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Old June 30, 2008, 10:41 AM   #51
alistaire
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I am an American.
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Old June 30, 2008, 10:47 AM   #52
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I carry because I refuse to standby and watch my family get hurt by some crack head. I refuse to roll over and play victim.
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Old June 30, 2008, 11:00 AM   #53
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I carry because its my right.
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Old June 30, 2008, 12:14 PM   #54
Rifleman 173
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Because it gives me another option for survival should I need to or want to use it. By carrying I at least have the ability to do something should I so desire.
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Old June 30, 2008, 12:20 PM   #55
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I posted this before; but...

...as it turns out, I carry because I am a "small insignificant and paranoid man who has issues with authority and I am looking for an excuse to kill someone to prove I am a tough guy."

At least that is what I learned one day from an old guy buying a deer rifle at the gun counter at Sportsman's Warehouse when he was talking to the clerk about what a shame it was that they deemed it necessary to carry all those "pocket pistols" on the wall.

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Old June 30, 2008, 12:39 PM   #56
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Well.... at least you are honest with yourself and embracing that....

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Old June 30, 2008, 12:55 PM   #57
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Because that's what guns were made for.
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Old June 30, 2008, 12:58 PM   #58
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i carry because I live in a free state and I can!

plus i live near the border and the illegals don't really give a darn about the law and have been known to appear out of know where and try to rob you etc.. Armed and not needing it is better than unarmed and needing it IMHO.
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Old June 30, 2008, 02:20 PM   #59
alto
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The fine writer, John Connor, wrote that he tries to give a well thought out answer to the question 'why do you carry'..He wrote, that when he knows he's talking with someone who is thought-challenged, he leans in, gets real quite and says " It's because the Killer Clowns are coming.. ya know..some of them are canibals '. He wrote that in the wonderful article 'For Little Lizzy'.
I carry because I want a fighting chance against criminals that would do me or my family, harm.
I don't know why it upsets some people that others choose a mouse gun. I don't consider those who do carry smaller arms as morons nor do I think they 'need' my advice on what to carry. It's none of my business what they choose to do. I'm pleased that they choose to do something instead of just being sheep. It's also my understanding, that the Mossad carries .22.
If asked, I would offer my opinion of my choices but, my opinion doesn't matter much except to me. We carry what we carry and train with what we choose.
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Old June 30, 2008, 03:16 PM   #60
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Because my Lord and my Master tells me that the world is not going to get any better before His return. See Matthew Chapter 24. He also tells me to not be afraid and to be ready. I heed and I obey.
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Old June 30, 2008, 09:46 PM   #61
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It is my responsibility to look out for #1. No one else is going to do it for me. If I had a family, they would take that place, but I don't, so I am #1.

Also, I love being around the people I love, and would like to think I have the opportunity to preserve that if I can. Yet another tool in the toolbox. Besides, it can reach farther than my arm.
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Old June 30, 2008, 10:26 PM   #62
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Because I cannot fit, much less carry, an American Bulldog on my person...
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Old July 1, 2008, 12:56 AM   #63
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Because in our Society we are split up into 3 catagories.

Sheep (those that live in denial and refuse to believe that the threat from the Wolf is real until it is too late. Sheep attack Sheepdogs for being like a Wolf, but they forget that the Sheepdog, while having fangs like the Wolf, would never hurt the sheep and protect the sheep at all cost.)

Wolves (Those that wish to do harm to the sheep and sheepdogs. Wolves would be the criminals, terrorists, and other violent people with no regard for human life.)

and

Sheepdogs (Those people that stand on a fence, walk a beat, or put themselves in harms way to say, "Not on my Watch!" and will do everything including laying down thier own life to protect the flock. You don't have to be a person in uniform to be a sheepdog. You only need to be a common citizen that decides to stand up to the Wolves.)

I choose to be a Sheepdog

Everyone should read this - http://mwkworks.com/onsheepwolvesandsheepdogs.html
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Old July 1, 2008, 07:32 PM   #64
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Copied this from another forum. I agree with the writer, and it's exactly why I carry.
------------------------------------------------------------

If you or anyone you know needs a reason to CCW, here it is.
Here are two strong reasons why you should do everything you can to buy a gun, get training and secure a Concealed Weapon Permit so you can carry a gun with you everywhere you go.

The first is a jail house interview with a thug who recently shot two men simply because they didn’t have a cigarette to give him. That’s right. No cigarettes so he “went in dat mode” and killed them by shooting them repeatedly in the torso and head.

