the idea that you'd make easy prey.

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Old June 16, 2008, 03:57 PM   #46
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I think there may be another explanation. Could be the dude was mentally disabled? Or just plain weird?
I'm around the Gay Area, and, I haven't been stalked like that.

However, in my read, my first reaction was mentally challenged, maybe because I've been around special ed for awhile. Santa Cruz had a number of section 8 folks that appeared normal, but, as you got to know them, it became apparent they were a bit weird.

One guy, big, tall, dressed in a tux, would come into our restaurant, and, until about the 3rd time, appeared normal. After that, he would come over to the house I was staying in, and sing outside the window at 3-6am. He had a crush on the landlord, someone that had also appeared normal, at first, but, turned out to be section 8 as well.

Had to move, quickly. She was female, and, when I moved out, assaulted, and battered me, as I took my furniture out of the house. Since I'd been there for a month, it was now her's. She actually tried to claw my eyes out, with rather long nails...

There are some pretty crazy folks that are out in the normal population, and, supported by the government.
Of course there is no reason someone mentally challenged can't be happy as well...

Finally, there are a number of folks that are homeless, some neat, some not so neat, that will stalk you, try and get you isolated, and extort, or force you to give them money. This has happened to my girlfriend, in San Francisco. I guess she reacted in a way the guy didn't like, all 5' and 105 pounds, and the guy punched her in the face, for no reason. I'd REALLY have liked to have been there for that one...

Having worked in the SFDA's office, about 40% of the cases investigated are homeless crime, usually on each other for territory, sometimes against a normal person, for money. They never go to trial, and, the people stay on the street, because homeless people do not make credible witnesses, and, they won't testify, about 100% of the time, since they have a great fear of police, DA's, and the legal system.
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Old June 16, 2008, 04:11 PM   #47
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Listen to your instincts.
True, not doing so has got a lot of folks in situations they never saw coming.
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Old June 16, 2008, 04:22 PM   #48
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Shopping malls are private property, and many of them thus ban firearms. Be sure to check your own mall's rules, before going inside it armed again.

Both of the major shopping malls where I live have a rule against bringing firearms into the mall. I thus have to be extremely careful when carrying inside. For if detected, I would be ejected from the mall.

.
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Old June 16, 2008, 04:51 PM   #49
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well done, #20fan

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When two men are involved it is a completely different story. All that male attitude and testosterone can make the "courtship" quite aggressive and can easily be confused as a potential threat.
I guess if being stalked aggressively by an individual intent on propositioning a complete stranger to engage in acts of sodomy strikes one as "nothing sinister," well, carry on. . . as for me, I'm going to act precisely as #20fan did. If that doesn't work, the "potential threat" (excuse me, the only confusion here is on the part of the stupid twitch doing the shadowing) just became a real threat. Too bad. The pink pistol contingent can giggle themselves to incontinence for all I care.
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Old June 16, 2008, 06:43 PM   #50
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I totally beleive in common sense, being prepared and situational awareness. Unfortunately, too often the tactical forum regresses into tactical paranoia. Now we've introduced Gay stalking into the mix!!
What will we come up with next??? My next door neighbor might be a serial killer. The Girl Scouts selling cookies are really just casing the place.The Pizza delivery guy is a sexual predator. The mailman smiled at me and said hello. I think he's gay! Suspect anyone and everyone. Wal=mart parking lots are rife with felon's of all kinds and Mall's must be avoided at all costs, because their full of gangs. Don't drive your car, there could be a hijacker at the next red light.
Living in fear is your choice.I'll trust the odds that a vast majoity of us will never, ever experience a life theatening situation.
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