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Old June 26, 2008, 12:30 PM   #51
UniversalFrost
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I am another RCBS dies and Imperial Wax user and never have had a problem!

Of course I clean and lube my dies after each use and inspect them again before reloading. I am guessing your dies are really dirty and you are applying the lube improperly (guessing too much).

Anyway, happy reloading with what ever lube you decide to use next. I also use the Lee lube and it is wax based if I remember correctly and again, no problems in my Redding, Forester, RCBS, Lyman, Lee or C&H dies.
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Old June 25, 2011, 09:22 AM   #52
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Get Waxed

I know this is an old thread but I just had to add something. I had 500 of the LC 308 cases sold by Midway about 15 years ago. These cases where from a M60 type machine gun because they were/are really blown out. I tried everything I could think of to keep them from being very hard to resize to actually sticking in the die. I tried RCBS spray, Hornady spray, WD40, motor oil, CLP etc. Nothing seemed to work. Finally I tried LEE sizing wax from the little white tube. Not only did it allow me to rezize with less effort and no stuck cases it did a better job in resizing. Cases sized with other lubs would fail the test in a Dillon case gauge, cases sized with the wax will drop in the gauge everytime. for everyday sizing any of the lubs are fine but if you have a special problem like I had then the wax lubs are the only way to go.
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Old June 25, 2011, 11:41 AM   #53
mehavey
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I've used RCBS from `69 to`05 with nary an issue.
Began using Imperial Sizing Wax since, which seems to have the edge.

I put both on in a thin film by fingers, ...dumped the pad many years ago.

If Lee is the new Cat's Meow for the likes of small base work, what is it that makes it different?

Last edited by mehavey; June 25, 2011 at 02:03 PM.
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Old June 25, 2011, 12:22 PM   #54
Marco Califo
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Motor Oil

Motor Oil works great for sizing, even, and especially, MG fired 308.

Think for a second what Motor Oil is: pure lubricant!

No wax, no glycerin, no water, no alcohol.

No stuck cases, no rust, no spray it on and let it dry.

It is cheaper than whatever wombat oil, cocoa butter, and organic bee's wax you may have paid $8 for two ounces of.

It just works.
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Old June 25, 2011, 01:51 PM   #55
engineermike
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Well,
At least two of them labeled their exotic case lube for bench use...
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Old June 25, 2011, 02:34 PM   #56
jepp2
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Quote:
Motor Oil works great for sizing, even, and especially, MG fired 308.
I'm surprised it took this long for motor oil to come up. I switched to synthetic motor oil and love it. I recently sized over 8000 rounds of 223 and had no problems. I squirt some on a paper shop towel and roll 20 cases at a time. I can size 650 per hour on a RCBS Rock Chucker. Very little effort to size them. And a case with no lube will not stick.

I started 40+ years ago using the RCBS non-water soluble. I hated it, but it worked. Then I changed to the Lee water soluble. It was much easier to remove and worked well, but you had to be careful putting it on.

I have used Imperial with great results but it is way to slow for me. I haven't tried any of the spray on lubes and will probably avoid them as it seems lots of folks struggle with stuck cases.
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Old June 25, 2011, 03:50 PM   #57
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I have used RCBS case lube for more years than some here have lived. I have never had a problem of any kind.
I once tried some spray lube to resize rifle cases, but it did not work, and I was glad I had a stuck case removal tool.
After that it has been RCBS case lube for my rifle reloading.
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Old June 25, 2011, 04:07 PM   #58
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Yeah I think the reason that people have such problems with spray lube is that they either don't use enough or get it where it needs to go.

