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Old April 26, 2008, 01:12 PM   #1
deleterman
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.38 target loads

Hi back again, i have made so many note' s that i have lost track,i want a mild target load for my S&W 686 w/ 83/8" .357 mag. i'm using unique powder . 148grswc hard cast lead. nothing to lead up my gun. ok how does this sound -38 sp cases 3.3grs of unique.and in .357 mag cases 4.5 grs of unique.wsp primers.i'm ready to load um up. thanks. deleterman.
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Old April 26, 2008, 01:26 PM   #2
WIL TERRY
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It Is Doeable But It Is Really The Wrong Propellent,

For what you're asking.
If you want to do that why do you not do it right ??
Just because you have UNIQUE on hand is no excuse.
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Old April 26, 2008, 01:34 PM   #3
deleterman
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just checking

OK what should i use? i'm all ears.

Last edited by deleterman; April 26, 2008 at 01:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old April 26, 2008, 04:15 PM   #4
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I've gotten good results with W231/HP-38.

The "accepted" accuracy load for .38 Spl 148 gr LWC is 2.7 gr of Bullseye.
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Old April 26, 2008, 04:39 PM   #5
dipper
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You should get a good manual and do some reading or surf about the net and gather info.
I know it is just easier to post here and get answers but really, you NEED a manual and you need to read it.
People here should not give you ANY charge amounts---powder and bullet yes --but not weight of charges.

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Old April 26, 2008, 04:40 PM   #6
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Quote:
For what you're asking.
If you want to do that why do you not do it right ??
Just because you have UNIQUE on hand is no excuse.


It's a great excuse to use it. The only reason not to is if your powder measure can't throw consistent charges that small of flake powders. And you won't know that until you try it.
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Old April 26, 2008, 05:45 PM   #7
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I personally prefer 3.0gr of Bullseye. It just feels better.

After I use up the Bullseye I'm going to try some American Select and some Clays. I know they will be cleaner burning.
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:00 PM   #8
deleterman
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checking loads

Thanks all; i was using bullseye powder but i thought that i would try unique and see if that was better in my gun.that's all.. i do have a few loading manuals but i just thought that some one out there had some experience with a like load.I know that alot of experience hand loader use this site and are willing to share their hard earned knowledge with others just comming along in the hand loading sport. thanks for your ear. deleterman.
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:03 PM   #9
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I use Unique behind 148 gr LWC's all the time. In a .38 Spl case 4.8 grains has been an accurate load. In a .357 case I go to 5.5 grains.

Unique seems to get a bad rap because it has a reputation as being a dirty powder. As a black powder revolver shooter, I think Unique is as clean as Kleenex.
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Old April 26, 2008, 06:52 PM   #10
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DMZX,
What you list as a load using Unique is in line with my manuals, what the OP listed is NOT.
Although he states He has a couple of manuals, I wonder why he asked about a load that was so far off??
A quick glance at a manual would have told him that.
Also, the manual lists min and max loads for a reason and they usually explain in the text under reloading techniques.
Also, for what it's worth, some guys on another site I visit got in some hot water listing powder charges---some idiot did something wrong--now the site will not list ANY load data.

I still say, buy a manual and...oh, that's right,you HAVE one...um right...then read it and stick to listed loads.

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Old April 26, 2008, 07:06 PM   #11
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Quote:
What you list as a load using Unique is in line with my manuals, what the OP listed is NOT.
Although he states He has a couple of manuals, I wonder why he asked about a load that was so far off??
A quick glance at a manual would have told him that.
I don't know what reloading manual you have, but 3.2 grains of Unique is what Alliant recomends for a target load in a .38 Special with 148 grain wadcutters, and 3.3 grains is a max load. The 4.8 that DMXZ posted would be a dangerous load in a .38 Special, but OK for a .357 Magnum.
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Old April 26, 2008, 07:08 PM   #12
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I can not agree with you more dipper. I always look at at least three manuals when developing a load with a bullet/powder combo I have not used before. And then I tend to go with the more conservative listings.

Addtionally, I keep copious notes on my loads and how they performed at the range in different guns.

Deleterman, this is a hint on some good procedural habits I have gotten in to. I have formed a lot of others as well.


Quote:
The 4.8 that DMXZ posted would be a dangerous load in a .38 Special, but OK for a .357 Magnum.
Speer #13 list 4.5 -5.1 grain of Unique for a 148 gr LWC in .38 Spl. 4.8gr is midrange.
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Old April 26, 2008, 07:15 PM   #13
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According to QuickLoad, a 148 grain DEWC seated flush in a .38 case will give you over 30000 psi chamber pressure with 4.8 grains of Unique. 5.1 grains is a compressed charge just under 35000 psi.
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Old April 26, 2008, 07:41 PM   #14
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38 loads

thanks all; some very good thoughts, looking it my lymans reloading manual #44 &#46 i see no listings for 148lwc.for .357. and sameo for the .38 sp. bullseye or unique powder. any thoughts on this? deleterman.
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Old April 26, 2008, 08:05 PM   #15
dipper
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,

What you list as a load using Unique is in line with my manuals, what the OP listed is NOT.
Although he states He has a couple of manuals, I wonder why he asked about a load that was so far off??
A quick glance at a manual would have told him that.

zxcvbob said--
I don't know what reloading manual you have, but 3.2 grains of Unique is what Alliant recomends for a target load in a .38 Special with 148 grain wadcutters, and 3.3 grains is a max load. The 4.8 that DMXZ posted would be a dangerous load in a .38 Special, but OK for a .357 Magnum

Check what KIND of wadcutters that is Bob, Bevel Base or Hollow Base???? and notice that the OP said 148 GR. SWC in his original post ----there is a difference---at least in MY speer manuals.
Like I said, the load DMZX listed IS in line with MY manuals for 148 GRAIN Bevel Base Wad Cutter.
Also, the load listed by DMXZ, is listed as Max for 158 grain lead semi wad cutters in my manuals for 38 spl.

