US General apologizes for using Koran for target practice

[FireMax]

Seems some Iraqi Muslims were protesting because they found a copy of a koran riddled with bullets on a firing range. Apparently, a US soldier had shot at the koran and someone scribbled offensive language inside.

The soldier was disciplined and ordered to leave Iraq. Our military leaders then apologized. That is fine. However, I am not comfortable with this part of the story...

It said Colonel Ted Martin, a brigade commander, held up a new copy of the Koran which he kissed and touched to his forehead as he handed it to the tribal elders.

Is it just me, or does that seem like a bit much? Would this colonel hand me a Christian bible, kiss it and hold it to his forehead out of respect? I doubt that.

IMO, the US military is being forced to kiss too much ass in these Muslim countries. It reminds me of 1991 when the US leadership commanded our soldiers in Saudi Arabia to cut the American flag patches off of their uniforms so as not to anger the Saudis. Of course, that descision was swiftly reversed once the American people got word of it.

It all makes me wonder why we are there belittling ourselves.

U.S. soldier riddles Koran with bullets in Iraq
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080518/...ldier_koran_dc
By Khaled al-Ansary 11 minutes ago

BAGHDAD (Reuters) - An American soldier has been disciplined and ordered from Iraq, the U.S. military said on Sunday, for using a copy of the Koran for target practice at a shooting range near Baghdad.
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Such an act of desecration of the Muslim holy book could inflame anger against the U.S. military presence in Iraq, but an Iraqi community leader told Reuters an apology by senior American military commanders had helped calm tensions.

Saeed al-Zubaie, head of a U.S.-allied Sunni Arab tribal council in the area where the Koran was found, said the book had been used as target practice. It was peppered with 14 bullet holes and offensive language had been scrawled inside, he said.

"I was feeling bitterness, but as long as they apologized we are OK with them. Our anger has cooled," said Zubaie, adding that Sunni Arab tribal units who work alongside U.S. forces in the area had threatened to quit unless the military took action.

The U.S. television news network CNN said U.S. commanders were met by hundreds of protesters when they went to the village of Radwaniya near Baghdad to deliver the apology.

Colonel Bill Buckner, a U.S. military spokesman, said commanders were ordered to swiftly investigate after Iraqi police found the Koran on May 11 at a firing range in Radwaniya.

He described the incident as "serious and deeply troubling."

"Coalition commanders have briefed local leaders on the results of the investigation and expressed their deep regret," Buckner said in a statement.

"They have also undertaken disciplinary action against the soldier who was involved and he has been removed from Iraq."

Besides being shipped out of Iraq, it was not clear what other disciplinary action was being taken against the soldier.

CNN, which said it was present on Saturday when U.S. commanders made the apology in Radwaniya, said the soldier had been dismissed from his unit. His whereabouts were not immediately known.

In his statement, Buckner stressed that the U.S. military respected Islam and the Koran.

CNN said when Major-General Jeffery Hammond, the commander of U.S. troops in Baghdad, and other officers arrived to deliver the apology to local leaders in Radwaniya they were met by hundreds of protesting Sunni Arab tribesmen.

"I am a man of honor, I am a man of character. You have my word this will never happen again," Hammond told the crowd.

"In the most humble manner, I look into your eyes today and I say, please forgive me and my soldiers," CNN reported on its website.

It said Colonel Ted Martin, a brigade commander, held up a new copy of the Koran which he kissed and touched to his forehead as he handed it to the tribal elders.

"I hope that you'll accept this humble gift," Martin said.

[teeroux]

Well our soldiers there can just shoot an koran and come on home.

[Hawg Haggen]

Well our soldiers there can just shoot an koran and come on home.

Prolly after a court martial, time in the brig and a dishonorable discharge.

[benign.neglect]

What exactly is the crime one is charged with for shooting a Koran? I didnt realize shooting books was illegal?

[teeroux]

What exactly is the crime one is charged with for shooting a Koran?

the soldier would probably be charged with conduct unbecoming you sign your rights away when you enlist and are aparently supposed to uphold the religion and belief of whatever country they have you occupying that day.

[apr1775]

you sign your rights away when you enlist

Where in my enlistment contract did it say that?



I doubt he got a dishonorable discharge, that's for felony type stuff. Most likely busted down a pay grade and sent to a real crappy duty station. If there is a worse duty station than Iraq.

[Crosshair]

***. I'm Christian and I see no problem in someone destroying a bible as long as it is theirs. It's a book, a hunk of wood pulp with words printed inside. The words and stories in it are immaterial. The words and stories are the important part and that can't be destroyed.

Seriously, get over yourselves. It's a book.

[homefires]

It's called the UCMJ!

[Marko Kloos]

To the Muslims, the Quran is not "just a book", which is precisely the point. To them, the book itself is sacred, and to intentionally desecrate it is more offensive to a Muslim than it would be to many Americans if someone used Old Glory for target practice.

If the Koran is "just a book", then don't be offended if others consider our flag to be "just a piece of cloth", or the Constitution "just a piece of parchment."

If we can't be bothered to learn and respect cultural sensitivities other than our own, we not only have no business running the show in other countries, but we'll have no chance of success at it. You don't win people to your cause by defiling their sacred objects.

[benign.neglect]

If the Koran is "just a book", then don't be offended if others consider our flag to be "just a piece of cloth", or the Constitution "just a piece of parchment."

I am not offended by any of that. In fact, it sounds like free speech to me.

