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View Poll Results: Which is more reliable: 1911 or Sig?
1911 36 25.90%
Sig 103 74.10%
Voters: 139. You may not vote on this poll

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Old June 9, 2008, 03:03 AM   #1
Firepower!
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More reliable: 1911 or Sig Saur?

Hi
I would like hear your opinions and thoughts on 1911 and Sig Saur in terms of reliabilty and as a good over all SD pistol.

I am intentionally not including the 'other' option becuase I need your opinion on these two, even if you like some other pistol better. Yes, I am not including Glock even when I like it better. And then G v. 1911 always ends up with a war.

My 1911 and Sig P226 are getting old. I want to replace both and get one new, which should it be?

Thanks
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Old June 9, 2008, 03:54 AM   #2
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well 1911 is just a style/design of pistol- you didnt name any particular manufacturer i.e. Springfield Armory, Taurus, etc.
Sig makes a 1911 pistol- GSR model.
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Old June 9, 2008, 04:30 AM   #3
Firepower!
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Good point Sir!
Well if I go sig it wont be 1911 base. Most likely 226, 239 or 220 elite. I am open to any 1911, other than Taurus. I am simply refusing to buy any Taurus until I see significant quality control. Thanks.
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Old June 9, 2008, 04:39 AM   #4
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R.O.F.L.

Quote:
well 1911 is just a style/design of pistol- you didnt name any particular manufacturer i.e. Springfield Armory, Taurus, etc.
Sig makes a 1911 pistol- GSR model.
Yeah, what's more reliable, a 1911 or "Springfield"? Although G.S.R. vs P220 for instance would be an interesting topic. I think the P220 would win, or take the poll anyways.


Quote:
And then G v. 1911 always ends up with a war.
Always (but I'm certain this one won't)!


Quote:
I am simply refusing to buy any Taurus until I see significant quality control.
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Old June 9, 2008, 04:54 AM   #5
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Why not combine the two and get a .45 caliber SIG 220 ???


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Old June 9, 2008, 05:49 AM   #6
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If I were in OP's shoes, I would follow the advice of LanceOregon.
I am really a big fan of SigSauer classical P series platform, and its combination with a .45 ACP pipe is unbeatable, IMHO.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:11 AM   #7
Firepower!
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sig 220

Well you guys have got me thinking Sig220.

SIGs are one hell of a pistols that can take beating. I am not sure if I can that about 1911 base pistol. On the other hand there is much more offered in 1911 as far collection goes.

Nevertheless my original question is reliability.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:42 AM   #8
dave421
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It's just too open ended. You're going to have to go into more detail about what you want. Price, styles, options, etc. There's just way too many 1911s out there to say what is more reliable. I voted Sig but there are 1911s that are just as reliable, espeically now that Sig seems to be having some issues with some P220s (extractors I believe?).
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:46 AM   #9
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Have 3 different brands of 1911s: Rock Island, Springfield, and Para Ordnance - all have been 100% reliable. Have 4 Sigs, one in .45 - all have been 100% reliable. Can't vote as one platform is no better than the other IMHO...
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Old June 9, 2008, 07:17 AM   #10
Firepower!
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Well the only 1911s on the table for me are Colt, Springfield and CZ. I dont have access to others here in PK. Price? well it does not matter since all the prices are distorted once a piece is imported here. There is usually a 1000% hike for new products. For example we pay over 5K for a glock!
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Old June 9, 2008, 07:24 AM   #11
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That being the case, get the Sig P220 and enjoy it for the rest of your life. Worldwide reputation, parts anywhere and generally one of the most accurate pistols "out of the box".

Good luck & good shooting.
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Old June 9, 2008, 11:25 AM   #12
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I'd put up a quality properly setup 1911 like a SA Pro or Les Baer against any SIG P220 in .45 anyday. Although SIG Sauer seems to be having problems with their current extractors (see SIGForum) so maybe wait a bit once they get new P220's running as well as they used to.

Now if the comparison was between a 1911 and a P226 9mm I'd give the edge to the P226 9mm. In my experience both the P220 and 1911 are acceptably reliable for personal defense/duty use but the P226 9mm is on another level along with the Glock 17 and Beretta 92FS.

As for "hard use" and long term durability a 1911 will more likely outlast either aluminum framed guns with proper preventative maintenance and parts replacement.
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Old June 9, 2008, 11:27 AM   #13
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That being the case, get the Sig P220 and enjoy it for the rest of your life. Worldwide reputation, parts anywhere and generally one of the most accurate pistols "out of the box".

