The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old April 29, 2008, 01:44 AM   #1
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Your most anticipated time of need?

I know a lot of guys on here practice split second applications of their firearms. They train for that time when they will have to do the fast draw to save their skins. Which is fine. I think we all should practice those skills and many people think that is the situation they are most likely to be confronted with in their lives. A lot of guys also claim long distance practice is not really needed since attacks occur close up.

This brings up the question of what do you think is the most likely situation you will face where you would need your firearm. Will it be a mugging, a home defense, or what?

Like I said, a lot of people believe it will be a mugging or a sudden attack where they will need to quick draw. I am a little different guess. I am pretty cautious about where I am and when I am there so I am not that fearful of being attacked and needing a gun...despite what happened to me a couple months ago.

In this day and age my biggest fear is being in a public place at the wrong time and having to deal with a situation like a mall shooting or campus shooting. A situation where a handgun can make the difference between having to hide behind a garbage can and hope you do not get noticed and being able to defend yourself from a defensive position...or possibly come to the aid of others if you chose to do so. That could also require some long range skills.

How 'bout you?
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 02:03 AM   #2
ghalleen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 466
PBP,

I agree. I feel the biggest threat from a crazy in a public place or an armed robber in a store. I don't know that I'm correct or not, but that is when I feel the most vulnerable.

There are other obvious threats that are probably more likely, but those are the ones I can avoid. For instance: Visiting an ATM at night or taking a stroll through a bad neighborhood at night.
ghalleen is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 02:11 AM   #3
2cooltoolz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 17, 2007
Location: Lake Conroe, Texas
Posts: 1,050
I've been robbed three times at gunpoint. Twice they followed me home, unnoticed by me, to carjack my automobile. One of those times, I truly thought I was going to die, he had a dead drop on me, with a shotgun, his partner had my wife under a semi-auto, I was unarmed and had no good moves open. I told him how easy this was going to be for him and let him have my car. The other time I layed over, floored it and escaped.
The non-automobile time, I stood tall and proud (and a little drunk), was pistol whipped and then gave him my wallet.
I have since replayed these situations hundreds of times; gun in hand, gun in console, gun in IWB. I'm still here, not sure how those scenarios would have played out. Probably bad.
But the odds of me being in a school/mall/church/Luby's shooting situation are about even with winning the Lottery (I do invest $10/week). Otherwise I would be doing that Hi-Cap thing from the other post.
I dress and train for personal protection...these things do happen.
__________________
What me worry
2cooltoolz is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 02:12 AM   #4
Dan31
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: Eastside, WA
Posts: 131
Home defense is the more likely for me. Renton isn't the best place to live but anything can happen anywhere when you least expect it. I don't go tripping thru the tulips at night here and I don't go to the bad areas unless I'm going thru them to get elsewhere. I haven't gotten my ccw yet but I will soon, as my new job might require it.
__________________
I was told once "if you don't have anything good to say don't say anything at all"
Dan31 is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 02:30 AM   #5
Venison_Jerkey32
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 19, 2006
Location: Country of Origin: Texas
Posts: 192
What happened to you a couple months ago?
__________________
Happiness is an empty mag and a pile of hot brass...

I may be young, but it is the people of my generation that will decide the future of America.
Venison_Jerkey32 is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 02:53 AM   #6
ChicagoTex
Junior member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2008
Location: DFW Metroplex
Posts: 1,909
While I dread a home invasion as much as anybody, I acknowledge that it's actually the least likely scenario, and also the scenario where I'm most likely to have the most control of the situation (it's my home turf, after all). So besides the occaisonal drill I don't give it much thought.

I'm rarely in especially crowded places and as such don't share your general apprehension of being swept into a mass shooting - but still train for the possibility that some nut could always arrive to shoot up my local McDonald's while I'm having lunch.

