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Old June 10, 2008, 07:58 PM   #26
.300H&H
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Anecdotal...

A few years back, I moved back to my old hometown, a small semirural environment... I was driving through town one night, and noticed a car without its headlights on...was following me. Suddenly the blue lights came on; it was a police car. I pulled over... The police officer comes up to my window and says he's been following me since I did not come to a complete stop at the stop sign about 2 blocks back. Hmmmmmm...I had in fact stopped at the stop sign...and there's not any traffic on the road...so I disputed the allegation. The officer then started screaming at me. Yep! He screamed! I didn't scream..but he was a nut. He seemed to be trying to provoke a 'fight.'

He called for other officers...and suddenly my car was swarmed by 3 other patrol cars...and one officer was slapping a night stick in his palm. An officer approached my window...and talked to me...and then had a peculiar heated conversation with the cop that stopped me. I was given a ticket for 'failing to come to a complete stop...'They wished me a pleasant evening...


I went to court. The officer was not present, and I was found not guilty...but when I tried to explain how I didn't like the way I had been treated...the JUDGE condescendingly explained that the officer's wife was having a baby and couldn't attend court today... Hmmmm....as if to say 'We wouldn't believe you if he were here.'


About a year later that cop and his partner were on trial for murdering a man they had pulled over and beat to death. One is serving a life term and the other is still on trial for it. Hmmmm....they had also been just fired from my local police department...and were working for a smaller police department when they committed the murder.... I noticed that the cop that I had encountered was involved in quite a few peculiar heroic situations ie.one in which a suspect dragged him down the road when he tried to make an arrest.... This cop was just a bit 'too zealous.' He stopped me three times
after the first encounter....always just to 'see where I was going...' I complained but was given the condescending cold shoulder of disbelief by the local pd....but apparaently bad karma caught up with him...and he's now living in a wonderful state prison.


Do I always trust the police? No. Do I sometimes trust the police? Yes.


Sometimes it's good to talk...and sometimes it's best to stay very quiet. Quiet usually has the house advantage...but not always.


Let this be a lesson: If you carry a gun in your car, make sure it's where it's supposed to be ie. locked up and out of sight...and LEGAL. And call for an Officer In Charge if you have a weird/bad encounter. Can you imagine what might have happened if the bad cop had spotted a firearm or anything he could have used to get me into serious trouble?
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Old June 10, 2008, 08:09 PM   #27
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I didn't watch the video either, because I already knew how cops behave. Can't think of many things to talk with cops about...ever.
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Old June 10, 2008, 08:17 PM   #28
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If you did not actually watch the video, you really don't have anything to contribute to this particular conversation and should go start your own thread instead of cluttering this one with inanities.

Here's a hint: It has nothing WHATSOEVER to do with how cops behave. Or about how awful some small-town cop was on a dark night in Hicksburg. Or about how some schmuck shouldn't have mouthed off to the po-po. Or about police brutality. Or about hating the establishment, or about how we should all hold hands and sing kumbayah, or about how much some people just hate the police but will be the first to call when they get in trouble, or about how 911 can't save you, or about ...

Sheesh, people. Go watch the darn video. There's a slight risk you might learn something and I guess that's a downside for some, but if you can face that horrible risk, you might actually enjoy the presentation.

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Old June 10, 2008, 08:52 PM   #29
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PAX

WOW!!!!

That is telling it like it is....man I do not ever want to be on your bad side...
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Old June 10, 2008, 09:06 PM   #30
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I look at it this way... the ones that make snide comments because they are just 'too smart' to watch the video are the same ones that are 'too smart' to lawyer up and shut up when time comes that they need to. Another case of I don't have any problem with Darwinism and there isn't much opportunity to breed (successfully) in prison.
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Old June 10, 2008, 09:49 PM   #31
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Boy someone is real naive here.
Not really. Blanket statements always have problems. "Don't talk to the police" is a blanket statement.

