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Old May 26, 2008, 12:46 PM   #1
publius
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.45 Judge theoretical use.

We all know the Judge's accuracy with regular 45 colt ammo is iffy, at best. This essentially makes it a .410 revolver, an idea that has always appealed to me. But the rifleing really kills the pattern, in what would already be a short range weapon. An unrifled barrel would obviously make it an SBR, then you have to go through hassle of getting the permit from ATF, and this would kill the sales of the Judge, thereby causing it tom be discountinued. What would keep Taurus from putting straight "rifleing" in the Judge? This, of course would really kill the Colt usefuleness, but in my mind it is really a novelty item built for the .410 round. Comments?
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Old May 26, 2008, 12:54 PM   #2
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The only potential use I've seen for it is a car hijacking where you're in the car and somebody is trying to get it in with you (or something similar at very, very short range). Load it with .410 buckshot and it'd be traumatic at contact distance. I don't understand the reception it's had.
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:04 PM   #3
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I got mine as part of a deal...it's a novelty/plinker. I may stoke it up with different loads for my wife to use as a HD gun. I just wish it was a 3" instead of a 6"
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:45 PM   #4
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Who spiked the water cooler in the design office?

What's worse is the marketing team that tried to sell it and did to the board of directors. It's neither fish nor fowl and will probably end up at CDNN by this time next year. I wish they would bring back a quality item like the Rossi 720. Or, maybe spend a few more bucks on quality control.
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:48 PM   #5
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I have one and I don't know what to do with it. It would be more useful even with the .410 if one could shoot the 3" .410's out of it. I think they had to name it because it is a poor .45 LC and isn't a very good .410 so they had to put an actual name instead of a caliber.
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Old May 26, 2008, 01:58 PM   #6
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Yes, you guys are proving my point, it is not really good with either ammo at this time and never can be good at both. My point is, if they would straight "rifle" the barrel it would reduce the poor pattern. Still would be a short range weapon, but it should improve the consistency of the pattern dramatically. Then it may pass as a fun plinking or snake gun. My only question is the straight rifleing legal in a barrel under 18."
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Old May 26, 2008, 02:17 PM   #7
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Good question on the rifling requirements

Are straight grooves even rifling at all? I would think not. I really doubt there is an argument to be made for getting one. In a hundred years it might have some sort of collectors value.
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Old May 26, 2008, 02:19 PM   #8
Glenn E. Meyer
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IMHO, it was designed to appeal as a SD gun for folks who were untrained and regarded it as a substitute for training.

Not knowing much about shotguns and rounds, they assume that the birdshot or buck will not need to be aimed and also will be guaranteed stoppers.

I know folks who bought for that and chortle that they have a fool proof weapon.

The 410 buck offers nothing more than a good handgun round. The bird shot is useful for snakes but nothing over a standard birdshot round for a 686.

The ad says you can shoot 5 45 LC rounds in a few seconds. So a Glock 30 can do that and then still have than number of 45 ACP available.
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Old May 26, 2008, 02:21 PM   #9
Bill DeShivs
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Thompson Center made the Contender in .410. It had a screw on choke that had straight rifling to counteract the spiral rifling in the barrel.
Maybe fitting a straight rifled choke is all that is necessary.
BTW- the marketing team actually did a good job. These guns are selling like crazy. Whether you see a use for it or not, people are buying them!
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Old May 26, 2008, 02:54 PM   #10
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We live in a rural area where rattlers are pretty common. I was going to get one for the wife to use when she went out to the barn to feed. After much searching and price comparing, I decided a $17 shovel fits the bill just as well.
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Old May 26, 2008, 04:02 PM   #11
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There were custom guns converted to 45/410 in the past that cost big bucks. Judges are only around $500. *** One can never have enough guns.
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Old May 26, 2008, 04:04 PM   #12
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Has anyone tried shooting .410 Slugs in one? It'd be interesting to see the accuracy of those.
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Old May 26, 2008, 04:09 PM   #13
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Here you go Webleymkv,