What you need to recognize is this can happen to anyone at any time. It could have happened to you.

You carry a handgun EVERYWHERE YOU GO because it is light weight, portable and can always be on your person as an emergency defense tool. Just like a life jacket in a boat or a seatbelt in a car— you wear it hoping you never have to use it, but if you do, it is the only piece of equipment that will save you!

Also note what a classic sociopath the killer is. The enablers of the world will blame his actions on a lack opportunity, an abusive mother, no father figure, gang influence, drug abuse, learning disabilities, violent video games, etc. They can blame it on whatever they want. The fact of the matter is he is a cold blooded killer who took two lives and there are thousands more like him who will do the same thing if given the chance to do so by those who actively seek to disarm law-abiding citizens— leaving the balance of power on the street in the hands of people who will kill for lack of a couple of cigarettes or pocket cash.

Watch this very revealing jail house interview. Although there is profanity throughout the interview, I believe every member of your family over the age of 16 should watch this interview as a reality check of the type of murdering sociopaths walking the streets of every city across the county.

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/...Y&pageId=1.1.1

This kid is not a sociopathic, cold blooded killer like his cousin, but he certainly lacks the remorse that one would expect if you are truly sorry for your actions in the killing of two men for nothing more than a few dollars…

http://www.myfoxdfw.com/myfox/pages/...Y&pageId=1.1.1

http://www.ignatius-piazza-front-sig...weapon-permit/
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Old July 1, 2008, 07:37 PM   #65
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Quote:
Cause I couldn't carry a cop in my pocket, that's why.
You couldn't be more correct.
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Old July 17, 2008, 11:41 PM   #66
ECHOONE
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The Police arrest people they rarely stop the violent act in progress thats why I carry,besides being disabled which makes me an easy mark to begin with.Last but not least I dont need a reason it's my right!
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Old July 31, 2008, 04:39 PM   #67
Glenn Bartley
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Well, one I carry for work. I also carry because there are bad people out there who want to take my liberties, who want to rob my belongings, and who are willing to hurt or kill me and my loved ones to do either. I am certainly willing to defend myself and my loved ones from them.
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Old July 31, 2008, 04:52 PM   #68
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Because cops are too heavy to carry?

http://munchkinwrangler.blogspot.com...ilization.html
Quote:
why the gun is civilization. - by Marko Kloos

Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a single gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly.

Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation...and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
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Old July 31, 2008, 05:27 PM   #69
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Why do some folks voluntarily carry mouse gun caliber handguns?
You know, you would think that after having 3 threads shut down on this issue you would quit beating the dead horse. Folks have told you over and over and over the reasons, other people have told you the same reasons here, yet you keep asking the same question and tossing around the same old stale arguments. People carry mouseguns because handguns are a compromise. ALL handguns have that element in them. YOU have chosen certain points in your choice of a handgun that are a compromise. Others choose a different point to compromise. The facts do not change...having a gun--ANY GUN (even the mousegun)--solves the DGU problem in the overwhelming number of cases. In some cases the handgun doesn't work, period. You want to worry about a very small set of factors, other folks want to worry about the broader picture. So, people carry mouseguns because they work fine. They have worked fine in the past, they work fine now, and they will work fine in the future.
Quote:
IMO the contradiction is both deciding to carry for self defense only to carry a gun not completely capable and deciding there is a need to carry a gun then selectively carrying more and less powerful weapons or no weapon at all.
No handgun is completely capable. All have some form of compromise to them.
Quote:
There is a segment on TFL who believe that there is little or no difference, in terms of self preservation with a firearm, between a mouse gun 22/25 and heavier calibers 38 and up.
It goes far beyond a belief, it is a fact. I know that bothers you a lot, but none the less it is a fact.

Quote:
People have very legitimate reasons for their mouse guns though. I've not heard anyone trying to convince us that a .25 is better all around, just that it is sometimes appropriate.
Exactly. As I said earlier, they will all work most of the time. The main concern is to have a gun. History and all the available information show the big calibers and big guns work well for self defense. History and all the available information also show that smaller guns and smaller calibers work well for self defense.
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Old July 31, 2008, 05:29 PM   #70
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Quote:
The first is a jail house interview with a thug who recently shot two men simply because they didn’t have a cigarette to give him. That’s right. No cigarettes so he “went in dat mode” and killed them by shooting them repeatedly in the torso and head.
It's important to realize that nobody got killed because they didn't have a cigarette.