You'd better believe that if I'm involved in a shooting that I'm going to say something when the police roll up. From their perspective there is a guy with a gun (me) and a dead guy (the perp). For all they know I could be a mugger, or whatever. Giving a wee bit of perspective won't hurt anything

And this idea that speaking to the police is giving up your rights is poppycock. I can terminate the conversation any time I wish and I can tell them as little or as much as I want. Understanding your rights is far more important than knee jerk reactions or advise.

We hate it when folks characterize all gun owners as redneck wackos, so lets stop painting all police as gestapo interrogators.
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Old June 10, 2008, 09:50 PM   #32
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Sheesh, people. Go watch the darn video. There's a slight risk you might learn something
True, but the counterpoint is that the opinion of a single law professor and police officer does not constitute a majority, a consensus or even an established fact. Grains of salt are best when liberally spread on both sides.
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Old June 10, 2008, 10:32 PM   #33
cool hand luke 22:36
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I can terminate the conversation any time I wish and I can tell them as little or as much as I want
True. But that doesn't immunize you against a detective misremembering or misinterpreting what you tell them. Absent a recording, whose testimony do you think would carry more weight at trial?

This issue was discussed at length in the video. Did you watch it?
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Old June 10, 2008, 10:46 PM   #34
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And this idea that speaking to the police is giving up your rights is poppycock. I can terminate the conversation any time I wish and I can tell them as little or as much as I want.
I can see sir that you are much too smart take the advice of a "single law professor" or a police officer, or even the advice of Supreme Court Justices. After all what would they know about such things? You go right ahead and talk to the nice police officer - after all you're in control. You shoot people every day and wouldn't let a little thing like a dead body in your kitchen fluster you. And besides you're much smarter than that twenty year police veteran. We'll make an exception for you... you go right ahead and talk to the nice policeman.
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Old June 10, 2008, 11:18 PM   #35
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True. But that doesn't immunize you against a detective misremembering or misinterpreting what you tell them. Absent a recording, whose testimony do you think would carry more weight at trial?

This issue was discussed at length in the video. Did you watch it?
Yes I watched it. Of course, the potential for the cop "misremembering" is there whether you speak or not. If they are going to "misremember" what you said, there isn't anything stopping them from "misremembering" that you didn't say anything at all.

As far as who's testimony carrys more weight at trial, it depends. However if everything I say lines up with all the physical evidence, then I'm not to worried about what johnny law has to say.


Quote:
I can see sir that you are much too smart take the advice of a "single law professor" or a police officer, or even the advice of Supreme Court Justices. After all what would they know about such things? You go right ahead and talk to the nice police officer - after all you're in control. You shoot people every day and wouldn't let a little thing like a dead body in your kitchen fluster you. And besides you're much smarter than that twenty year police veteran. We'll make an exception for you... you go right ahead and talk to the nice policeman.
Well, I listened to the advise of the professor and the police officer, but I'm inclined to give more weight to my own experience with police officers. Granted it wasn't 20 years worth, but then again I have a perspective different from that of both the law professor (remember he was a defense attorney) as well as the cop. You see, the police aren't the ones that can ruin your day, the prosecutor is.

From this experience I didn't see anything that made me believe that cops as a whole were 'out to get people'. Quite the opposite, most of them were doing the job because they had a desire to help folks. As with everything there sure were bad apples, but again its the exception and not the rule.

On top of my own experience, my father was a cop as well as a federal agent. My uncle was a cop and I have several college buddies that are cops. This issue isn't a new one and I've talked to them about it before, and they all think its hogwash. Between them theres close to 75 years of experience so that should placate your fears about validity and certianly outranks someone with only 2 decades under his belt.


If for nothing else, if your theory holds true, jails should be full of people who where 'tricked' into their convictions. Thats simply not the case.