[dresden8]

Are there no muslims in America? Would you not feel insulted if the Ayatollah wiped his ass with the bible or the US flag?

Get a grip guys, it was an intentional insult to a people they are supposed to be helping, or do you not read the propaganda as to why the US is there.

[benign.neglect]

Would you not feel insulted if the Ayatollah wiped his ass with the bible or the US flag?

No, I don't care.
The US flag is a piece of cloth. Big deal.
Although I am a Christian, what someone else does with a copy of the Bible does not matter to me. They will end up paying for it in the hereafter. No need for me to get too worked up over it.

Punishing someone over destroying an inanimate object for target practice is the dumbest thing I have heard today.

[shortwave]

Marko Kloos, the American Flag has been desecrated in this country and nobody sent from here for it. our feelings towards our flag should be as strong as the Quran is to the Muslims. i do believe that "when in Rome, do as the Romans do'. that goes both ways. there are many things "ILLEGAL" aliens are getting by with in this country that my tax dollars(to no choice of my own) are supporting. we have many money hungry lawyers in this country that would represent Bin Laudin himself if the price was right. thats one reason why the illegals can break our laws and get by with it. IMO those lawyers should be charged with treason and hanged in the town square and the illegals caught here doing crime executed. p.s. again, i believe if your in another country, obey there laws. we need to re-write our own.

[The Tourist]

Originally Posted by Marko Kloos

To the Muslims, the Quran is not "just a book"

Considering the way our flag is treated worldwide, this doesn't tug on my heart strings.

Last night on cable I saw a promo showing four dead members of Blackwater being strung up on a bridge. As you'll remember, one of our female soldiers got in hot water simply for "humiliating" a prisoner.

Yeah, yeah, Americans are held to a higher standard.

We allow this point of view because we so easily fall for the criticism of our enemies. Here in The Peoples' Republik of Madison there are numerous folks who believe 9/11 was justifiable payback for our conduct oversees.

Our conduct? Yikes! Who other than Americans truck in food by the metric ton every time a typhoon knocks down a wicker hut? Who's buried at Omaha Beach? Is it 9,000 Frenchmen who were already living there?

I drive a truck because I need to carry my tools. Somewhere in a mud hutt in Sri Lanka is a goat herder who is really ticked off at me for burning Wisconsin's ethanol.

Turnabout is fair play. Why is the cost of goat meat so high?

We need to stop apologizing for every nuance we utter over a beer.

[PT111]

***. I'm Christian and I see no problem in someone destroying a bible as long as it is theirs. It's a book, a hunk of wood pulp with words printed inside. The words and stories in it are immaterial. The words and stories are the important part and that can't be destroyed.

Seriously, get over yourselves. It's a book.

Would you use a Bible as toilet paper or would you say something if you saw someone doing that?

[miboso]

***. I'm Christian

I guess I am just too much into stereotypes, but I expect better language from a self-professed Christian.

[The Tourist]

Originally Posted by PT111

a Bible as toilet paper

If memory serves, wasn't this exact thing mentioned on the first year of the TV show "Survivor"?

[LostOne]

lol, I wonder if they will run around blowing things up now because a book got destroyed, I remember when the Pope called Islam a violent religion - right after he did half the middle east ran around rioting and burning things up.

[dresden8]

The destruction and misuse of symbols is a very emotive issue, not just for muslims.

Here's one anyway, I could look for more but really can't be bothered.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...t=flag+burning

[elrod]

Wonder what would happen if one of theirs shot at a Bible over here? If they weren't in NY, Ill., or Calif., probably be met with a yawn.

Video of apology:
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/wor...gy.hammond.cnn

[toybox99615]

no matter how some of you try to rationalize the incident your forgetting some of the most critical point: it happened in Iraq. Americans are in Iraq working towards a goal of unifying a country and establishing a positive relationship with America.

A Staff Sargent who can not comprehend that doing something this foolish while in Iraq should not be trusted with the lives of others. Why he chose to use the Quran as a target is not cleary known. However he obviously chose to make it a target. His actions were certainly not justified.

Every day thousands of American troops are placing themselves in harms way. Our troops spend endless hours attempting to improve the lives of Iraqi people and improving the image of America. A incident lie this destroys the work of hundreds of good men and women working toward the goal of democracy.

This guy deserves what ever repercussions that fall on him. He is a Staff Sargent not some kid right out of boot. He was suppose to be a leader and positive image for his troops. He definatly proved he was neither by his own actions.

[wingman]

Americans are in Iraq working towards a goal of unifying a country and establishing a positive relationship with America.

Naive thinking to believe that we can unify a country by occupying, pie in the sky thinking, would be good for Sesame street.

[benign.neglect]

The fact that it is naive, and some would say idiotic, does not change the fact that it is this administration's current policy.

[FireMax]

Okay, you guys got a little off topic which is no big deal, but no one addressed the elephant in the room....

Regardless of where you stand on what the soldier did, how do you feel about a Colonel in the US Army kissing the Koran and touching it to his forehead and then giving it as a gift to the tribal elder? Don't you think that is a little too much ass kissing? Do you think some politician in the Bush admin demanded he do this, or do you think he thought that up himself?

Is it just me, or does that seem like a bit much? Would this colonel hand me a Christian bible, kiss it and hold it to his forehead out of respect? I doubt that.

[dresden8]

A colonel in such a situation is not just an ass kicking warrior, sometimes he has to be an ass kissing diplomat. Hearts and minds and all that.