Got a cigarette?, loan me five bucks, you got the time?, etc., etc. All common tactics used by crimminals to "interview" their victims and size them up, and APPROACH.

If you see the cold, chilling video and observe the absolute hate in the eyes of the killer, and listen to his statement making every circunmstance other than himself responsible--- then that should answer any questions as to why we carry, and make further debate unnecessary----not that it needs to be to have an interesting debate.

His comment with respect to the loved ones of the murder victim doesn't come as a surprise once you've listened that far.

I'd suggest that's the real reason we all carry. It's mine.
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Old July 31, 2008, 06:34 PM   #71
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Because I've carried handguns since I was 18-I'm 62 now.I spent 41/2 years in the military and 26 years in LE.I feel funny without a handgun.In recent years I have had serious health problems which means I have no intention of duking it out with a mugger or crazy sob that wants to threaten me or a member of my family.My city has gotten worse in terms of random violence.
I am a very disciplined individual with regard to firearms.I will never fire at someone because I lose my temper.Only to prevent a serious assault.In over 20 years on the bricks,including 9 assigned to narcotics I dealt with lots of dangerous and armed violators and never fired a shot.My favorite weapon was a flashlight.I used my handgun as a bludgeon on a number of occasions,including one where the BG had a pistol pointed at me.I didn't think,just acted.His lucky night as he told me later.
It is also my right as an American to own a handgun and I believe to carry one if I can demonstrate that I am competent(even cops and soldiers have to qualify to carry)-and no halfass commie politician is going to make me surrender that right unless I am certifiably insane or convicted of a felony.that last should be restricted to violent felonies.I don't think Martha Stewart would stick up a 7-11 if she had a handgun.

Last edited by sandbag; July 31, 2008 at 06:35 PM. Reason: repetition
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Old August 1, 2008, 07:39 AM   #72
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David Armstrong,
Quote:
No handgun is completely capable. All have some form of compromise to them
So advocating "compromise" down to the lowest possible caliber is your idea of helping fellow shooters.

Quote:
Exactly. As I said earlier, they will all work most of the time. The main concern is to have a gun. History and all the available information show the big calibers and big guns work well for self defense. History and all the available information also show that smaller guns and smaller calibers work well for self defense.
Most of the time we won't need a gun. History and all the information available shows we will likely never need a gun. So the act of carrying a gun is for the unlikely event. So on one hand we prepare for the unlikely by carrying only to not prepare for the unlikely of needing a heavier caliber. That is a huge contradiction IMO. To use the excuse of compromise is yet another.

You keep justifying folks choice of carrying puny calibers as primary and I will continue to challenge it. You tout history and probabilities and I will point out what calibers every profession that might face an armed foe will not carry as primary. You push statistics and I will point out ballistics. You suggest folks carry what is convenient and I will suggest they carry what gives them the better chance of surviving.