It should be noted that I'm not saying that you should run your mouth about everything or everytime. Nor do I have any objection over someone who exercises their rights immediately. What I do object to is this idea the you should never talk to the police. Its a conclusion based on a faulty premise and isn't practical in every situation.
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Old June 10, 2008, 11:50 PM   #36
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STAGE 2,

Sometimes it's hard to hear what people are actually saying on a subject we've been hurt with before. When someone's taken a piece of coarse sandpaper to your sunburn, you're not likely to be thinking about much of anything else.

But all the same, slow down a bit, please.

Why did you use scare quotes around "misremembered"? Are you implying that police officers don't have ordinary human memories, and that if any officer's recollection is different from someone else's, the officer simply has to be lying??! If so, you're the only person (who actually watched the video) saying so. And I cannot believe you even went there, given the lengthy and very persuasive illustration on the video about how human memory works and how easy it is to get it wrong even when we're trying not to.

The cop's job is to investigate the crime, write down or record what you say, and hand the whole mess over to a prosecutor who remains in office only as long as he gets a good conviction rate. The motives for why these guys do what they do doesn't really matter. No, I'll go one step further. Most cops I've ever met were motivated very strongly by improving society, by the adrenalin rush of doing the job and making a difference in the world around them. Most prosecutors really believe they're performing a necessary task (and they are!) and that the people they put in jail are in fact guilty -- if not of the specific crime they're first charged with, they're probably guilty of a lesser, included offense and that's why the plea bargain system works. But the motives for doing the job really don't matter. All that really matters is, what the job is and has to be, by nature.

The cop collects evidence. It's not his job to determine guilt or innocence. He investigates a crime, looks for a likely perpetrator, and hands the evidence of that person's guilt along to the prosecutor's office.

The prosecutor looks at the evidence and decides whether or not to charge. Then he prosecutes the case using the evidence the cop handed in.

At the end of the day, the evidence the cop hands in can and will be used by the prosecutor. It will not be particularly helpful to the defense attorney because the cop's job is NOT to look for evidence of innocence, but to find the perpetrator of a crime.

You can hate that or love it, but there's no sense taking it personally. It's the way the system works ...

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Old June 10, 2008, 11:56 PM   #37
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Excellent videos, thank you for linking them.

That was quite possibly the best summarized legal advice I've yet seen on the topic.

-SS
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Old June 11, 2008, 12:45 AM   #38
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Why did you use scare quotes around "misremembered"? Are you implying that police officers don't have ordinary human memories, and that if any officer's recollection is different from someone else's, the officer simply has to be lying??! If so, you're the only person (who actually watched the video) saying so. And I cannot believe you even went there, given the lengthy and very persuasive illustration on the video about how human memory works and how easy it is to get it wrong even when we're trying not to.
Well, as there are several people here who have alleged that its SOP for police to lie, thats what the quotes were for. I'm fully aware that police are human beings, subject to the same limitations as the rest of us. Regardless, whether the cop in question misremembers because he truly is mistaken or is lying, the potential for this exists whether you say something or not.


Quote:
At the end of the day, the evidence the cop hands in can and will be used by the prosecutor. It will not be particularly helpful to the defense attorney because the cop's job is NOT to look for evidence of innocence, but to find the perpetrator of a crime.

You can hate that or love it, but there's no sense taking it personally. It's the way the system works ...
I'm very much aware of how the justice system works having been a part of it. And its from this experience that I can say that 98.6% of cops aren't out there to looking to pin something on someone.

Using a defensive shooting as an example, if someone is dead or shot, its pretty clear that a crime has been committed. There isn't anything the police need to manufacture for this. Their problem is figuring out whether the guy with the gun was the attacker or the guy on the ground. If its a clear cut shooting (my wife was a witness, the knife is still in the guys hand/on the ground, he's got a rap sheet) I can save myself a whole mess of grief by giving a short summary of what happened.

