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Old July 8, 2008, 10:20 AM   #1
GPossenti
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Home invasion escape plan

My wife went to a self-defense class last night. The instructor told her the best thing to do in case of a home invasion at night is stay in the bedroom, look out the window for additional BGs, then climb out the window if it's clear and call the cops.

Our bedroom is on the polar opposite side of the house from the carport. If I were to break into my own house, I'd do it through the carport. There's cover on three sides in that position, (4 if you count the car as cover). We can't see the carport from our bedroom window.

My plan was always to either stay in the bedroom with the door closed and gun in hand, or to crack the door and take up position on one knee peeking around the doorway.

Any thoughts?
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Old July 8, 2008, 10:41 AM   #2
Jim Watson
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I think you have the right idea. Anybody willing to keep and use a gun for self defense is generally better off to fort up in their own home. Resist the temptation to try to clear the house, just hold a position and shoot any intruder. Let them steal what they like from the rest of the house.

I could see bailing out only for the unarmed.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:01 AM   #3
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I can't 'fort up' or escape out the back window. I need to provide support for our dogs.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:10 AM   #4
Glenn E. Meyer
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No offense - but aren't dogs expendable as compared to humans. Not trying to start a flame war but would one enter a gun fight area for your dogs?

Of course, that is a personal choice - I'm just suggesting that getting the humans to hunker down seems safer.

Also, if it is a fight and a door is visibly opened, is that a clue to shoot the door area up - it's not real cover.

I think you would want the advantage of ambushing the BGs when they are dealing with the door.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:15 AM   #5
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Our dog (black lab/rott mix) sleeps in our bedroom on the floor. Part of me wants to send her down the hallway to distract and attack Mr. Intruder while I make my way down the hall.

The other part of me thinks I should just keep the dog in the bedroom.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:20 AM   #6
Glenn E. Meyer
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Again, no offense - if the dog is valued, keep it with you.

If you send it down the hallway - it is like sending a round down the hall. You want the dog to engage the BG. Following the pooch just sets you up for getting killed.

The BG shoots the dog - you get bamboozled or distracted and get shot - not an unreasonable scenario.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:53 AM   #7
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This thread...

This sounds like a setup to get people to reveal their plans to the government when they send Blackwater after us.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:55 AM   #8
chris in va
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Quote:
but aren't dogs expendable as compared to humans
Some people don't think so.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:59 AM   #9
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but aren't dogs expendable as compared to humans.
Not for the POS who is standing, uninvited, inside my home.
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Old July 8, 2008, 12:00 PM   #10
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This sounds like a setup to get people to reveal their plans to the government when they send Blackwater after us.
Not true at all. From what I've seen of Blackwater, they'll open fire on your home with every thing they've got and when your home is in smoldering ruins and you are most assuredly bloody pulp, they'll then claim that you actually started the fight.

In all seriousness - your plan sounds like a good one. I always wonder why self-defense usually means running away. Without seeing your home, it sounds like your only option is to stand your ground and wait for the police to arrive.
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Old July 8, 2008, 02:01 PM   #11
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My bedroom is at the end of the hallway. I'm not trained to clear houses, and the other end of the hallway is shaped light a doughnut (kitchen, dining, living room all in a circle with one wall in the middle. Two doorways I can get shot from, so I'm not comfortable moving down the hallway.

As far as the dog is concerned, I was thinking it would be a two pronged attack. The dog and I would both go down the hall to attack, probably ending in a dead or wounded BG, but also possibly a dead or wounded dog.

I'm thinking staying at the doorway of the bedroom is my best bet. I don't like the idea of keeping the door to the bedroom closed. I can't see anything outside the room, and thus can't locate the BG. It's more a sense of helplessness.
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Old July 8, 2008, 02:19 PM   #12
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Why do you think attacking is the best strategy? You are the one moving away from cover or concealment to advance against opponents who may have taken up cover or concealment.

Going down a hallway is walking through the 'fatal' funnel. I'm just a FOG but in all my FOF - walking down a hallway towards folks with guns who can 'pie' you - esp. with more than one opponent seems not a good idea.

In class, the 'house clearers' (unless they were a trained team - and sometimes them) usually got killed.