Dipper

Last edited by dipper; April 26, 2008 at 08:13 PM. Reason: correction
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Old April 26, 2008, 08:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Check what KIND of wadcutters that is Bob, Bevel Base or Hollow Base????
I thought that too when I first started reloading wadcutters, then I figured it out: The type of base doesn't make any difference, 148 grains of lead has the same shape no matter what shape it is, so when seated to the same overall length the remaining case volume will be the same -- although you shouldn't load hollow-base bullets to high pressures or you'll blow out the skirts and accuracy will be terrible. The only thing that matters with WC's is the weight and the overall length.

Quote:
and notice that the OP said 148 GR. SWC in his original post ----there is a difference---at least in MY speer manuals.
Now THAT makes a big difference and I missed it. Sorry about that. OP was using Alliant's published data for 148 WC's in his original post. If he's really using SWC bullets (and I've never heard of them available in 148 grains, but there's a lot that I've never heard of) they will not be loaded flush, and the 4 - 5-ish grains would probably be about right.

Quote:
Like I said, the load DMZX listed IS in line with MY manuals for 148 GRAIN Bevel Base Wad Cutter.
I really doubt that for .38 Special. It might be for .357 Magnum full-power loads.

At this point we need "deleterman" to clarify exactly what bullet (148 or 158, WC or SWC) he's using and what length he's seating them at.
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Old April 26, 2008, 08:45 PM   #17
dipper
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Like I said, the load DMZX listed IS in line with MY manuals for 148 GRAIN Bevel Base Wad Cutter.
I really doubt that for .38 Special. It might be for .357 Magnum full-power loads

Hey BOB,
PAGE 510---SPEER RELOADING MANUAL NUMBER 12---it's right there--I can read--you can doubt it all you want---your wrong --just admit it---it doesn't hurt--I was wrong once too and I'm still here!!!
My other manuals list the same load--makes me wonder what you're looking at!!

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Old April 26, 2008, 08:51 PM   #18
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deleterman, you will find that Unique will be quite dirty until you get your pressure up; it doesn't burn cleanly at all unless it's close to maximum. Try some SR4756 instead; you can load it down for 38s and perk 'em right up for 357, and it burns a LOT cleaner than the "U" word. The burning rate is close to Unique, and it is very predictable when making increases in your charges. I've been using it for 35+ years, and have gone through several kegs.
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Old April 26, 2008, 09:01 PM   #19
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Quote:
PAGE 510---SPEER RELOADING MANUAL NUMBER 12---it's right there--I can read--you can doubt it all you want---your wrong --just admit it---it doesn't hurt--I was wrong once too and I'm still here!!!
I don't have a Speer manual. But if that data is in there, it's a misprint and it's dangerous. (BTW I said I was wrong about the WC vs. SWC and I said I was sorry.) I'm not going to back down on 4+ grains of Unique being dangerous in a .38 Special with a 148 grain wadcutter -- unless they have it just barely seated in the case and most of the bullet hanging out. What does your Speer manual say the OAL is?

I do load high-pressure wadcutters in .357 Magnum. 5.7 grains of Bullseye. It really makes people jump at the range if they see you loading wadcutters and assume they are wimpy .38 target loads, then BANG!!
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Old April 26, 2008, 09:57 PM   #20
deleterman
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38 loads

zxcvbob;I'm using Western Navada hard cast 148gr wc. bevel base same on both ends-.0570" over all,overall in spl cases 1.230" and in the mag case 1.40" does that help? thanks for all your help.deleterman.
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Old April 26, 2008, 10:33 PM   #21
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Quote:
I'm using Western Navada hard cast 148gr wc. bevel base same on both ends-.0570" over all,overall in spl cases 1.230" and in the mag case 1.40" does that help? thanks for all your help.
For that OAL, 3.3 of Unique would be a good target load in the .38, and 4.0 is a maximum.

In the .357, you can load anywhere from 3.5 to 7.0 grains, but it's gonna be dirty at the low end.
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Old April 26, 2008, 11:08 PM   #22
deleterman
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38 loads

Thanks for your responce; so it looks like i'm in the ballpark! i will look in my powder stach and see if i have any SR4756 powder. that looks like that is the best for my use. could be i will see if i get any thoughts on that? there is a lot of guys out there with some good ideas on what brand of powder to use .deleterman.
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Old April 27, 2008, 01:05 PM   #23
deleterman
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38 loads

Thanks all; i liked all the info i got at this site. someone said something about unique powder in lesser grs to be unreliable.and i found that to be very true.i had better luck with bullseye powder.at least in my dillon press.so i think i will go back to bullseye powder for my light loads in .38 spl&.357mag loads.it looks like it will be easer to cotrol the powder wht at lighter loads with bullseye.but some one said that RS4756 is a good powder to use so untill i can get some i will use up what bullseye i have left. and just pray for the best..thanks all. deleterman.
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:16 PM   #24
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I have loaded 148 LWC with bullseye and W-231 with very good results in .38spl and .357 mag. with Light target loads in .357 mag. try magnum primers as well as standard and see which gives less velocity variation.
My powder throw dos not do well with small charges of large flake powders such as Unique.
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Old April 27, 2008, 03:32 PM   #25
deleterman
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38 loads

Thanks jibjab; i will go back to using bullseye powder i had good luck in the past but you know how it is never satisfide always looking for sonething better to load...thanks again. deleterman.
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