Good luck & good shooting.
This is no longer the case. Search your favorite forum and you will see that the P220 with a stainless steel slide has extractor problems. Lots of FTF.
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Old June 9, 2008, 01:16 PM   #14
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The conventional wisdom does seem to indicate the newer Sigs aren't up to the standards of the older Sigs. And the 3 series Sigs aren't that good either. But if you can get a "Made In W. Germany" P220 it should last you a lifetime and someone else's lifetime after that.

I like both Sig's and 1911's but I ended up with a P220 myself. I wanted the firepower of the .45 because of the great rep the 1911 has but I felt like I was getting a much better deal on the P220 and it has more modern functions IMO. I feel safe carrying a round in the tube for example but I wouldn't in a 1911. Plus there's the weight issue.

Both are fine weapons (the maker of your 1911 has a lot to do with how good it would be of course) but there are better choices in each category and not so good choices in each. I'll keep my "Made In W. Germany" P220 for as long as I live probably because it shoots great and has all the features I want except a rail and I can live without that. I know it's an older gun but it's probably better than the newer stuff.

I'd suggest finding info on more specific models to choose and going from there. Just asking about a 1911 leaves a heck of a lot of room for more questions. And some Sig's are better than others too. A gun is something you don't want to take chances on. Find out which ones are good and which aren't and don't forget to check how well they feel to you. That's very important.
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Old June 9, 2008, 02:43 PM   #15
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I'm going to vote for a well tuned 1911 from Wilson Combat in whatever caliber you like ( personally I have them in 9mm, .40 and .45 acp ). I especially like the CQB or Protector models in 5" barrels. When I carry - I carry a CQB in .45 acp almost all the time.

I also have Sig all stainless 226's in 9mm and .40 - and they are very good guns. I bought them about 2 years ago / I shoot them pretty well - but the triggers cannot compare to a well tuned 1911.

All of my guns from Wilson Combat have run flawlessly right out of the box - and that's why I carry them - but I can't say that for my 1911's like Kimber, Les Baer or Ed Brown ( they all had a long break in period ..). The Sigs I have also ran flawlessly right out of the box.

I would not personally rely on a 9mm for defense, especially when I have other options. The double stack sigs - are nice to have - but an extra mag for a 1911 doesn't make me feel outgunned either. A 12 round mag for the Sig 226 in .40 is a good option though too ...... but I still come back to a well tuned 1911 ( just makes me feel warm and fuzzy ...).
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:15 PM   #16
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Uh, replace them both with Glocks. Need I tell you this?

Also, 1911's don't seem to do well in reliability polls. I don't think I'll ever get one.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:17 PM   #17
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The P226 in 9 mm is the most reliable and durable of the Sigs - excepting their 1911s as I have no reliable long term data on them.

1911s can be reliable depending on how they are set up but they will require an armorer (it could be YOU) if and when parts wear out. Something to consider.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:37 PM   #18
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Also, 1911's don't seem to do well in reliability polls. I don't think I'll ever get one.
This is because most of the consumer grade high end 1911's cater to folks who want tight tolerances.

You get a $400-$700 1911 and you'll have a reliable weapon with reasonable accuracy, but some MIM or cast parts that might break (safety, extractor, etc) after a while.

You get a $700-$1500 1911 and you'll get a gun that repeatedly hits a gnat's eye from a ransom rest, but it'll have feed issues. Parts probably are forged and milled in most critical areas. If you have a lemon, it can be fixed by a smith or the factory and made a very, very nice gun.

You get a $1500+ 1911 and it will most likely be perfect out the gate.

Most of the 1911's sold in the US fall into the second tier guns. All the parts to brag about, and nice accuracy on paper, but the hand fitting by a reputed gunsmith just isn't there. No personal reputation to protect... just a company that can withstand a batch of lemons with little effect to their name overall.

GLOCKs, on the other hand, aren't even offered as a custom gun. They are a service gun only. They don't match the accuracy of the $700-$1500 1911's on their best days, and will never compare to the longevity and craftsmanship (and accuracy as well) of the top end 1911 master smiths.

If you take the same $550 and buy a Glock with one guy's money and a Springer Mil-Spec with another guy's money, I'd wager dollars to donuts that they'd shoot the same for accuracy and round count between failures.