In other words, there are situations in which its probably helpful to talk to police. Saying no in all cases just isn't productive.
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Old June 11, 2008, 01:18 AM   #39
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I can save myself a whole mess of grief by giving a short summary of what happened.
In most places & cases this is simply a myth. If you've killed someone the odds are you're going in to the station for a long night of questions. Why not let your lawyer meet you there and do the talking? For those in a state without a castle doctrine you are going to get sued. It's not even a question of maybe - you will be sued, and every bit of your statements to the police will be used against you. But please go ahead and speak to the police and forgive the rest of us for following sound legal advice.

God I love Darwin!
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Old June 11, 2008, 02:00 AM   #40
.300H&H
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Every situation is a little different. One Video? LOL. Sometimes it's good to talk and sometimes it's not so good to talk. It depends on what your talking about - and the exact situation. One size does not fit all. Afterall, it's not just about 'memory' - but agendas, preconceived notions,mistaken identities, and the fact that if you don't clarify a situation...somebody else<not your magical lawyer> might talk and do all the 'clarifying' for you at the scene. The blanket statement of 'never talking to a police officer without a magic lawyer' might serve some cases...but it just might worsen some other situations.


Also - is it possible to be a mute zombie? A police officer can misremember your body language, your demeanor...and how you chose 'not to say anything at the time.' Your not saying anything can be misremembered as your being 'aloof' or 'uncoperative' or being 'suspicious.' If you say NOTHING except I WANT MY LAWYER...that might not look so good down the road...ie. How did the defendant react? Oh he refused<if I remember right> to talk; he just kept saying 'I really need a lawyer this time...and seemed to be really angry. He muttered something.'


If you choose not to say anything, you leave everything in the hands of other people at the scene to say things for you...and sometimes that's not a good thing to do. Now, if you're guilty as sin, I'd say by all means you should not say anything, and you should just get with your lawyer asap...unless you already have a premeditated airtight alibi.:barf:


At some point, you will have to explain things. At the scene your name and a brief description of who you are and what happened might just keep you out of more complicated trouble. A Bad Cop is not going to be any nicer if you don't say anything. In fact, a Bad Cop might just make up a few things for you to have said. Might even make his/her paperwork a little easier...and then you'll have to explain how you didn't say anything at all at the scene when the Bad Cop says you said a few things.


Johnny, did you hit that baseball that went through the window?
Johnny's answer of 'I'm not talking until I've talked to a lawyer...' might not be such a good answer. You certainly have the right not to talk...
Lawyers give a lot of good advice and 20/20 legal hindsight is wonderful. Lots of brilliant lawyers in jail too!


Last 'mugging' I saw the little gang members were saying the victim was the perpetrator and had harrassed the 'alleged mugger.' If not for the true victim explaining what had happened and being much more credible - what then?
The victim's statement jived with what was suspected - and the little gang members were carted off to jail for curfew violation...while we hunted for the real mugger, th actual perpetrator.
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Old June 11, 2008, 02:28 AM   #41
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n most places & cases this is simply a myth. If you've killed someone the odds are you're going in to the station for a long night of questions.
It depends on the circumstances. Again, if its clearly a good shoot it behooves you to explain the situation. You really think that its a good idea at 2am when you've just shot an armed home invader in your living room to not say a word when the police show up?


Quote:
Why not let your lawyer meet you there and do the talking? For those in a state without a castle doctrine you are going to get sued. It's not even a question of maybe - you will be sued, and every bit of your statements to the police will be used against you. But please go ahead and speak to the police and forgive the rest of us for following sound legal advice.
Again, you keep dealing in absolutes. There have been plenty of instances where people have defended themselves against attackers without facing civil suits. As far as sound legal advise, the law professor isn't the only attorney in the world, on this board, on in this thread.
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Old June 11, 2008, 02:33 AM   #42
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My Cousin Vinny

A little more entertaining than the videos, a bit longer, and without as clear cut delivery of the message, but the messages are in there, if you can see them. Overall, one of my favorite movies in a lot of ways.

