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Old April 26, 2008, 02:06 PM   #1
jdnorris
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Not impressed with North American Arms "No Holster In the Box" policy

I am not impressed with North American Arms policy to eliminate the included holster from new mini revolver boxes. As most know, the minis included a very functional holster as part of the original purchase up until a while back. This last weekend I bought a 3rd mini (dad visited from out of town and had to have my other 22mag over the holidays) and when I got home I was amazed that there was no holster in the new "hard" case. I know, I should have paid more attention and checked it all before leaving the store.

My opinion of North American Arms has gone from 1st to near worst for nickel-and-dimeing (to the tune of about $27-$37 with shipping) for something that historically has been included. To make matters even more distasteful, Georgia law requires a handgun be carried in a holster. My local dealers do not carry small enough aftermarkets or NAA stock holsters .... so I have a new "carry" gun that for at least a while I cannot carry. Bad business and I won't forget it.

FYI ..... I emailed NAA's owner Sandy Chisholm and he replied "Apparently, we can't please everybody, for which we're sorry."

Anyone else have any experiences with North American Arms / opinions good or bad?

David
Lawrenceville, GA
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Old April 26, 2008, 02:50 PM   #2
rugersp101
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No experience with them , but his reply was very unprofessional and flippant. What a bunch of arrogance from a company who is being pointed out for shortchanging repeat customers! I would never buy from them again.
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Old April 26, 2008, 03:05 PM   #3
88cupfan
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Business people have to make hard decisions to keep their companies profitable. If you dont like it, take the gun back and buy something else. Or call the dude back and tell him that if he doesnt send you a free holster for your 3rd purchase that you will return the gun. With all variety of guns available today, it doesnt seem to me that it would be hard to find something else that you would like. Shoot, you could even find you a real gun like a S&W.

Its so obvious to people who have actually owned their own business to tell the people who havent because they have no clue that a business has to make a profit in order to be viable. People on this forum complain all the time about prices of firearms going up but fail to realize that the costs to make them, distribute them and market them has gone up as well. In about 2 years this country's currency will hit hyperinflation and collaps. I told people 4 years ago to buy gold and they laughed at me. Its gone up 300% since then.
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Old April 26, 2008, 03:32 PM   #4
WINSTON THE WOLF
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I agree with 88cupfan, Tell the owner Sandy Chisholm your sorry to , That North American Arms has lost a long time customer. Then see what he sayes

88cupfan, I heard an economist say to invest in Gold ,Silver and copper jacketed lead
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Old April 26, 2008, 04:38 PM   #5
88cupfan
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Thats right! you'll need some gold, silver, lead, a fire place, a fishin hole and lots of canned food. This is all just before the cost of a loaf of bread doubles every day for a month. You just cant keep printing money hand over fist and get away with it forever. And given the fact that the USA has lost so many productive assets (manufacturing leaving the USA), the only thing the Fed can do to keep our spoiled consumer driven economy from collapsing tomorrow, is to PRINT MORE MONEY! There is noone to bail out the Fed and now they have taken on all the risk. Hold on to your Hats!
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Old April 26, 2008, 05:25 PM   #6
DPris
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I don't recall a holster being included with either of the two NAA .22s I own.
When did they do that, and when did they stop doing it?
I've also borrowed several of their guns over the years, they were shipped with the normal package that'd be with them for retail sale, and I don't recall holsters coming with those, either.
Denis
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:18 PM   #7
jdnorris
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88 ...... I take a re-stocking hit if I take it back, so it's not really a zero loss situation. I too own a business, and repeat customers usually get my best treatment and deals. I paid retail for this gun (about 30% more than the previous two) and got less. Now I get to add about 25% more to the purchase to get it up to snuff.

Winston ..... he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy that cares.

Denis ...... I'm not sure when it stopped. Both the 22 mag 1&5/8 and 22 mag 1&1/8 that I bought previously came in a cardboard box. They now come in a thin plastic "lockable" (I use lockable lightly) box with a bunch of the usual paperwork / foam.

I know one thing for sure ..... I'm done with North American Arms.