Truth be told I actually anticipate being mugged at gunpoint from my car more than anything else (particularly since that's a fairly common MO in the DFW area) and have trained extensively for pretending to be terrified and discombobulated reaching for my wallet while actually reaching for my CCW and getting a shot or two off before the BG realizes somethings amiss. What's more, I think my stature and body language would intimidate all but the most brave (or stupid) attacker, but neither are plainly visible while sitting in my car.
That said, I also do train for face to face muggings and combining basic martial arts (deflecting a weapon, getting the attacker off balance, etc) with the draw of my CCW - I'm contemplating getting an Emerson Combat Kerambit to enhance my options in this regard.

Something else I train for that I don't think a lot of people do is a scenario where for some reason I'm in a shootout with a bad guy in a parking lot and the range may be increasing (running from one car to the next, either myself or the bg) - this is why I insist that I be able to deliver consistently accurate fire with anything I carry out to a MINIMUM of 25 yards - obviously more is better - from awkward positions behind cover (most likely, automobiles).

As an aside, that raises an interesting question - who's legally liable for the damage to vehicles from me and the bg shooting at each other? Are we each responsible for our own bullets, or is the initial criminal actor responsible for all damages caused as a byproduct of his criminal act? I realize were this circumstance to come up that would be the least of my worries, but I'm still curious.
ChicagoTex is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 07:33 AM   #7
xrocket
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2007
Posts: 549
I prepare and practice both strong hand and off hand at multiple ranges of 3/7/15 yards with singles, doubles and 2+1 in the anticipation that I could be attacked anywhere, anytime for any reason. I feel strongly that a full-time positive mind set based on a determined and committed consciousness is my best defense.

As I and my wife get older I believe the odds of something happening to one of us goes up especially in a car or shopping transition to or from either.

For me I commit to three personal rules: CAP

Always Carry

Always Aware

Always practice


Good luck to all if "That" time comes.



.
__________________
If you don't stand for something you'll fall for anything. My stand begins with "WE THE PEOPLE" ...
xrocket is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 08:23 AM   #8
Moe Howard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 6, 2008
Location: North Texas
Posts: 690
I practice gun presentation from every carry mode I use or may every use. Strong side hip, shoulder, ankle, sissy pack, etc. and even practice with a flashlight in one hand and gun in the other, I have some training pistols is use for this. I am a big guy and keep my head up and am always aware of my surroundings and stay away from high crime areas as much as possible, so I don't worry about mugging as much as a mass shooting in a crowded place. I hate crowds so I tend not to spend much time is malls, amusement parks, sporting events, etc. However my church holds 1500 people in the auditorium and it is theater like seating. I guess my biggest fear is a mass shooting happening there since it is likely hundreds of people will likely be running in every direction so trying to shoot a mass shooter is almost out of the question do to the innocent bystander factor.
Moe Howard is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 08:57 AM   #9
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Being in a public school, and something happening, either at a sporting event with a crazy parent, or a mob mentality.
Crazy student shooting, or gang bangers.
Getting jumped in a public bathroom again, but, I'm real careful on that one, and pepper spray is my constant friend.

Not having a weapon, on a school, or, having one, and ending
up in jail.

Really time to find a new job.
Socrates is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:07 AM   #10
Shadi Khalil
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 23, 2006
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 4,987
I practice mainly drawing from my concealment holster and reloading, all dry as my range doesnt allow that sort of thing. As far as the ranges at which I practice at with live fire? I try and most of my prctice between 3 and 10 yards. At the end of my range sessions I like to put the target back about 15 yards and see what I can do. I'll admit, its not really that pretty but I'm not really using a target gun either...
Shadi Khalil is online now  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:15 AM   #11
Teuthis
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 9, 2008
Location: Southern Arizona
Posts: 537
I think that if one ends up in a close-quarters, quick draw gunfight situation, one is most likely going to die anyway. Having quick draw skills can only help, but at close range everyone is likely to get lead.