As pointed out in the videos, things we may say in everyday conversation can take on a very different, and possibly sinister appearance when read in court, and especially when read out of context. Very clear in the movie, "I shot the clerk?" (an incredulous question) and "I shot the clerk." (a definite statement when read into the record by the sheriff).

Someone once posted an idea for a card, to carried in your wallet, that you could give to the police when they arrive on the scene of a defensive shooting. It said something like "I have been exposed to gunfire, my hearing is damaged. I cannot answer questions at this time, but will gladly do so later, with my lawyer present". Or something like that. Might this be a good idea?

Obviously it is not practical to never speak to the police about anything, at any time. But it is clearly pointed out in those lectures how innocent statements can work to your disadvantage. Prudence is indicated. The police are not there for our best interests, they are there to do their job, no matter what we might think. And even if the police are ok with something, that doesn't mean the DA is ok with it.

I once worked with a man (about 20 yrs ago) who wound up paying a lawyer $2500 to defend him, because his car was stolen while he was at work. He reported it just like he should, but the local cops couldn't find any evidence, so they went after him, claiming he ditched the car for the insurance money. He was exonerated only after the car was found in a location where he could not have left it and gotten back in time to make the report, and only after coming up with witnesses verifying his whereabouts during the time in question. Had his car been stolen in the middle of the night, while he was sleeping at home alone, he would have been S.O.L.!!!

I mention this anecdote only to illustrate once again that factual innocence does not guarantee you will not be in trouble, if someone in the system decides otherwise.
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Old June 11, 2008, 06:00 AM   #43
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if a cop ever has lied in court against you it WILL give a perspective on LEO's in general. if you are ever investigated for a disappearance/murder as I was it WILL give you a perspective - moreso when the real perp is a cop's brother, and weasels out of it, as he did. run 'Edna Glaze missing' by Google for an eyeopener.

BTW I enjoyed the videos including the one that the ACLU had there also.
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Old June 11, 2008, 12:32 PM   #44
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Well, I watched both videos. For what was covered, I think it was very informative and probably very good advice. But.....

There was ground not covered. Important ground too. Specifically, and you will see this in the video, you have the right not to incriminate yourself. That's what the topic was. That and choosing not to speak to the police in support of that right. Well, you do NOT have the right to refuse to speak to the police under all circumstances or at all times.

You certainly have the right if YOU are the target of an investigation, or are being charged or even arrested in connection with a crime. But you do not have a 5th amendment right not to incriminate others though for example. What if the police are asking you questions in the furtherance of conducting a legitimate investigation, where they have no suspect and are just trying to develop leads? If you refuse to cooperate with an investigation and not tell what you know, you then maybe committing the crime of obstruction of justice, impeding an investigation, etc. If you witnessed someone else commit a crime and you are not yourself a part of it, the law compels you to divulge your testimony. Or at least that's how I understand the law.

This was not covered in the videos, and I think is an important missing piece.
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Old June 11, 2008, 01:39 PM   #45
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"If you did not actually watch the video, you really don't have anything to contribute to this particular conversation and should go start your own thread instead of cluttering this one with inanities."

Dang, I thought this was The High Road. Whoops, my mistake. Maybe I'll just take my attitude over there and leave TFL to you and yours.

Meanwhile, the video won't play for me here at the office, it just sticks on 'buffering.'

I guess I won't comment on my experiences with talk/no-talk since I'm not qualified.

John
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Old June 11, 2008, 01:52 PM   #46
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Don't believe I've ever seen so many paranoid people in one place.
Never been on the wrong side of the questions, have you.

My story...

I had relocated to NW Arkansas in the mid 90s for a job with a small kit plane manufacturer as their engineer. I am out from NY, most of the company came out from CA the year before, this is a very rural area and we all stick out like sore thumbs.