PS ...... on the subject of Ben Bernanke's printing press addiction ..... God help us all.

David
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:20 PM   #8
CANIS
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They are a good company. In case you have not noticed, raw material costs continue to increase. The price of a mini revolver has stayed fairly level over the past many years. Little "extras" cost the company plenty.

They make a quality gun. They have good service. Sandy is right, you can't satisfy everybody.
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:30 PM   #9
jdnorris
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CANIS,

Upon following a link to the owners homepage I now see that he's really hurting for pennies .............

http://sandychisholm.com/

He lists his:

Country Club
Mexico Vacation Home
Ritz Carlton -St. Thomas
Private Schools

I now see the error of my ways and apologize for questioning his good natured attempt at keeping his struggling business solvent. Those extras might have cost him a perk, maybe 2 ........ a travesty. The cheapness definitely has cost him a customer.

David

And CANIS, my sarcasm is directed at the owner, not you
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:46 PM   #10
Bill DeShivs
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So, Mr. Chisholm simply has too much? Don't you wish you owned NAA?
I'll bet you would give everyone free guns!
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Old April 26, 2008, 07:18 PM   #11
jdnorris
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You got me. I'd buy the company and give them all to you.
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Old April 26, 2008, 07:59 PM   #12
88cupfan
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My experience in life has taught me not to take anything for granted.Especially when putting my cash down for something. I never buy anything without a thorough inspection. My son just picked up a tux for prom, brought it home and discovered a spot of paint the size of a dime on the pants. His immediate words after he showed me were, "I know dad. I should have inspected it before I took it from the store."

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who learn by mistakes and those who learn by others mistakes.

In consolation just let me say that this world today is far more complicated than God ever intended it to be. Hold fast! The good days are still ahead for those who place there trust in Him.
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Old April 26, 2008, 08:07 PM   #13
rantingredneck
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Quote:
Both the 22 mag 1&5/8 and 22 mag 1&1/8 that I bought previously came in a cardboard box. They now come in a thin plastic "lockable" (I use lockable lightly) box with a bunch of the usual paperwork / foam.
I expect that is the root of his "you can't please everyone" comment. Before I'm sure he got questions as to why other companies shipped their guns in hardside plastic cases and his came in cardboard boxes.

My first NAA Guardian came with the cardboard box and a desantis gunrug holster.

The second one I bought came in the hardside foam padded case.

Really I could care less either way.
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Old April 26, 2008, 08:46 PM   #14
Magnum Wheel Man
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hmmm... mine never came with a holster... course... it came in a fancier wood box, & with a couple of chips, & a little more than the normal paperwork ( a deck of cards )

mines a "snake eyes" edition, I shoot it, carry it for a poker good luck charm, & I wouldn't trade it for anything even close
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Old April 26, 2008, 11:27 PM   #15
Bill Siegle
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Only NAA I ever got with a holster was one of their little 32 autos that had the little belt pouch holster with it. Never heard of em including holsters before that and I have owned several. I recently bought a Pug and no holster was included. Smith and Ruger don't include them so I don't expect it from others unless it is a promotion of some sort. As to NAA being cheapskates, I dought that. If you aren't already aware, steel of all types has risen drastically and will be almost doubling across the board very soon. Anyone manufacturing almost anything is gonna feel it and I don't think many companies will simply absorb the costs. Things are gonna get tight all over I suspect the smart ones are making changes right now to help their companies stay viable in a more expensive world. I for one always check everything before the final buying of a gun. Been burnt before and learned from it.
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Old April 27, 2008, 12:28 AM   #16
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I sewed a pocket holster for my Bond Arms Derringer out of $.50 worth of fabric and some thread I had left over from repairing my winter coat. Not pretty, but keeps the gun in the correct position. I could probably make one for an NAA if I can remember where I put the silly thing. (Damm thing is so small. No it isn't loaded. It's somewhere in my room.)
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Old April 27, 2008, 07:38 AM   #17
SilentHitz
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I'm not familiar with what years they offered holsters for their Mini-revolvers, because I bought one used from a friend about 10 years ago. While I was in the hospital, my brother borrowed it because his wife wanted a small purse gun.