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
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Old May 26, 2008, 04:44 PM   #14
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I looked one over pretty good a couple of weeks ago. It was the 3" blue 'Night Court' version. Nice & light for a big fiveshooter. Cylinder walls aren't very thick, but the notches of course fall between the chambers. Rifling is next to non-existent, but it definitely had some twist to it, albeit 'slow'. This is not necessarily a bad thing. Folks say they don't shoot half bad with .45 Colts, but then I wouldn't expect it to group like a 1950 Target, either. I like fixed sights and these are easy to see, if perhaps not as durable as a steel ramp.

Probably the only thing that would put me off these guns is the circulating admonition against using Ruger-level .45 Colt loads. If this is fertilizer, then somebody correct me.

Otherwise, that's where Taurus screwed the pooch with this design. I would buy a short, handy .45 revolver that could handle Ruger-level loads, along with 2 1/2" 410 shells, even if it wasn't a target-grade gun.
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Old May 26, 2008, 05:08 PM   #15
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I have the 6" version, I wonder how this helps the 45lc ballistics. Would the extra three inches help offset the "deadspace" of the cylinder?
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Old May 26, 2008, 07:20 PM   #16
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I was standing at the pusher's counter - ready to buy a SS 6" last summer. Fate intervened - and I saw it come out of the display - and into it's new owner's hand... and not mine! I didn't need the .45 Colt capability - I have two 625MGs in .45 Colt. I was taken by that .410 capability. Did I want one bad enough to buy a humongous $800 BFR in .45/.410? How about that blocky 'Thunder Five' with it's 3" chambers? Nope. Seeing the Taurus adverts on the shooting shows got to me...

No problemo... a fellow presented at the shooting range I frequent with a blued 6" variant... and I had one of my 625MGs. We 'tested' each other's revolver. I appreciated fate that day... and the earlier day - I dodged a turkey, in my opinion. His ammo consisted of bird shot (#11?) and PMC & MagTech .45 Colt 'cowboy' loads. My 625MG had both 255gr LSWC and Speer #4484 250gr Gold Dots - at ~840 fps - far better protection - and a bit more recoil - my 625MGs sport wood or Dymondwood grips. He didn't like mine - and I was happy the Taurus was his. It was inaccurate with .45 Colts - and the two birdshot loads I shot at a full size silhouette target at 12yd left celestial 'swirl' patterns - with gaps large enough for families of snakes to escape unscathed. I hate that 'squishy' rubber ('ribber') grip, too. The trigger was typically new Taurus... it has to get better.

Before you go ga-ga over buck shot from a 2.5" .410, checkout the amount, diameter, mass, and velocity. A single 'cowboy' round of .452" 250gr LRNFP at 750 fps will likely do more damage. Of course, try to find 'defensive' .410 ammo outside of a well-stocked gunstore. No, the hype nearly got me... the harsh reality brought me to my senses... and fate, of course. You can buy shot loads for .45 Colts, too. And, didn't Indy use kerosene against snakes??

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Old May 26, 2008, 07:31 PM   #17
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It has potential as a survival and trail gun IMO with the right selection of shells. Still would rather have a 629 Mountain.
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Old May 26, 2008, 07:44 PM   #18
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Kris,

Just caught your post. You'd have to chronograph them to draw any conclusions.

Stainz,

The 410 in my hands would 20 foot snake gun, pure and simple. I do appreciate your observations all the same.

I'm really thinkin' that a 454 Super Redhawk, cut down to about 5", makes a whole lot more sense for an all-around handgun for my purposes. As has been mentioned in other threads, building your own shot loads is far from impossible.
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Old May 26, 2008, 07:48 PM   #19
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One thing is for sure, Taurus can't make enough of these. They sell like crazy.
I would much rather have a 44mag, or 454. But as the Novelty it is(and that's all it is) It is a decent/fun gun.
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Old May 26, 2008, 09:57 PM   #20
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It is a novelty piece. I wanted one from the day they were introduced and they were in the $300 price range then. Still have not bought one as I have other higher priority firearms on my list.