Their is an Air Show that the company is going to attend and I am going to mind the shop. My neighbor, who also moved out with his wife and kids from CA, is attending but has a problem. His wife works night shift at a Tyson chicken plant nearby and doesn't get home till midnight. The boy (14) and girl (11) get home from school around 3 though... No problem. If they can be trusted (the boy is 14) to be home a couple hours alone I will get back by 5:05 (I worked real close). When I get home I get them fed and help with any needed homework. They go to bed and I crash in the recliner with the TV until mom got home around midnight and then go home. This went fine for day Mon and Tues (aside from the Tornado scare... another story). Tues night Lori, the mom, said I could just go home next door when they are asleep. Wed and Thur pas eventually with me going home around 10 or so.

On Friday a deputy sheriff came out to the shop to see me.

He requested I follow him back to their station, using my car, to answer some questions about a problem in the area... I agree and let the shop know I am stepping out and where I am going.

I am taken to an office pretty far back in the station and informed that there have been harassing phone calls made to women in the area over the last couple days... "What do you think of that? What do you think should be done to the person who did that?" and other such questions. I, being a law and order type of guy said my opinions on the matter and that I had not problem helping them find the perpetrator (oh how naive I was...). He then takes out a little tape recorder and says that one of the women recorded the call. It sounded like a kid, not local, saying stupid stuff about how she was pretty and how he would like to kiss her. It was stupid, and probably unsettling, but nothing like how bad I thought it would be. I am then told that several of the women complaining had been called repeatedly, over and over. The recording I was listening to was from a call made to... THE SHERIFF'S WIFE .

The sheriff at the time was known to administer Slap Glove Justice and was widely rumored to have been responsible for a large portion of the pot harvest in the hills around there, ruthlessly going after any who would illegally grow such crops without his protection. He really did have "Love" and "Hate" tattooed on his knuckles.

Now the Deputy says "I know that is you on that tape." !!! The calls were traced to the house I was sitting at.!!!! He then leads me through a door in the side of the office to a room with only a table, two chairs and a clock. It is all painted cinder block construction with a heavy solid door. It is on the other side from an empty office which is at the end of an empty hallway. I am getting very nervous. I am left to stew for about 10 minutes.

When he returns he starts putting on the pressure. If I would simply sign this statement confessing this could all be handled quickly. His boss wants this done today and he is going to get it done. They know it is me so it would be easier on everyone if I just signed. They could have a voice analysis done but why waste the time when they already know the answer... I ask about the kid I was watching and am told he is off on a school trip and they have not spoken to him but they spoke to his mom who said I was at the house during the times in question. I continue to state that I am not certain who that is on the tape but it is a kid or two and one is certainly not local. I, being from NY, have an accent not similar to the region and over a fuzzy recording perhaps they think my voice from my 5'4" frame with a NY accent sounds like this kid but it isn't. I am not signing anything and if I am being placed under arrest, which he states I am not at the moment, I am going to need a lawyer. All the while I was really expecting my head to get bounced off the table but I know one thing, I am not signing a damn thing. The fear of actual physical abuse, and lack of witnesses or recording made me hesitant to get to demanding on the lawyer issue. The whole time I try to be as polite and non-confrontational as possible. Now open physical threats are made but the outrage of the sheriff is mentioned over and over and how it will go much harder for me if I don't cooperate. I am then left there again after a good 20 - 30 minutes back and forth suggesting I sign a confession.

When the deputy returned he asked me what I wanted to do. I replied "I have no problem helping you but I am not signing or admitting to anything I did not do and I did not do this." He tells me to follow him out of the interrogation room.

We sit back down in the office this started in. He looks at me ans says, "I know that is not you on the tape." I breathe a huge sigh of relief and he continues with "Do you know why I had to do that?" My response was "To see if I would confess." To that he responded "No, to eliminate you as a suspect." (If I was smart enough not to cop to the whole thing before did he think I was dumb enough to fall for that one? I don't respond to that). I am told I can go home and thank you for my cooperation.