Anyways, the gun broke (pawl I think) and he sent the gun back for repairs. It was returned with only 3 original parts, frame barrel and cylinder...all other parts had been replaced. He brought the invoice to show me in the hospital, and I admit I was shocked!

Total cost: was $0.00 So my experience was much different than most here. That was about 5 years ago, so from what most here are saying, their customer service must have gone downhill pretty bad. Sad to hear they have stopped standing behind their products as they once did.
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Old April 27, 2008, 08:26 AM   #18
lamarr
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2 cents

"Apparently, we can't please everybody, for which we're sorry."

I'll bet the folks complaining about the holster are the same ones who hated the cardboard boxes. So you wanted the company to pay for a hard case and holster? :barf:

Sandy has realized the retail truism: "Theres one in every crowd."
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Old April 27, 2008, 12:23 PM   #19
DPris
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I'm having a hard time understanding how this lack of holster thing is either a deal-killer or any kind of indicator that the company "has stopped standing behind their products".

JD,
Over several years, I've borrowed probably ten of their guns for testing. Each time, as far as I know, each gun shipped in the normal packaging & with the normal inclusions that would have gone out to a dealer.
I can recall none that came with a holster included. When I wanted to use a holster for photos, I asked for one separately. I'm not sure "most know" that at some point NAA routinely included them.
While I can understand the aggravation involved in Georgia requiring one, it seems to me that if you think an NAA has enough intrinsic value to meet your defensive needs, then you're hurting yourself far more than you're hurting NAA in not buying another product from them solely because they didn't give you a free $5 piece of leather with it.
You may not like Chisholm's response, but he might not have liked your email.

Silent,
As far as not standing behind their products goes, if you were to tell me they'd refused to service your gun, then I think you'd have grounds to say that. Not including a holster? No grounds.

Denis
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Old April 27, 2008, 01:56 PM   #20
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Nothing North American Arms makes impresses me............hpg
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:04 PM   #21
SilentHitz
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Quote:
Silent,
As far as not standing behind their products goes, if you were to tell me they'd refused to service your gun, then I think you'd have grounds to say that. Not including a holster? No grounds.
Got my post all wrong bro'. I could care less about the holster. My point was that I received great service from them. How many folks can say they sent in a used revolver for repair, and got almost ALL the parts replaced for free?

Hell, with service like that, I'm not so cheap I won't go buy my own holster.
My comment about customer service going down was based on others saying they were getting little or no response from them. I don't agree, as I haven't had dealings with them recently, and don't know if service has changed.

My experience with NAA has been nothing but good.
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:16 PM   #22
DPris
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Silent,
If I misunderstood your post, I apologise. Just looked like you were saying their customer service decline & "not standing behind their products" was based solely on the holster issue.
I didn't see any other comments relative to standing behind their products. Yours very much indicated they do.
JD's just indicated he & the company president disagreed over a holster being included or not.

Denis
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:29 PM   #23
SilentHitz
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No problem Denis, probably just wasn't clear enough on my 1st post. I have a 10 year old .22 magnum mini that looks ( and works) like a new pistol, and all it cost me was the price of shipping it to them! Made me a happy camper.
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Old April 27, 2008, 04:29 PM   #24
sawrecker
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I took my mini apart to see how it worked and well, it didn't work after that, so I called them, no problem they said, I sent it back to them, UPS, had it back in 2 weeks, and it was smoother than ever, like they actually spent some quality time on it.
I had the holster,when I bought my first one, like in 1986, i paid 125 for it, you can buy them now for 175, so if they only raised the price 50 buck in the last 22 years, and saved money by not putting in the suede holster that soaked up sweat, I think they are doing a good job. I cut the top off a wore out pair of slip on wolverine's boots folded it close to the gun punched holes in it and spiderwire sewed it together, works great.
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Old April 27, 2008, 07:49 PM   #25
Joe the Redneck
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Mine did not come with a holster. It came with a zippered gun run.

JTR
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