I also opine that a standard door is not cover. If I were determined to 'get' you and could discern you are by the door - I'm hosing the door.
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Old July 8, 2008, 11:03 PM   #13
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I like the element of surprise. Problem with a dog in the bedroom is the barking. That may keep the BG from opening the door for fear of being attacked by the dog, but it may not. If you crack the door to peek, the dog may distract you when trying to get out.... I think I would keep the door closed and wait for the BG to open it, and then decide whether to attack or not. Keep a cell phone handy for 911, secure the family in your room. If there are children down the hall, I think I'd be following the dog on attack to try my best to save them...
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Old July 9, 2008, 12:17 AM   #14
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Glenn's got it pretty good, IMO. Attack is a no-no. Defense will almost always give you the greatest advantage and chance of survival, house-clearing the greatest disadvantage. And most doors, particularly interior doors, don't bother a bullet at all.

I like dogs as much as the next guy, but if the choice is dog or any of my poeple, well, all the people will have a nice funeral for the dog a few days later under the tree in the backyard. Dogs are easy to replace, getting a new daughter over here from Russia is tough!
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Old July 9, 2008, 01:26 AM   #15
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So what the heck do you do if your master bedroom has a huge sliding glass door that opens to the patio??? I also have a window that looks onto my covered patio. The bedroom door is on the opposite side of the sliding glass door. I'm thinking the best alternative is the master bathroom which is perpendicular both the bedroom door and the sliding glass doors.

While home invasions are rare, I can recall 2 that happened recently in Miami. One was in Coral Gables which is a pretty ritzy part of town. Its hard to imagine thing happening there since the police response time is insanely fast (about 3 minutes tops). The other hope invasion that made the news happened in the West part of Miami and ended up causing the Dolphin Mall to shut down when the bad guys holed up there.

You can pretend this stuff can never happen to you, but most people believe the economy is going to get worse before it gets better. I'm expecting crime to get worse, not better.
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Old July 9, 2008, 02:17 AM   #16
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I'm trained to clear a house.
... with a few other members of a team, and only in a situation that requires it. With my living arrangements, this would be unnecessary.

In my mind, this is more of a "war" situation, and I'd be taking a defensive position.

For me, I'll stick to holing up in the bedroom, armed with my 9mm w/ spare mags and a turned-off flashlight. I'd get my girlfriend in a corner with as much cover as possible and have her dial 911 on one of our cell phones, alerting the police of the situation and our position in the apartment.

I'd retain the element of surprise as much as possible. If it's obvious that the home invaders know I'm in there, I'd yell that I'm armed, the police are on their way, and if that door opens an inch, they're dead (btw, I always keep my bedroom door locked, as well as the entrance doors to my apartment. I spent too many college years living in an apartment building where some drunk would accidentally walk into my living room looking for someone that lived on an entirely different floor).

However, there's a window in my bedroom. If I was awakened by an intruder breaking in through the window, he'd be dead before his foot touched the carpet.

I think keeping doors/windows locked is a simple, yet integral beginning to safety. Keep as many locked doors between you and the intruder as possible. That way, no one can "slip" into your house without audible warning -- glass breakage, kicking in a door, etc. You, or, better yet, your dog (wish I could have one here) will become alert to the situation at hand.
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Old July 9, 2008, 09:08 AM   #17
GPossenti
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Our bedroom door is parallel with the hallway, not perpendicular. You can't tell if the door is open or closed from the rest of the house.

It's a good idea to keep a safe defense instead of attacking.

Somebody on another site said if someone is trying to break through the deadbolt and chain on our door, to start shooting through the door before the BG even makes it in the house. I'm not so sure this is a good idea from a legal defense standpoint, unless I follow up by dragging the body inside the house.
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Old July 9, 2008, 09:16 AM   #18
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Some people don't think so.
Sadly true.
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Old July 9, 2008, 01:32 PM   #19
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The title sez "escape"

But we're all chit-chatting abt defending. So whataya do? Keep long pants, boots, shirt, and a bugout bag folded and ready to go by the bed. Put a trapdoor into the crawlspace under a dresser. If you're trying to get away from the government, they'll be expecting you to hide in the attic or crawlspace (I saw Dallas SWAT on TV, so it must be true) so excavate an underground garage and go through a tunnel to the surplus Patton tank you have fueled up and ready to go. Don't forget the jammer you'll need to confuse the infantry robot that they'll send controlled by a sniper team.