A lot of the middle ground guns (coughKimberandSigcough) give 1911's the bad reputation they have.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:41 PM   #19
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Thing is... the $550 Glock will function with no lube, in sand/mud, and generally any condition you want.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:41 PM   #20
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You need to decide whether you want to own another 1911 or not.

If you decide you want another 1911 then do a ‘1911’ search by brand – there will be tons of info. You can also post a thread asking 1911 owners of brands you’re interested in for feedback. You can also check out the dedicated 1911 forums.

I own only Colt 1911s, the two I bought new recently (last six months) have been perfect out of the box and I can recommend them.

But is all starts with you making the decision.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:54 PM   #21
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Don't get a new Sig, they have a much higher problem rate than the older, more basic designs.

For example, I have a 1994 220. No problems at all, except for a snapped trigger return spring, which is to be expected on that vintage. No FT-anything.

My friend's brand new 229 stainless 9mm did nothing but jam on everything we tried at the range for it's maiden voyage. It was pointed out to me the recoil spring takes time to 'break in'. It might've cleared up by now, I certainly hope so for his sake.

I've read countless stories of the newer 220's having problems, especially the 'carry' model.

I voted 'Sig', but only on the older models.

Just a thought.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:55 PM   #22
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Thing is... the $550 Glock will function with no lube, in sand/mud, and generally any condition you want.
Glocks fail just like any other pistol. They are more tolerant to neglect than some other designs, but no more so than a properly spec'd 1911.
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Old June 9, 2008, 06:55 PM   #23
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This is because most of the consumer grade high end 1911's cater to folks who want tight tolerances.

You get a $400-$700 1911 and you'll have a reliable weapon with reasonable accuracy, but some MIM or cast parts that might break (safety, extractor, etc) after a while.

You get a $700-$1500 1911 and you'll get a gun that repeatedly hits a gnat's eye from a ransom rest, but it'll have feed issues. Parts probably are forged and milled in most critical areas. If you have a lemon, it can be fixed by a smith or the factory and made a very, very nice gun.

You get a $1500+ 1911 and it will most likely be perfect out the gate.

Most of the 1911's sold in the US fall into the second tier guns. All the parts to brag about, and nice accuracy on paper, but the hand fitting by a reputed gunsmith just isn't there. No personal reputation to protect... just a company that can withstand a batch of lemons with little effect to their name overall.

GLOCKs, on the other hand, aren't even offered as a custom gun. They are a service gun only. They don't match the accuracy of the $700-$1500 1911's on their best days, and will never compare to the longevity and craftsmanship (and accuracy as well) of the top end 1911 master smiths.

If you take the same $550 and buy a Glock with one guy's money and a Springer Mil-Spec with another guy's money, I'd wager dollars to donuts that they'd shoot the same for accuracy and round count between failures.

A lot of the middle ground guns (coughKimberandSigcough) give 1911's the bad reputation they have.
Great post azredhawk.
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Old June 9, 2008, 07:06 PM   #24
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Thing is... the $550 Glock will function with no lube, in sand/mud, and generally any condition you want.
Myth.

A fellow over on THR hosted a bunch of folks on his property and ran a 1000 round torture test competition to put to bed the claims of infallibility of both sides of the camp.

I don't remember the exact winners, but I want to say it was very evenly split between 9mm Glocks and .45acp 1911's.

.45acp Glocks broke down fairly quickly.

I wish I could find the thread (it was cross-posted here at TFL as well), but I'm unable to find it with the search feature of either site.

There were about 25 shooters present, and only 3-4 guns finished 1000 rounds with no malfunctions. No 10mm's or .40S&W's finished... only Glock 9mm's and 1911 .45acp's.

The glocks were stopped by excess dirt, grime and powder residue. So, while a Glock can shoot while packed full of sand according to Tommy Lee Jones... this test showed it faring less well in a controlled range environment where it only had to deal with its own filth it produced.

I'm not saying the $550 1911 is any better....

I'm just saying it's not any worse.

To the OP: Sorry for going off topic. My vote is for the 1911, but that's purely as a southpaw that respects Sig handguns except for the annoying placement of their decocker control. If they made a lefty-decocker, I'd be all over it.
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Old June 9, 2008, 07:43 PM   #25
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"You get a $700-$1500 1911 and you'll get a gun that repeatedly hits a gnat's eye from a ransom rest, but it'll have feed issues. Parts probably are forged and milled in most critical areas. If you have a lemon, it can be fixed by a smith or the factory and made a very, very nice gun."
I beg to differ. No issues with three TRPs and one Les Baer TRS...

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