As mentioned, the best way to make your ability to carry a weapon count, is to pay very close attention to your surroundings all the time. Stay in condition yellow when in public. Then, if danger appears, you have likely spotted it, and can find cover before any shooting starts; or get away.

I would consider the most likely scenario for self defense as a robbery attempt. If one did encounter a random shooter, or insane, ex-boyfriend after a woman, other skills than quick draw would have to be used. You would likely have to make an approach upon the gunman, and engage at relatively close range an opponent who might have you out-gunned. The willingness to step into a firefight might be more than many people could do. Some Military, and LEO's would have combat training and possibly experience; but the armed citizen may do better just to protect and defend those around him and help them get out of harm's way.
Teuthis is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:43 AM   #12
shortwave
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 17, 2007
Location: SOUTHEAST, OHIO
Posts: 5,936
i have two instances where i feel easily accesible by b/g. 1`st in car, usually no fast escape route. your sitting, seat belted in an inclosed area. 2`nd in a business that posts "no-gun" sign. refuse to get caught with shorts down so i don`t go there. banks in Ohio are off limits to guns. you might have guessed that the robbery/assault rate in this state in a bank parking lot on payday Friday is off the hook.
shortwave is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:43 AM   #13
Glenn E. Meyer
Staff
 
Join Date: November 17, 2000
Posts: 15,852
Zombies!

Public place nut or targeted robbery - such as at the gas pump.

At work, can't carry - so behind the garbage gun or fleeing in terror.

At home, nice neighborhood - less likely but guns available.
__________________
NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc.
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...05_Feature.htm
Being an Academic Shooter
http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...11_Feature.htm
Being an Active Shooter
Glenn E. Meyer is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:44 AM   #14
ElectricHellfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 22, 2008
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
Posts: 2,271
Im outside of DFW area but there have been a lot of home invasions in the Dallas area so I have been thinking more and more about my defenses against that sort of attack.

My wife and I eat out a lot (2x/week) so I often think about a robbery of some sort in that situation and try to place myself as defensible as possible Ie corner booth etc.
__________________
Texas, the only State to Have Ever Kicked Another Country's Butt
ElectricHellfire is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 10:44 AM   #15
parrothead2581
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 4, 2005
Posts: 1,268
HD, parking lots & "Stop and Robs".

I rarely (count, once or twice/year, at the most) go to any indoor malls, so not really concerned there.

No longer on a school campus, so not there.
__________________
But I am like a green olive tree in the house of God: I trust in the mercy of God for ever and ever. Psalm 52:8
parrothead2581 is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 10:58 AM   #16
cschwanz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 20, 2008
Location: IN
Posts: 321
I'm thinking the most likely place where i may need my CCW is either at the mall (who knows what people are likely to do these days) or at the local outdoor park areas where the city holds multiple festivities including our city festival, and others like it(Germanfest, Ribfest, etc). I like going to those, but always try to leave before the sun goes down, b/c they can get a lil shady after dark. Home invasions are always on my list, but its where i feel most confident. i know my house better than a stranger
__________________
SA XD .45 Compact -- 5" Colt XSE -- Glock 21SF
Savage Mark-II .22LR
Member:NRA, DU, PF
Ignorance can be fixed....its called education. Stupid will get you killed!
cschwanz is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 01:33 PM   #17
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2007
Location: West Upstate NY
Posts: 2,303
1. Travel
2. Late night gas station visits
3. ATM's
4. Riding the El in Philly
5. Church -- If not from psychos then terrorists wanting to start up here what they do elsewhere in the world. Somehow I'm surprised they haven't tried attacking churches here already, particularly in non right to carry states. I'd like to see their little jihad crap get a 180 grain veto a few times.
Yellowfin is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 01:43 PM   #18
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
1. Late night ATM.
2. Late night gas station.
3. Late night Diner.
4. Travel - includes road rage incidents, breakdowns in secluded areas, and carjacking (note: guy would have to be desperate to carjack a 12yo 4x4, but one never knows).

