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Old June 19, 2008, 04:01 PM   #26
Glck3419
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You ALWAYS go for the center of the largest visible body part. A normal person standing, it would be center mass. If they are hiding behind a wall and all you can see is the leg, you mind should rationalize the leg has two parts, upper and lower, and see that the upper part of the leg is bigger and that should be your target.



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Old June 19, 2008, 05:14 PM   #27
TexasSeaRay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avenger11
When I go to the range, I practice accuracy, function, reliability and safety. I do not focus on how I would kill another human being!! I'll leave that to the internet Machismo's here that don't have a clue what they would do in a real life threatening situation!!
When you paint with such a broad, sloppy brush, do not be surprised when some of that paint splatters back on you.

My shooting these days consists primarily of testing new loads, new cast boolits, etc. I enjoy it.

I also make sure that my self-defense shooting skills stay sharp and focused.

Unfortunately, some of us have had real life threatening situations. The fact that we're still here to discuss such issues is a testament to preparedness and reality for our own individual situations.

Jeff
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Old June 19, 2008, 08:14 PM   #28
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
I also make sure that my self-defense shooting skills stay sharp and focused.
And so this is how I try to do mine...

I shoot a variety of locations, but mostly COM, COC, and Head shots. I do some static shooting, but prefer to have either the targets or me in motion. Based on what I have learned, somebody is going to be in motion in most gunfights/assaults, hence motion being used in practice.

Shooting on the move, moving laterally by the target...
http://www.vholdr.com/node/2862

Shooting on the move, retreating...
http://www.vholdr.com/video/com-retreat-drill

Single moving head-sized target...
http://www.vholdr.com/video/first-range-test

Double moving head-sized targets...
http://www.vholdr.com/video/shooting...hifter-targets

And no, my groups aren't perfect and my shots aren't placed as well as I would like, so I have to keep practicing...
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Old June 20, 2008, 02:21 AM   #29
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I shoot bullseye targets 95 percent of the time. However, I also do hostage taker scenarios but I still use two bullseyes. One overlapping the other about almost halfway. This is done at the max distance of 7 yards. If I can hit the bullseyes then I am pretty confident that I can place my shots where I want them.

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Old June 20, 2008, 02:39 AM   #30
LanceOregon
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If they are not armed with a firearm, then aim for their hip, and you will be able to stop your attacker from advancing on you.

For they will not be able to reach you without a functioning hip.

But if they do have a gun, then aim for the center of their heart/lung area.

.
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Old June 20, 2008, 06:39 AM   #31
Double Naught Spy
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Lance, interesting. What makes you think you are going to be able to make their hip not function?

Just what part of the "hip" are you going to shoot and where are you going to aim to make it happen? The largest part of the hip, the ilium, mostly supports soft tissue and can be penetrated without losing integrity and can even break without causing a loss of locomotor integrity.

If the person is a lethal threat to you, then why not put them down in the same manner as if they were armed with a gun?
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Old June 21, 2008, 12:04 PM   #32
dadofsix
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Injuries to the hip are breathtakingly painful. A bullet to the hip will shatter bone and immobilize. While not an exact analogy, experienced hunters faced with a charging bear will try to "dismantle" the mobility of the bear before trying to kill it.

When I am carrying a large caliber weapon, it makes sense to shoot to COM. On those occasions, however, when I am forced to carry a mouse-gun, COM shots while eventually lethal, may not have the stopping power as shots to the pelvic girdle. FWIW, I agree completely that if the BG is holding a gun, shots to COM and the CNS are the only ones that make sense.

Perhaps someone with a medical background could offer their insights.

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Old June 21, 2008, 12:28 PM   #33
AK103K
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If I'm forced to use my Seecamp, I'm not going to be shooting at someones "girdle".

I'll be doing my best to get them to say..."Ahhh".
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Old June 21, 2008, 12:50 PM   #34
Huskerz85
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Depends. I'm most accurate with my Model 10/K38.....so I'll usually divide my 6 shots in half (3 to the head, 3 to the chest).

With my PPK-S, I've been leaning towards the chest......not only is that a larger target area, but being that I fire that puppy DA, it's probably a safe bet that I've got a better chance of getting a hit and taking the hypothetical bad guy down. The more I practice and the better I get, I might start popping some in the head area.
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Old June 21, 2008, 03:38 PM   #35
Double Naught Spy
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Quote:
Injuries to the hip are breathtakingly painful. A bullet to the hip will shatter bone and immobilize.
Breathtakingly painful? I thought gut shots were supposed to be breathtakingly painful.

Unless you are using a centerfire rifle or shotgun slugs, don't count on shattering the pelvis. Even then, if you hit the blade of the largest bone, the ilium, you can get a round that simply passes through with no structural failure or even breaks off a chunk of the blade, but this likely won't result in structural collapse. Keep in mind that the iliac blade provides a lot of lower abdominal cavity support for soft tissue. If you want real structural insult, you need to impact at the acetabulum (where the femoral head articulates in the socket with the ilium, ischium, and pubis) or hit the pubic symphysis. Note that the pubic symphysis (very small target) and ischium (the bones you sit on[left and right]) are located very low down on the abdomen.

It is a myth that impacting the pelvis with a handgun shot will break the pelvis and drop the person that is often further glorified by saying the pelvis will collapse or will shatter. People shot in the pelvis may go down, err, drop, but then again I have seen footage of people shot in the thigh (no bone involvement) drop, gut, chest, shoulder, etc., all places that didn't have load bearing collapse.

Quote:
While not an exact analogy, experienced hunters faced with a charging bear will try to "dismantle" the mobility of the bear before trying to kill it.
More likely, they are doing their best to stop it any way possible and often bears get stopped without being killed and have to be finished off.

Of course, when it comes to a "charging bear," the best target presented is the shoulder as there are two to choose from and offer the dual possibilities of giving you the best chance for penetration of the body and the possibility of breaking the shoulder girdle. The head is a big target between the shoulders, but with a strong, sloped skull, necessary penetration into the brain may not occur and the head actually protects much of the vital organs behind it.

So it isn't so much that they are dismantling the the mobility of the bear as much as making the most optimal shot available on a charging bear.
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Old June 21, 2008, 04:30 PM   #36
Don Lu
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COM=center of whatever is presented for a target.
its not a good idea to set out aming for the hip, head,leg or even heart. When you are shaking from adrenaline, heart pounding and your target is in motion, chances are pretty high that you wount hit the targets I listed above. Go for the center of whatever is presented for a target instead of ..Ill shoot him in the ankle so he cant walk...
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Old June 21, 2008, 06:06 PM   #37
dadofsix
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I stand duly corrected.

Double Naught and Don Lu, thanks for your insights.

<><Peace
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Old June 21, 2008, 10:33 PM   #38
Spectre
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People under stress tend to shoot high.

I therefore, practice shooting a little low on my "COM" shots, aiming about where the diaphragm is. I more carefully shot failure to stops aiming for about where the bridge of the nose would be.

If I had the option on a slow shot on profile target, I would always aim for underneath the ear. I've seen deer that refused to believe they were dead persuaded this way.
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Old June 25, 2008, 04:22 PM   #39
Th0r
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Where I shoot.

The heavier stuff, rifles and such...

Only at the range.

Airguns and Airsoft I shoot in my rent's back garden.
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