It is after 5 now so I go home and see Lori (the mom) walking into her front door next door. I wave to get her attention and receive a cold "go to hell look" from her in return as she goes in her door. Several hours later her son comes over to offer his apologies. Apparently he and a local friend, who was 15 or 16, had started making these prank calls at random out of the phone book. The friend would be there until just before I got home from work and then on the two nights I went home after he was "asleep" he would get up and start making the calls on his own. He was going to have a bushel of community service ahead of him, although they seemed to be trying to cut the local kid more slack and hammering the California kid... Lori came over afterwards to apologize for her desire to have me cut to ribbons, which I said was entirely justified since she had reason to believe some demented pedophile might have been watching her kids. She was though going to have to get a baby sitter for the following week since I thought it best that I NOT be over there alone with the kids. I accepted the stupid kid's apology, he basically was a good kid who was trying to fit in in a new town with what turned out to be a bad apple.

Lessons to be learned:

1. Be polite and respectful. Nothing escalates the situation faster than giving lip to the officer, even if he has earned it.

2. Do not admit to anything.

3. Don't panic. I admit I would have bet serious money I was going to receive a beating of some sort. Tone of voice, verbal implications of the well known nut job sheriff's displeasure and body language at several points had me prepared to suffer some abuse. I knew though that even if it hurt signing any confession would have long lasting implications from which I might never recover. How much of a beating could they really give me anyway since the whole shop saw me walk out healthy and knew where I was going.

4. Do not let your fear keep you from mentioning the need for a lawyer. I admit I was slow to do so. Again, I really feared a beating and hoped I could reason my way out of such without signing a confession. In the end I did mention that if I was being arrested I would want one and the interrogation did end not soon after. In hindsight I should have probably brought up the lawyer sooner but I really didn't think they would care.

When detained by an LEO they have enormous power over you. There is good reason to be wary of exposing yourself and remembering their may have nothing to do with your welfare and everything to do with satisfying their boss, making an arrest, getting a confession or a host of other items which are detrimental to you.
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Old June 11, 2008, 02:16 PM   #47
jrm
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I have looked at both of the "Don't Talk" videos. I have also seen the ACLU videos (don't get me started on the racist messages in those) which have much the same message.

Interesting information and seemingly good advice. Although I will admit, as other poster have pointed out - that there are probably exceptions to the rule.

What gets me about the videos in the original posts as well as the ACLU videos is that they are more slanted to "how not to get caught" or "how to get away with something illegal."

Sure, we have a 5th amendment right to not incriminate ourselves. That's fine. You could also argue we have a moral and ethical obligation to NOT do the crime in the first place and to be punished for it if we do. It was mentioned in the video that the 5th has a bad rap because it is usually associated with criminals avoiding questions. Maybe that's because it is usually used by criminals, not innocent people.

I know that these videos bill themselves as made to protect innocent people from inadvertently saying something which can be used against them. That's fine and can be useful information to that end. These videos, however, are really a message to criminals on how to use rights and laws to avoid punishment.
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Old June 11, 2008, 02:46 PM   #48
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Quote:
I know that these videos bill themselves as made to protect innocent people from inadvertently saying something which can be used against them. That's fine and can be useful information to that end. These videos, however, are really a message to criminals on how to use rights and laws to avoid punishment.
and is the Book of Combat Handgunnery intended for the use of criminals to teach them how to conceal and use a firearm?

Most cops are good and honest but there are enough who are not that the wide dissemination of such information on your rights makes very good sense.
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Old June 11, 2008, 02:47 PM   #49
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WOW, amazing stuff you would never think about if you are not in that line of business...and THAT'S why you hire a professional and GOOD lawyer!
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Old June 11, 2008, 03:34 PM   #50
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very very interesting. thanks for posting it. very good video's. Gives me more to think about.
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