I use Hornady Unique lube and have had excellent result. I have also used Hornady One Shot when in a hurry and it works just as well. The Unique smells good too!
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Old June 25, 2011, 06:04 PM   #59
William T. Watts
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I'm another RCBS case lube user (45+ years), I never heard anyone gripping about a stuck case while using this product. My .02 William
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Old June 25, 2011, 09:29 PM   #60
603Country
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I've used RCBS lube for 30+ years and have never had a stuck case. I dented a few shoulders until I figured out that I was using too much, but that problem disappeared years ago. I partial resize and just put a little lube on the lower part of the case (all the way around). I don't use my fingers since the stuff is greasy, so I just twirl the base end of the case on the homemade pad (folded up piece of towel that is super saturated with lube by now and is ugly and worn). And...I can't remember the last time I cleaned a die. I shoot only bolt guns, so any fired case goes from the action to my hand to my pocket. They never get dirty. Every once in a while I might need to shoot twice, so a case might hit the ground, but it'll get dusted and pocketed. After listening to you guys, I might be a slob. I may have to discuss this with my shrink...
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Old June 26, 2011, 05:11 AM   #61
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Another lubricant with a strong film strength: go to your medicine cabinet and get the bottle of castor oil. You can use it with a lube pad or smear it on with your fingertips.
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Yep. I had my wife pick up another bottle of my case lube from the grocery store. This one's lasted two years and a 4+ thousand .30 cases so far.
I use a cookie sheet lined with aluminum foil, roll about 100 cases around in my exotic, inexpensive (and just 5 or 6 drops of).............. Castor Oil!

May sound stupid, but try it once and you'll never spend another dime on heavily marketed lubes..... and never a stuck case. But...... if you do get a stuck case...

Remove the decapping assembly, screw the die all the way down, lock it and use a brass rod the size of the subject caliber. Insert the rod all the way to the bottom of the case and rap it hard with a full sized hammer.

(I've picked up an un-lubed case more than once.)

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Old June 26, 2011, 07:49 AM   #62
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"Remove the decapping assembly,..."

How do you remove the expander plug from stuck bottle neck cases?
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Old June 26, 2011, 08:37 AM   #63
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I've been using RCBS lube 46rs now I did dent afew shoulders with too much lube. I still use the RCBS lube pad cloth covered and it's pretty saturated vs what there making now.

I'll use Imperial on neck mandrels,expander mandrels case neck that are to be turned been doing that alittle over 30yrs now. Back in them days Wilson was making FL Sizer for the arbor press and if you loaded at the range Imperial was handy to use for sizing. It was pretty common in those BR days gunsmith made a die from the end of the barrel that was cut off and they make bushing so nothing was heat treated so again Imperial was pretty handy.

I have some sizers/bushing for the arbor press that I'll use imperial on but I use that stuff when I load at the range.
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Old June 26, 2011, 10:01 AM   #64
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"How do you remove the expander plug from stuck bottle neck?"

I was going to explain that procedure but the tight nit/opinionated reloading community insisted on drilling/tapping a 1/4" (.250) hole through the primer pocket/flash hole then purchase a factory kit etc., and I insisted a 11/32nd or 3/8 (.375) tap would be better, AND? no one ask "why?" With the older die the primer stem is small in diameter, later, the diameter of the primer punch/sizer ball stem was increased, with the larger stem is worth the effort to first attempt pushing the case out with the stem by jamming two lock nuts together on the stem to use as a driver nut. Practice, practice practice, once the case is dislodged, lower the ram with the case in the shell holder to pull the neck sizer ball through the neck of the case.

To review, before drilling/tapping raise the primer/neck sizer ball stem. Before pulling the rim of the case off when lowering the ram, rotate the shell holder to remove it from the ram and case at the same time.

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Old June 26, 2011, 10:20 AM   #65
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....and I clean my dies with a towel on a dowel.

F. Guffey

and the worst thing I can do to my dies is clean them with brake cleaner, carburetor cleaner or gasoline, it is not easy to improve on the finish of a die, so I clean my dies with a towel on a dowel, again, I purchased a set of dies, $15.00, RCBS 30/06 including a neck sizer die, cleaned with gasoline, That set of dies looked out of place, all the lock nuts were chewed up and secured to the die with determination, if in my possession there is a set of dies with the lock nuts secured to the die, it is not my set of dies because I adjust my dies every time. Most of my dies have knurled surfaces on the lock nuts meaning hand tight should be adequate, now dies come with flat sided jam nuts.