To preempt those who would say to avoid late night activities, please remember that some people have work hours that require night time travel. This applies both to my regular job, and to travel to and from my reserve unit.

Cheers,

M
MLeake is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 03:24 PM   #19
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2007
Location: West Upstate NY
Posts: 2,303
And I forgot to add 6. Hunting. Poachers, meth producers, and PETA wackos are dangers that appear to be more and more prevalent every year and something a little faster handling than my bow or rifle is needed so I'm always carrying my .40 with me.
Yellowfin is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 07:53 PM   #20
clayking
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 29, 2006
Location: Florida
Posts: 796
When I least expect it. Car jacking, parking lot, mugging or house break-in, who knows. I'm not too worried about the mall, restaurant, church, or movie theater, though I carry in them all. A simple wrong move on the road could set off some nuts road rage behind the wheel of the offended car......it's happened here twice that I know, guns blazing. I'm most on guard in parking lots at night, especailly at the mall, where the mall rules says no carry.....yea, right.

Never needed to draw and hopefully never will, but always carry just in case. What's the saying?, "carry 24/7 or guess right"........................ck
__________________
Never argue with an idiot, they will just drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
clayking is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:07 PM   #21
TripIII
Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2008
Posts: 70
Agree...when I least expect it. So dress appropriately.
TripIII is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:17 PM   #22
ajaxinacan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 15, 2000
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 436
1. Bad neighborhood near the airport where I work, any time of day.
2. Bad neighborhood near the small rural airports in my state, especially at night.
3. Stop-and-robs, any time of day.
4. Fast food shops, any time of day.
5. Malls.
6. Travelling.

All people have "what-if" scenarios in their head. Not always about self defense, sometimes about car accidents or in my business, airplane crashes. One thing they all have in common: They take place MUCH TOO SLOWLY. Real emergencies take place at lightning speed. I investigated a crash last year where the pilot went from waving and smiling to completely dead in three seconds. THREE SECONDS. All pilots imagine stalling the aircraft at 8000 feet. Trouble is, the ones that kill happen at 300 feet, and nobody is thinking about those (except the pilots who want to stay alive).

When you imagine defending your life, imagine acting fast. I recently got some sage advice from a firearms instructor who said, "a mediorcre plan right now is better than a perfect plan three seconds from now".

JMHO
__________________
When the going gets tough, sprinters quit.
ajaxinacan is offline  
Old April 29, 2008, 09:52 PM   #23
Dwight55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 18, 2004
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 2,566
Due to the nature of attacks in the central Ohio area being about as varied as possible, . . . I train for and expect almost anything to happen any time.

There are areas where I just simply am not welcome, am suspect, and/or are a target. I avoid them as much as I can, . . . but there are times I cannot.

I guess my biggest fear is just winding up in the wrong place at the wrong time: Luby's in Texas, McDonalds in San Ysidro, or a corner hijacking are the ones that come to mind.

Guess a feller just needs to keep prayed up and all magazines full.

May God bless,
Dwight
__________________
www.dwightsgunleather.com
If you can breathe, . . . thank God!
If you can read, . . . thank a teacher!
If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!
Dwight55 is offline  
Old May 1, 2008, 11:47 PM   #24
Triple8
Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 35
You never know how, just a question of when. Any time you are outnumbered in a parking lot these days you need to stay alert. That's the most likely scenario for me, punks out for kicks...
__________________
Safety takes a few seconds. Accidents can last a lifetime.
Fondle with care
Triple8 is offline  
Old May 2, 2008, 12:58 AM   #25
chris in va
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 26, 2004
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 12,650
I guess my greatest concern (vs fear) is...of the unknown and being caught unawares. I try to strike a balance between enjoying my life on this planet (condition white) and making sure my bases are covered.

Anything can happen, any time. And nothing can happen too. We may go our whole life not needing this 2.5# piece of steel on our hips.
chris in va is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13285 seconds with 7 queries