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Old April 8, 2008, 02:47 AM   #1
Revelation76
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Any Stun Baton Experts Out There?

I'm looking for a good stun baton that is well made and powerful. I'd like to know if anyone has had any personal experience with owning and using any of the brands out today?
I've been looking at the Streetwise Expandable Stun Baton 700K because of it's size and extension abilities to keep some distance from an attacker. I'd prefer something shorter than the 12 inch extendable for daily carry, but this type might be good for my sister, as a purse carried weapon. I only want a strong quality weapon though, that can be depended on in the "less lethal" category.

I'm well aware of Tasers of course, but I want to avoid paying all of the money that they want for their product. They charge 300-350.00 for the unit, and it costs 25.00 every time you shoot a Taser C2. That makes it very pricey to practice with, and I would want to practice. They also have you pay a 10 dollar activation fee that includes a background check.

I'm on a budget, like most people, but I would pay 100.00 or a little more for a good quality stun baton that fits my needs. They seem to all be priced well under 100.00. Many websites have greatly varying prices on the same units.

Thanks in advance for any recommendations and/or advice!
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Old April 8, 2008, 08:04 AM   #2
.22lr
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huh?

You want a weapon with a reach of 21" (r1)?

That's about as good as a knife at those ranges.

Forgive my curtness, I have to scurry off to the office, but why entertain what seems like a gimmick?

Stun batons may seem cool to some, but unarmed assailants can do massive damage at 21", heck 21' and you could be in deep trouble. (Tuller Drill (r2a, r2b))

That, and will you really carry a device that's a foot long when collapsed?

(note:
r1) The dimensions I am referencing are based on the OP's mention of the "Streetwise Expandable Stun Baton 700K" whose stats I read from http://sepharus-store.stores.yahoo.net/ezsdsweb700.html

r2a) Tuller Drill - David Kenik "Armed response" (ASD Publishing 2004) 29-30

r2b)also referenced in "In The Gravest Extreme" (Ayoob 1980) by Massad Ayoob, however I couldn't find the specific citation, (not enough time) though the idea is mentioned on pages 16-17 though not referred to by name as the "Tuller Drill".
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Old April 8, 2008, 09:22 AM   #3
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Old April 8, 2008, 04:57 PM   #4
Revelation76
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Stun Devices Can Be Useful. They are yet another tool

Anyone out there with some good advice on quality units?

I'm not interested in debating the merits of different weapons. If you don't care for these devices, please don't bother commenting. Not every encounter is life or death, as a matter of fact, most are not.

I'm aware of all my options, and would like to carry what the police in my city carry, but slightly different variations. A good flashlight, pepper spray, a stun device, and a .357 Mag.
Maybe I'll break down and buy a pricey Taser C2 someday.
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Old April 9, 2008, 08:08 AM   #5
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Well in my young adult life I had the opportunity to be on the receiving end of one of the baton devices. I hurts to be hit with one but god forbid if the person you are using it on gets his hands on it. I can be put places it that will take you a long time to remove. Don't ask me how I know it is a long story.
Danny
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Old April 9, 2008, 09:19 AM   #6
David Armstrong
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There is a reason the Taser costs so much and all those other little toys don't. Most stunguns and variations are pretty worthless. You have to get real close and you have to keep the contact for several seconds, and even then you are relying on pain compliance most of the time, as opposed to the Taser which works on neurological disruption.
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Old April 9, 2008, 01:51 PM   #7
.22lr
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Revelation76 If I may ask,

Why the desire to "carry what the police in my city carry"? I would assume this doesn't mean restraints etc. Also, if you have the pepper spray, why the "stun baton"?



I must point out that your statement;
Quote:
"I only want a strong quality weapon though, that can be depended on in the "less lethal" category"
followed by the statement;
Quote:
"I would pay 100.00 or a little more for a good quality stun baton"
is worrisome. There is much wisdom in the phrase "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". $100USD buys a decent knife, Tasers are expensive because they are quality.