I mean, not that I think it's a ridiculous scenario or anything! Serious abt the folded clothes and boots. Get ready to move and don't count on a smooth escape.

The question is, why are we talking abt escaping from the bad guys? Don't we have guns, phones, and police? What more do we need? How much is enough? And aren't there a ton of threads abt defending your home? And don't every one of those threads have at least one poster talking abt going on the offensive and houseclearing and all that? And by "all that" I mean "all that the prosecutor will need to prove his point that you've chosen to go from being a defender to being an attacker who's out for blood"

Lest ye forget, every one of those posts by someone expressing a tendency to attack a BG reveals someone who could be distracted by a diversion and forgets what it is he's supposed to be defending. You think your wife is going to just let you go tra-la-lalling down the hall to get in a fight? You seriously would leave your wife [children, dogs, goldfish, robots] alone in order to go draw down on someone?

Are we talking abt a complete societal meltdown? Then, by all means, dig a tunnel into a neighbor's yard and take some topo maps with you and try to move your family into the woods and evade, leapfrogging into abandoned homes for food and whatnot as you go, and look for an armory and vehicles. This is as good a time as any to point out that you'll need to indoctrinate your family into going along, and also work on your cardio.

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Old July 9, 2008, 01:47 PM   #20
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Best chance of a home invasion around here is by mistake from the cops....then they'll shoot you dead if you think they are criminals and fire upon them. How are you to know? I would really like to know what to do, since many criminals will shout that they are police.
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Old July 9, 2008, 01:54 PM   #21
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Leave the escape plan for the BG, hold your position in the bedroom where you planned. You know the layout better...make him /her come to you...or hopefully grow a brain and leave.

No way would I subject myself to the added danger of whomever might be outside...unless they set fire to the place.
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Old July 9, 2008, 02:07 PM   #22
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Quite obviously, as put best by Winston Churchill, "If you are going through hell, keep going!" First priority should always be escape from danger.

That said, the "escape plan" poses an interesting question when you consider that, in Tennessee, we have the Castle Doctrine. Therefore, it is FAR easier to justify shooting someone if you and the intruder are in your home. There is a PRESUMPTION that you're justified. But, if you retreat into the street, are chased, and kill the intruder while out in the road, you have to go through the trouble of proving "reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily injury."

So, as a sub-question to the "escape plan" question, I ask: Is it better to stand your ground in your home, or to attempt to leave your home to get away?
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Old July 9, 2008, 02:19 PM   #23
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The instructor told her the best thing to do in case of a home invasion at night is stay in the bedroom, look out the window for additional BGs, then climb out the window if it's clear and call the cops.
That so called "instructor" should find another line of work. If one does not have a working cell phone then get one of the giveaway cell phones that can still be used to call 911.


Quote:
No way would I subject myself to the added danger of whomever might be outside...unless they set fire to the place.

#1
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Old July 9, 2008, 02:37 PM   #24
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So, as a sub-question to the "escape plan" question, I ask: Is it better to stand your ground in your home, or to attempt to leave your home to get away?
You have permission to be in your home, the BG don't! Stay there...if you wind up outside, there will be questions. Were you really trying to escape, or did you follow the BG with intent on killing them? Courts can make it look pretty bad on you for leaving the safety of your home, and "taking it to the streets". Sad but true.
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Old July 9, 2008, 02:52 PM   #25
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Here is my plan Alarm will go off, wife and I will arm ourselves and close the door and lock it. Wife will call 911 from he cell as the alarm company calls the police. We wait, if the BG want to come though the bed room then first it is me 12ga and 40 cal then my wife has 357 and ability to reload either 12ga or 40.

Odds are the alarm and our four dog will slow or make them think twice before moving to our bedroom.

If we are awake in our home then wife and I move the bedroom. Once we have kids they will be taught to go to our room. And once the children are of age they will be taught good solid firearm education and what to do. Being prepare and aware of the surroundings does not make you paranoid only ready for a day that I hope never comes.

No state or govt has a right to say your are not to defend your home and our love ones. We as citizen need to ensure that to our children and grandchildren. It is our duty.
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