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Old March 30, 2008, 07:10 PM   #1
imp
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p11 vs. pf9

I used to own a Kel-Tec P11, and even though I loved it, my cousin traded me his S&W 629 for my P11 and $150, so that was a no-brainer. Anyway, I've been carrying my Witness P-Carry this winter, but its just too big for summer carry. I want another Kel-Tec, but I have yet to decide if I want another P11, or the thinner PF9. My normal mode of carry in the summer is in a uncle mikes pouch thingy ( I know, not the prefered nomenclature, but its not really a holster) but inside the lower leg pockets of my cargo pants. Not the fastest draw ever, but it works and its comfortable.

Is there a noticable difference between the two pistols, besides the obvious??
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Old March 30, 2008, 07:21 PM   #2
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The P11 has been around longer and has the bugs worked out. They are basically the same size, but the P11 holds 3 more rds. Mine has been very reliable. If people would read the manual and take care of the gun, it will be a good gun.
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Old March 30, 2008, 07:57 PM   #3
jakeswensonmt
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Last summer I went into a local shop to buy either a P11 or PF9, and ended up with a P11. (1) I liked the action on the P11 better, DAO, simple, second strike capability. (2) The P11 grip is already almost too small for my mitts, the even thinner PF9 was swimming in my hand. (3) The extra capacity of the P11, plus S&W mag compatibility. (4) The PF9 is a new product, may still suffer from early production/design bugs.
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Old March 31, 2008, 10:35 AM   #4
gb_in_ga
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Quote:
Is there a noticable difference between the two pistols, besides the obvious??
> Obviously, the capacity is different. Some may want the higher capacity of the P-11. Should it happen that I'll actually have to use it, I figure that the 8 rounds in my new PF-9 are enough to get the job done.
> Obviously, the PF-9 is thinner being a single stack vs the double stack P-11. That makes it somewhat easier to conceal, but some may want the wider grip of the P-11 from an ergonomics standpoint.
> The PF-9 has a lighter trigger pull. This is a carry-over from its dual ancestry of being derived from both the P-11 and the P3AT. It got the P3AT's trigger, a common complaint against the P-11 is, after all, the heavy-ish trigger pull. The PF-9 does not have second strike capability.
> The PF-9 is somewhat lighter.

Note that it is true that the early production PF-9s had some serious problems, Kel-Tec was really good about pushing through revisions that have cleared them up. I understand that what is now being produced are "mature" and don't have the early issues. The model had growing pains, in other words.
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Old March 31, 2008, 11:17 AM   #5
chris in va
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I fondled a PF9 at the last gun show. Just not something I would carry...too thin. At least I can hold on to my P11.

Frankly I don't see what's so wrong with the P11 platform. All they had to do was work on the trigger a bit. If people are so worried about concealment, just get the factory belt clip like I did. Heck, there's even a mod to lighten the trigger pull some.
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Old March 31, 2008, 04:13 PM   #6
gb_in_ga
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Just not something I would carry...too thin. At least I can hold on to my P11.
To me, it is a trade-off. Easier to conceal, but less comfortable shooting. Or more comfortable shooting, but not as easy to conceal. I figure that I'll carry mine a whole lot more than I'll be shooting it. As long as I can still control it when I do shoot it (and I can), then I figured that the better trade-off for me is to go with the flatter package. I mean, once I get it broken in I'll shoot it maybe once every 3 to 6 months or so for familiarization and that's it -- the rest of the time it gets carried. I can always shoot something else.

Quote:
If people are so worried about concealment, just get the factory belt clip like I did.
I ordered one for mine from KelTec just last week.

Quote:
Frankly I don't see what's so wrong with the P11 platform. All they had to do was work on the trigger a bit...Heck, there's even a mod to lighten the trigger pull some.
Other than the trigger, I like the P-11. It was a decision which one of the 2 to get. It is just that the PF-9 hides a bit easier, and the trigger was better out of the box. And yes, I did know about the trigger mod. It's just that given the choice of needing to do the trigger mod or not needing to do the trigger mod, I'll go with one needing less work.
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Old March 31, 2008, 11:04 PM   #7
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I'm with you on the size/comfort factor GB. Even though I try to make it a habit to carry a spare mag, 7 rounds should be plenty for me. After all, my dad never felt undergunned with his 5 shot S&W. But times have change, and a Kel-Tec fires a more capable round, holds more rounds, and weighs less than my old man's .38, so its an easy choice for me.