If you were to explain your perceived need for such a device it may help others add value to this conversation.



I am floored by the statement
Quote:
"I'm not interested in debating the merits of different weapons"
This statement kinda kills the conversation.



One other thing to consider, a decent quality knife is just darned handy throughout the day. It opens boxes, peels tape, and, should the need arise, makes a dandy contact weapon.

Stay safe,
Matt
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Old April 9, 2008, 05:18 PM   #8
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Hola

.22lr- I stated that I was "aware of all of my options" and "I'm not interested in debating the merits of different weapons"--This is because I never wanted to have a conversation about how I intend to use it etc- sorry for flooring you. I appreciate your willingness to discuss the matter, but I just don't have any wish to talk about so many details. It may be helpful to someone else, but I'll let them jump in when they want to. I was just looking for people that know a lot about stun batons and devices, and could comment on some specific models of higher quality etc. Peace.

David Armstrong-Thanks for your comment.
I'm hoping for a middle ground between the cheaper priced stun equipment and the 300 dollar + Taser. Maybe a Taser "shock" without the projectiles. For cost savings it's better than nothing. I know I'll end up with a Taser eventually.
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Old April 9, 2008, 07:21 PM   #9
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I think you are better off trying a forum geared to non-lethal weapons (dont know if one exist) You could also try LEO forums.

Have you thought of asking a local LEO? I doubt many of them would be enthusastic about you carrying a stun gun, along with a gun and pepper spray, so I would could see some might not be so forth coming with that info. I think think your best bet is to visit the shop that oufits local LEO's. Here in VA we have a great store right near one of our Judicial Centers (Virginia Arms Company, Holla), lots of cops shop there so they have alot of info. Do you have similar shop in your area?

While I also dont agree with the stun gun, I also dont think we should post just to bash the guy. As far as I know, it is legal to own. Whether or not it has any merit as a proper self defense tool is an argument for another post. A post the OP was trying to aviod in the first place.


Good luck and for God's sake be safe with that thing!

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Old April 9, 2008, 09:47 PM   #10
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teifmen1948- Thanks!
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Old April 9, 2008, 10:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
While I also dont agree with the stun gun, I also dont think we should post just to bash the guy.
Agreed.

Quote:
I was just looking for people that know a lot about stun batons and devices, and could comment on some specific models of higher quality etc. Peace.
Problem is, Rev, that's a catch 22. Those who are knowledgeable can't, in good conscience, recommend any brand of stun baton . I say in good conscience because in doing so, and having you buy brand X, it will most likely give you a false sense of confidence.

I've been in on the electronic stun device revolution since the beginning, and I've "taken the ride" on most of 'em. Early on, we employed both the Nova and the Ultron II. Those were the earliest that used not only voltage, but frequency to interrupt the nervous system's signals to the voluntary muscles.

Therein lies the secret: It's not so much the voltage as it is the frequency. The human nervous system basically employs 3 different frequencies (much the same as different radio frequencies). One controls the heart, one controls involuntary muscles such as intestinal peristalsis, and one controls the voluntary muscles that move our bodies.

Effective stun devices selectively interrupt the signals to the voluntary muscles only. Taser has refined this technology significantly, and recently improved it even further with the development of shaped pulse technology in their "X" series Tasers. I'm relatively sure the new civilian model also uses it, hence the cost.

But, you were asking about stun batons. Unfortunately, all the models I'm familiar with rely only on voltage. Admittedly, the sight of all that fire running up and down the shaft is intimidating, but it's little else. Yes, it hurts, and it might (I stress the word "might" ) make someone drop a knife or blunt object, but its effect is only local and the most probable effect will be making your attacker even more angry.