I think it would make a reasonable home defense gun loaded with 0000 buck. I think of it as sending many small projectiles in the direction of the target rather than one and it would point a lot quicker than a shotgun. Do I really care if it shoots 45LC well? No; but it will probably group okay at defensive ranges.

Snake gun? The only snakes that I would shoot with it are Water Moccasins. I don't kill rattle snakes or copperheads any more unless they bite me. That has not happened and I have seen a lot of them in the woods. But if that is your thing, 20 feet is an acceptable range for shot on a snake. It is hard to hit them with handguns in general.

I think it could be a good companion piece in the woods. It is not a heavy gun and should carry pretty easy in a holster in both barrel lengths.

With the success that Taurus has had, I have wondered why another company has not introduced a similar revolver. A screw in chock may work good enough to make it more practical as a shotgun.

It is a fun gun. I will let it go at that.
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Old May 26, 2008, 10:08 PM   #21
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the only way i would use this as a defense gun is with a slug or .45 lc. the buckshot does not get enough penetration in the test's i've read and the birdshot might blind someone, but still, not very good for defense.
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Old May 27, 2008, 08:08 AM   #22
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Sarge,

Re the shorter barrel .454 SRH - or .480 SRH - I agree! Sadly, Ruger cut the SRH's to 2.5" for their 'Alaskans' - and the RHs, with their inferior lockwork, to 4". I think that was a mistake... a 4"-5" SRH in .454 or .480 Ruger (.475 Linebaugh-lite) would get my attention - again (I owned a 7.5" .454 SRH for years!).

Of course, the .45/.410 bandwagon has been out of the stall for some time - the MR BFR in .45/.410 (Same 'Maxine' frame as the .45-70 BFR...) and the one-off 3" chambered 'Thunder Five' having been available for years.

The 'Judge' is selling too well - I doubt they'll be discounted by CDNN any time soon. Of course, Taurus had good selling products in their 5-shot .44 Specials and .45 ACPs, 'Stellar' clips and all - and they are gone now. Go figure!

I will shamelessly state that, despite my shooting one last year - and not being overall pleased with the experience - I still check the stock and price every trip to the store... and still ponder...

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Old May 27, 2008, 08:56 AM   #23
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+1 to what BILL said...

Quote:
Thompson Center made the Contender in .410. It had a screw on choke that had straight rifling to counteract the spiral rifling in the barrel.
Maybe fitting a straight rifled choke is all that is necessary.
I have a couple of .410 / 45 Colt Contender barrels... one 10", & one 16"... the 10" has never interested me, but the 16" is used all the time to dispatch rabbits & red pine squirrels around the farm... I have no trouble taking rabbits out to 25-30 yards with the 16" barrel, with the "shot straightening" choke tube in

I'm not sure how hard it would be to change the barrel out, but it might actually be easier to machine a Contender barrel to fit the Judge ???
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Old May 27, 2008, 10:00 AM   #24
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I own a judge 3” and while it definitely has limitations, there are two things that I can say about it very definitively. 1 As others have mentioned it is a real fast seller, and 2 every time I go to the range with it some one wants to shoot it and of the 10 or so people that I have had use it all but one raved about how “cool” and fun it was. Since to most of us shooting is a hobby, then what is the problem with having a cool, fun gun? Plus it will kill a snake at well beyond the range that a snake is an imminent threat, and with 45 colt loads it is very reasonably accurate for defense out to 25 yards. I have not tested the buck shot loads though; I have not found them at the places that I usually shop.
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Old May 27, 2008, 01:15 PM   #25
Bill DeShivs
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The older T/C Contenders used an external choke.
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