You aren't wrong David just hypnotized by statistics. They do leave open the possibility of needing heavier. At that point you have just condemned someone who took your advice and possibly yourself.
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Old August 1, 2008, 02:31 PM   #73
David Armstrong
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Quote:
So advocating "compromise" down to the lowest possible caliber is your idea of helping fellow shooters.
No. My idea of helping out fellow shooters is informing them of the actual facts rather than a sensationalized bit of hype, and allowing them to make an informed decision based on their personal situation and the facts.
Quote:
Most of the time we won't need a gun. History and all the information available shows we will likely never need a gun.
Depends on what you mean by "likely never". Personally I think the lifetime chances for needing a gun are fairly good.
Quote:
So on one hand we prepare for the unlikely by carrying only to not prepare for the unlikely of needing a heavier caliber. That is a huge contradiction IMO.
As we have discussed numerous times before, if you understood statistics and analysis, and could figure out the concept of cost versus benefit, it wouldn't seem such a huge contradiction. Most people, fortunately,don't have that problem, thus the large number of small guns and small caliber guns carried.
Quote:
To use the excuse of compromise is yet another.
Again, your choice of handgun and caliber are a compromise. It seems somewhat hypocritical to me for you to complain about compromise when your choice is perhaps the epitome of compromise.
Quote:
You keep justifying folks choice of carrying puny calibers as primary and I will continue to challenge it.
Yes, I know. Same old rhetoric, long on argument but short on facts. Instead of challenging what is said, you might try to find some facts that show the position to be wrong. Of course, you can't do that, so you are left with the same old nonsense.
Quote:
You tout history and probabilities and I will point out what calibers every profession that might face an armed foe will not carry as primary.
Sigh. As we've discussed before there is a huge difference in the role of those who face the armed foe professionally and those who carry for personal self defense. What is good for one is not necessarily needed for the other. If you want to discuss typical CCW that is what you should focus on, not LE, military, and so on.
Quote:
You suggest folks carry what is convenient and I will suggest they carry what gives them the better chance of surviving.
Ok, this should be easy, then. What is the difference (chance) of surviving a DGU between persons of similar skill but armed with (A) 1911-model .45 (B) 9mm Glock 17 (C) .357 S&W 65 4" (D) Walther PPK .380 (E) Kel-Tec PT-32 and (D) Beretta 21 .22LR. Come on, give us your percentages/chances of survival and how you determined them with some sort of scientific validity. This I'd really like to see. Of course, you can't do it. That is the problem with your "suggestions" in this area, they have little or no scientific, factual, or historical basis behind them. In fact, about the only thing going for them is that is the way you think things should be, and Heaven help us if we try to confuse you with actual facts. BTW, for the record, I don't suggest people carry what is convenient. I suggest people carry what they are comfortable carrying AND confident that it will do the job for their situation.
Quote:
At that point you have just condemned someone who took your advice and possibly yourself.
My advice is to have a gun with you that you can use well and is reliable. I'd bet a fair amount that saves more than it condemns. As for myself, I'll be glad to compare my experience, training, and actual DGUs with you any time.
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Old August 1, 2008, 08:29 PM   #74
Brian Pfleuger
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Here's why...

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_0824.jpg (241.2 KB, 78 views)
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Old August 3, 2008, 12:34 PM   #75
threegun
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Quote:
Most people, fortunately,don't have that problem, thus the large number of small guns and small caliber guns carried.
People I know(the few I know that carry puny anyway) carry puny because they will not carry bigger from laziness. Better to have any gun than no gun. The difference is they know that they are not as well armed as with a larger caliber weapon. They understand that their choice to carry puny might come back to bit them on the rump.

Quote:
No. My idea of helping out fellow shooters is informing them of the actual facts rather than a sensationalized bit of hype, and allowing them to make an informed decision based on their personal situation and the facts.
Then give them all the facts not just your biased version. You always chime in with one side of the debate. BTW there is nothing sensational about recommending a caliber that can reliably do what needs to be done to stop an attacker.

Quote:
Depends on what you mean by "likely never". Personally I think the lifetime chances for needing a gun are fairly good.
Personally?? No stats today.....wonder why? You reckon they might agree with me?

Quote:
Yes, I know. Same old rhetoric, long on argument but short on facts. Instead of challenging what is said, you might try to find some facts that show the position to be wrong. Of course, you can't do that, so you are left with the same old nonsense.
Your facts are not wrong. Its your aggressive adherence to those stats that I have a problem with. You live in a world of numbers but only when they support your argument. Numbers say you will never need your gun.....still you carry (against the numbers). Then you cry foul when others go against the numbers (and recommend carrying bigger calibers). Thats the nonsense David.

Quote:
Ok, this should be easy, then. What is the difference (chance) of surviving a DGU between persons of similar skill but armed with (A) 1911-model .45 (B) 9mm Glock 17 (C) .357 S&W 65 4" (D) Walther PPK .380 (E) Kel-Tec PT-32 and (D) Beretta 21 .22LR. Come on, give us your percentages/chances of survival and how you determined them with some sort of scientific validity. This I'd really like to see. Of course, you can't do it. That is the problem with your "suggestions" in this area, they have little or no scientific, factual, or historical basis behind them. In fact, about the only thing going for them is that is the way you think things should be, and Heaven help us if we try to confuse you with actual facts. BTW, for the record, I don't suggest people carry what is convenient. I suggest people carry what they are comfortable carrying AND confident that it will do the job for their situation.
If making bigger deeper holes in an attacker doesn't equal a better chance at surviving...then I stand corrected. Please don't reply with a shot placement post I'm comparing hits of equal location.

Quote:
As for myself, I'll be glad to compare my experience, training, and actual DGUs with you any time.
Come to Florida and lets shoot together. Lets do FOF or any other training you would like. If you out perform me I'll pay for your trip (free vacation). We can see if your shooting skills and tactics are as sharp as your use of the English language. That you have few equals.
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