I am not complaining about the chewed up surfaces, if not for those looking for fault a good set of dies would not have been available for $15.00, including a $30.00 neck sizer die.

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Old June 26, 2011, 10:46 AM   #66
Dapperdan
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Been loading for 40 years, never had a problem with stuck cases UNTIL the 223. Spray lube works fine with everything but them. Tore rims off several of them, went back to RCBS and problem disappears. Don't really understand it, but as Walter Cronkite said, "and that's the way it is."
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Old June 26, 2011, 05:40 PM   #67
Kevin Rohrer
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Quote:
'Course, I cleaned my dies after each session, which may have had something to do with it.
How do you clean your dies?
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Old June 26, 2011, 05:44 PM   #68
MADISON
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Wax sizing lube

I had the opposite problem with a .223 die set from HORNADY.
I was getting 3 out of 10 stuck cases, when using conventional
lube products. I sent the die set back, they polished them. When I
started using their "UNIQUE GREASE", the stuck cases quit.
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Old June 26, 2011, 05:46 PM   #69
wncchester
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F. Guffey, surely everyone realizes the need to lift the expander as far as needed for clearance before drilling and tapping for a case puller but I was asking Mr. zfk55 how he removes the decapping assembly in order to use a brass rod to punch the stuck case out, not how you remove stuck cases with a 3/8" tap and bolt.

And, since you made an issue of it, how does that 3/8" tap work out for you when pulling stuck .223 cases?

All of my dies are metal. They have never suffered any harm from the use of gasoline or brake or carburetor cleaners, etc. and that's part of what I've been using to clean them with for decades. My lock nuts haven't dissolved nor have my die theads chipped out; am I just lucky about that, so far?

Ah well, I'm going out to use my feeler gages now....
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Old June 26, 2011, 09:54 PM   #70
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I don't use an expander ball.
I resized 7,000 .223 cases with Redding Imperial die wax, while watching TV, with no problems.
-----------------------------------------
I did have some trouble understanding synthetic motor oil.
I am currently using Chevron Supreme motor oil on my vehicle. It is not a synthetic, but a mineral oil that has been purified ISOSYN® technology, a patented process that purifies and refines by removing impurities and contaminants such as nitrogen, sulphur and wax.
Then additives are put back in; a shearstable viscosity index improver, and contain detergent, dispersant, wear control, antioxidant, corrosion inhibitor, and foam suppressant additives.
So I am getting synthetic performance at mineral oil prices.
----------------------------
What does all that have to do with lubricating the case sizing process?
Very little.
Almost all the motor oil info I read, which goes on for chapters, is talking about temperature.
Sizing happens at room temp.
So synthetic oil's lack of wax, making it work better when cold, is not going to do the handloader any good.
----------------------------------
Moly based lubricants.
I tap holes with Tap Magic.
I have MOLY D.
There is never much difference, until I was tapping 7/8-14 in 2" thick steel, making yet another barrel vise, because I break 1/2-13 hardened bolts.
OK, there is a difference, but don't ask me to size with MOLY D... it is black goop.
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Old June 27, 2011, 11:12 AM   #71
Edward429451
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The only time I ever had a stuck case was a 30/06 and I had set up the die for sizing and had not got the Imperial out yet and stepped out for a drink and when I returned my son had the 2nd case stuck in the die.

Imperial is very good but not the best. I have some blue lube that is homemade by a guy on the CastBoolits forum and better than Imperial. In side by side tests the blue goo took less effort to size 45/70 cases than Imperial. A pretty big difference
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Old June 27, 2011, 09:00 PM   #72
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I often suggest Imperial because it is very good. I agree it may not be the very best but it's very good. I really like Hornady's Unique too.