When these stun batons first came out, a number of departments tried them, I think, in fact, because of the "cool" factor . After most of the officers used them and reported them to be mostly ineffective, however, they were dropped in favor of other, more reliable devices. While I'm sure there's still a few hanging on, I know of no department today that still uses them

Quote:
Maybe a Taser "shock" without the projectiles.
And that's Taser's other secret: The probes (projectiles). With traditional stun devices, the path the electricity travels is relatively short, only a few inches or so. Taser's probes deploy at different angles, and when properly used, that path is much, much longer, and effectively incapacitates much more of the body.

The bottom line is, while some of the posters are perhaps a little harsh in their words, they do speak the truth. I know it's not what you want to hear, but out of concern for your safety should you become involved in an actual incident, I strongly suggest you save your money for awhile and go with a real Taser.
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Old April 9, 2008, 11:56 PM   #12
Revelation76
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Thanks very much Capt Charlie

I greatly appreciate your response. That's some really good information. Taser it is...
Taser International is just up the road from me, so I can feel good about supporting a local business to boot!


"TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does your post make you?" --Well said indeed. Thanks again.
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Old April 10, 2008, 03:08 AM   #13
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I know that you don't want to be lectured, and I don't plan to do so, but I do have a few things to say.

If you would like to CCW, you're licensed, and you're mentally fit to do so, I am more than happy that you are packing.

However, with all the stuff that you mentioned wanting to carry... I think you'd be becoming VERY vulnerable to some major lawsuits if you ever used these "tools." Arming yourself with so many LEO weapons/devices will not look good to a jury, and will definitely not look good if you ever happened to be pulled over by a cop.

Also, police officers are trained with their "tools" and the force continuum is drilled into their minds. You lack that training.

If you have your CCW permit and are responsible enough to carry, then that's wonderful. More power to ya. Heck, carry some OC spray if that will make you feel safer and will keep you from having to use lethal force.

But if you start delving into the realms of impact weapons, people (or a jury) are gonna start wondering if you were looking for trouble.

And, keep in mind... if you're ever forced to defend yourself, I hope that you realize that "flight" is better than "fight" unless you have no choice or innocent people are in danger. Weapons that are meant to detain a subject are very different than those that are designed to offer defense or a means for escape.
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Old April 10, 2008, 12:49 PM   #14
Revelation76
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I have no interest in impact weapons. Only those that I've listed.

Yes, I agree. ALWAYS RUN AWAY WHEN YOU CAN.

I'm honestly not too concerned with carrying pepper spray, a Taser and a gun. The gun worries me the most though, for the obvious reasons. The police are very much accustomed to seeing citizens carry guns here in Arizona. If you're polite and inform them of what your carrying, they'll be much less surprised.
Arizona is an open carry state, with a CCW option, and there are no regulations on pepper spray or stun devices. You can get pepper spray in the checkout isle of Auto Zone. There are no rules as to how many guns you can have concealed, but for me, I would think that multiple guns would not look good to a jury. Tasers and pepper spray are nothing compared to a gun.

Last edited by Revelation76; April 11, 2008 at 01:13 PM. Reason: redundant word usage
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Old April 10, 2008, 12:57 PM   #15
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Go to a hardware store and buy a cattle prod. Cheap, effective, and down right vicious.
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Old April 10, 2008, 04:12 PM   #16
Shadi Khalil
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Go to a hardware store and buy a cattle prod. Cheap, effective, and down right vicious


I thought that and the stun baton were the same thing. Can you really get a cattle prod at home depot?
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Old April 10, 2008, 07:10 PM   #17
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You can buy a cattle prod at a feed and seed store. I know. My brother bought one for his girl friend for Christmas in South Carolina. I doubt Home Depot, as they do not deal with live stock. Where I am from in the sticks, hardware stores carry these sorts of things as people own live stock.