That being said, I was willing to trade a few rounds of ammo for a slimmer package, but now that I know the PF9 dosen't have the second strike capability, I'm going to buy another P11. I'm not all that worried about the trigger. It is kind of annoying at the range, but if I ever have to put lead to flesh, I'm not going to care. And to be honest, I did kind of despise the rail they put on the bottom of the PF9.

Thanks for the input guys.
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Old April 1, 2008, 06:31 PM   #8
briang2ad
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Quote:
but now that I know the PF9 dosen't have the second strike capability, I'm going to buy another P11
hmmmmm....... From Keltec: Firing mechanism is Double-Action Only with an automatic hammer block safety. HERE: http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/pf9.html

So... It is slimmer (slimmest 9mm), and has a better trigger OTB - not bad. I am considering one for the summer - more reports please. Thanks,
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Old April 1, 2008, 08:27 PM   #9
chris in va
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So having a hammer, that means it does have second strike capability?
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Old April 1, 2008, 10:44 PM   #10
gb_in_ga
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So having a hammer, that means it does have second strike capability?
Nope. Sadly, there's no second strike capability. Racking the slide moves the hammer to the halfcock position, and the DA trigger pulls the hammer the rest of the way back. That's why the trigger pull is so light. Unfortunately, there is no provision for the DA trigger to fully stroke the hammer if it is not cocked. And no, the hammer is not situated so that you could manually cock it. It is (mostly) shrouded.

Kel-Tec has an animated GIF here that illustrates how it works.
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Old June 13, 2008, 06:12 PM   #11
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I went from a P-11 to a PF-9. For me, the deciding factor was the trigger. Yes, I'm giving up a few round and the restrike capabillity, but having a lighter trigger (5-6 lb by some reports) means that I can shoot more accurately. In the craziness of an SD situation, I want all the accuracy help I can get; after all, misses don't count but I am still responsible for them.

Another factor is that the P-11 lacks a hammer block, which means it can go off if dropped--the PF-9 has a block

The additional slimness is a bonus as well. After getting used to the PF, my P-11 feels like a 2x4, both in my pocket and my hand.
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Old June 13, 2008, 07:31 PM   #12
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I'm a little confused why anybody would think that second strike capability matters.

I've trained with a number of different instructors and I've read what many more have to say, and the unanimous opinion is that if the gun goes "click" when you pull the trigger, you do a tap-rack-bang to clear the malfunction, rather than pull the trigger again.

This makes sense to me, since a feeding or ejection problem is far more likely than failure of a primer to ignite. Furthermore if the primer failed to ignite, either because it was a dud or because the mainspring delivered a light strike, it's not clear that a second strike would be more successful.

Am I missing something here?
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Old June 13, 2008, 08:36 PM   #13
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I suppose it's a "nice to have, just in case" thing. I have had rounds that went off on the second strike, at the range. Of course, with a PF-9, that option no longer exists. Considering the improved trigger pull, it's worth giving up.
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Old June 14, 2008, 01:52 AM   #14
imp
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Tuesday I picked up my new P11, a galco IWB holster, couple of spare mags, and took it too the range. Its not a target pistol, but head shot a 7 yards everytime is good enough for me.

As for the second strike capability, who knows. Tap-rack-bang is time consuming, especially with no cover. Honestly, I don't expect to need second strike capability, but you never know..

On a side not, as I was picking out some leather for the P11, the clerk pulled me to the side to show me the holster he keeps his KT P3AT in. So, not only did he sell a holster, but as soon as it gets in, he's sold another P3AT.....
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Old June 14, 2008, 08:30 AM   #15
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PF9 is thinner and easier to conceal. Holds fewer rounds. Trigger pull is easier.

PF9 has had fewer problems in the past, I think. Mine performs flawlessly.
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Old June 14, 2008, 06:47 PM   #16
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El Vato,

For me, I think it's the whole adrenaline-dump situation where we have learned when humans don't always have the immediate capacity to do the best thing, they tend to repeat previous actions (i.e. keep pulling the trigger). You're right. The best thing to do is train, train, train until it's second nature to do the tap-rack-bang.
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Old June 14, 2008, 11:32 PM   #17
B.N.Real
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I was actually put off a little by the bulkiness of the p-11 in my pocket.

I might check out this new pf-9 just for the heck of it.

And if new I'm sure it comes with the lifetime warranty and it's plastic with few metal parts so it's very corrosion resistant to sweat.
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