But perhaps the best case lube I've tried -and I've tried a lot of stuff - is Starbright brand trailer hitch lube (a near clear grease with teflon). It's smooth working, easy to apply with fingers like Imperial and Unique and easy to wipe off fingers and cases afterwards. I got mine from an outboard marine dealer store for my boat trailer, the boat is long gone but I still use the hitch lube for sizing.
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Old June 28, 2011, 10:34 AM   #73
F. Guffey
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"Remove the decapping assembly,..."

How do you remove the expander plug from stuck bottle neck cases?

Had I not know what you were trying to do I would not have said anything. And again out of the two responses you found nothing worthy of consideration, as to the 223, if the primer punch/sizer ball assembly will not drop out the bottom, get a bigger drill, and I am not beyond using a tapered tap that takes 11 turns to complete a thread to remove a case, tap the case, leave the tap in the case and then as the zfk55 suggest drove the case and plug out of the die.

But remember the .223 neck sized down in the die limits the diameter of the driver. A die that can be screwed into the top of a press can be screwed into the press from the bottom (on most presses), that is how I hold cases when drilling out the primer pocket/flash hole for maximum overall length cases when determining the distance from the bolt face to the ogive, again finding the ogive is not something a reloader has to rediscover every day unless they choose to.

Back to 'what you can see', the bolt closes, the light goes out, your reference to additives and cleaners is cosmetic, I focus on the working part of the die and it's surface, not easy to improve on it so I apply the 'leaver policy', I leaver the way I found-er, again I clean my dies with a towel on a dowel, and years ago Rislone assured me if I used their produce they would guarantee me if their produce did not help, it would not hurt 'guaranteed', and I found it difficult to improve on Marvel Mystery oil.

And I do not recommend cleaning with gasoline to my friends or others, the ideal of cleaning with gasoline is a very bad one, naphtha should be used with gloves to protect the skin.


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Old June 28, 2011, 10:57 AM   #74
F. Guffey
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I was going to the range to check a rifle, as you are aware I used once fired cases, first I made an attempt to chamber the fired cases in the 30/06 chamber, surprise, some of the 60 cases chambered, others required thumb pressure, I used a take off barrel same results, I used a chamber gage (home made) same results, so I backed the die off the shell holder .005 thousands then thought about case lube, I went to the bullet casting drawer and choose bullet sizing wax in a generic looking white box, no stuck cases, sizing with the lube was a work out for the press and I applied the wax from residue on my hands, I tried a Pacific ink pad cloth applicator, the resistance to applying pullet the cloth loose, so, I smeared it on my hands then rubbed it on the case lightly, something like Jack O'Connor in about 1954 when he used lanolin, he said he used it on his hands, always had it available and fond it convenient, and it worked, but, lanolin is like a magnet to dirt, lanolin must be removed from the case before storage, the longer it stays on the case the 'tuffer' it is to remove (with out chemicals and I am not a fan of promoting chemical as the answer to every problem).



No stuck cases and I tumbled after sizing, not a good ideal adding slide and glide to the case when firing.



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Old June 28, 2011, 03:24 PM   #75
F. Guffey
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"....available and fond it convenient....,"
Sorry about that, should have been '...found it....'.
And no one ask, on the outside chance there are a very few that are interested. The smoothest, slickest of all the slick-ums available to me? hy-poid, gear lube, differential lube, not a good habit but on occasions I open the plastic bottle that sits on the apron of a lathe, pour a few drops on my hand, and lube before sizing, skipping a few cases while sizing has little effect on the effort, effort? when compared to commercial lubes sizing with gear oil is effortless.
The stuff I have is old, it is between 80W and 90W and pours like a 50W at 90 degree F.
Impact lube on the hands, during the 70s and 80s a lube was developed for ball joints, tie rod ends and steering knuckles, some choose to use it for wheel bearing packing because of the anti impact charismatics, little thought was given to the ideal the anti impact ingredient was lead.

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