To my knowledge, a cattle prod would probably be more powerful- especially since it specifically states not to use it on a human as it could cause severe injury or even death on the one my brother bought. As far as hard evidence, I have none, and am not interested enough to read up on it. Here is a site I found for you that sells them:

http://www.redhillgeneralstore.com/prod.htm

Looks as if the "Top of the line Premium Prod" can be had for 80 bucks, so I'd definately say that is well within the budget of the OP.
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Old April 10, 2008, 07:19 PM   #18
Revelation76
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How about one of these?

http://www.jefferslivestock.com/ssc/...H9&pf_id=16149

Actually a good sturdy cattle prod might be a useful starting point for a little alteration project of some kind.....
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Old April 10, 2008, 07:28 PM   #19
Shadi Khalil
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Rev,

You are gonna have to use the prod on them before you can use that other device you found

Really though, I dont think a cattle prod would be a good idea, especailly when it says "do not use on humans". Other people mentioned the possible added liability in court of carrying a stun baton, imagine the field day they would have with a freakin' cattle prod.
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Old April 10, 2008, 07:32 PM   #20
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But it sure would be funny if you had a buddy in your car.. "Hey man, what's this?... Why it's my trusty cattle prod!... Let somebody try to hijack me by God!"
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Old April 10, 2008, 07:40 PM   #21
Revelation76
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I'm thinking Taser now anyways. It's not HUGELY expensive, but my SP101 will have to wait. The Taser package that I'm thinking about will be about the same price in the end as the revolver. I figure I might as well get the laser sight and a couple of practice cartridges for myself and loved ones to try out.
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Old April 10, 2008, 09:01 PM   #22
Shadi Khalil
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Rev,

Do you already have other hanguns or are you fore-going the pistol in favor of the taser for the time being?
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Old April 10, 2008, 10:32 PM   #23
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Ramblin' man says-

I only have a .22lr revolver-High Standard model "Double Nine". I don't have my CCW yet, and I don't like to open carry. I always have Sabre Red pepper spray in my pocket, but that's all for now as far as weapons go. I'm not much of a knife fan.
I think for me and my family members buying Tasers first would be the best route at this time. I'm the only gun person right now in my immediate family. My mother would never carry a gun, but I might get her to carry a Taser with a little persuasion. (I've already passed pepper spray out to everyone) I advise all readers to give pepper spray as a gift to all of their family members.

My sister realizes that it would be a good idea to learn the basics of gun handling, safety and self defense, but didn't yet wish to borrow my revolver. I'm trying to get her and some friends to go out to the range with me sometime. I like going alone, but I'd like more of our responsible citizens to arm themselves.
I tend to get interested in various subjects and then try to nicely persuade others to have the same interests. If I had the money I would set everyone up with exactly what I wish to carry. No better way to help someone develop that self defense mindset than to have them already own the equipment. I'll be giving Streamlight Scorpion flashlights as gifts next.
Having some nicer equipment, gets one thinking about just how lacking they were before. I've had some martial arts training in my high school days, and that was nice for some extra confidence(from other high schoolers), but even the black belts I knew would be wise to have some self defense "tools" or weapons in their hands if confronted by some of the maniacs roaming the streets today. False confidence is a pretty dangerous confidence to have. I don't want to go back to Karate classes anymore, though I respect it highly. My defensive reactions from Kenpo have stuck with me over 20years which is nice. I'm 36 now and I'm forcing myself to exercise (for free) by getting back on my mountain bike. It's important to stay in shape for your health and self defense abilities.
For me, I've found that taking that first step of merely carrying some pepper spray is a good way to move on to a gun for defensive purposes. Pepper spray gives you a little peace of mind, but then you realize that's it's not enough if the situation is REALLY dangerous. You'll then start to think of other options. For a private citizen, the ultimate is a firearm.
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Old April 11, 2008, 03:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by copenhagen
My brother bought one for his girl friend for Christmas
Details! We need details!
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Old January 28, 2009, 12:08 AM   #25
Contrarian12
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Hey Revelation,

I think what you're looking for is a cattle prod, like the Red Snapper:



or maybe the Stock Shock:



Regards....
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