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Old March 19, 2008, 07:37 PM   #1
LiveFast
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CCW laws in NY

So I went through the insane process in NYS to get my pistol permit. Recieved it two month's ago. I've bought two guns as well already.. (GF is gonna kill me ).. and I'm still confused to if I can carry "legally". Btw, my county is fairly lienient.. we have a great county clerk that can get things process incredibly fast. I bought a gun the other day and went and saw her and I picked it up that night.

My permit says "Licensed to carry pistol is hereby granted:" My name, picture, address, job, judge signature is on there. But on the top, it say's "State of New York, County of Rensselaer" "Hunting and Target" are underneath it.

I've been told you can get two types in NY: This one, and Premise only. They dont issue unrestricted carries. But someone told me they are "Administrative" restrictions, I cant go to jail or anything.

I've read the stories about people just putting targets in their car, or saying they belong to a 24/7 club when they get questioned by LEO's.

My boss carries all the time, and I believe his say's the same thing. Can someone clear this up for me? Should I write a letter to the judge in a year asking for the restrictions lifted? I just dont want to jeopordize losing my guns.

Thanks everyone.
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Old March 19, 2008, 07:56 PM   #2
Johnc
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The hunting and target restrictions imprinted on your license mean just that. They are restrictions. It is the intention of the issuing authority to restrict your license for the purposes of hunting and target use. If you violate that restriction, you will be violating their policies. You can risk revocation. As I understand it, your area is much more gun friendly than mine (downstate). I wonder if you can obtain an unrestricted license. Did you inquire?

Some useful information can be learned from these web sites.


http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/me...MMONQUERY=LAWS

http://handgunlaw.us

Also, remember, your license is no good in NYC.
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Old March 19, 2008, 08:28 PM   #3
Wuchak
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I went through the process for the NY permit when I was there. The restrictions are between you and the issuing Judge. From a law enforcement point of view you have a permit. They are not concerned with the restrictions and violating them carries no criminal or civil penalties but the Judge can revoke your permit if word gets back to him that you were stopped and obviously not on your way to or from the range or the woods. Most Judges consider all outdoor activities: hiking, backpacking, etc. to be included in the hunting restriction. You cannot just say you are part of a 24/7 club, you need to go join one. There are several in the area, gun-ho-a, in Schenectady is a good one but I believe there is a multi-year waiting list for membership. Once you join one put a range bag in the car with targets, eye and ear protection, and some ammo and leave it there. Then you are always on your way to the range. Not from the range since that's easy to confirm. I had my permit in Fulton county which was also very CCW friendly. The standard was that after you had your permit for one year you went back to see the Judge and asked to have the restrictions removed. Anyone I know who did this had them lifted. After a year you have proven yourself responsible.

Good luck and congrats on making it through the muddled NY process. Since I left NY I have obtained my Utah non-resident permit and my KS resident permit and the effort for both combined was 1/2 what it was to get it in NY. Of course here in KS you don't need a permit to own a handgun, just to carry concealed. If you want one for hunting, hiking, target practice, etc. you just go to the store and buy it.


In reading through the NY penal code covering handgun permits no place does it say that you have to tell an officer that you are a permit holder or that you are carrying. Some states require to you to tell the police when you are stopped e.g. for speeding, that you have a handgun. Since you are not required to disclose it you shouldn't if you are carrying and have restrictions on your permit. http://public.leginfo.state.ny.us/me...MMONQUERY=LAWS See penal law section 400
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Old March 20, 2008, 07:04 AM   #4
LiveFast
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Thank you both for all of your help. It's nice to find NY specific people who can chime in on my issue. I was just going to call the clerk to find out what is necessary to recieve an unrestricted permit in our county..
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Old March 20, 2008, 07:15 AM   #5
Musketeer
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I concur with the previous posters on this issue.

In NY it is always good to utilize deep concealment with your permit. Tuckables are an excellent idea.
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Old March 20, 2008, 07:29 AM   #6
LiveFast
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This looks like the exact excerpt I need:

7. License: form. Any license issued pursuant to this section shall,
except in the city of New York, be approved as to form by the
superintendent of state police. A license to carry or possess a pistol
or revolver shall have attached the licensee's photograph, and a coupon
which shall be removed and retained by any person disposing of a firearm
to the licensee. Such license shall specify the weapon covered by
calibre, make, model, manufacturer's name and serial number, or if none,
by any other distinguishing number or identification mark, and shall
indicate whether issued to carry on the person or possess on the
premises,

I did a google search but couldn't come up with much for advanced pistol training in NYS, specifically the upstate area. Anyone know of any?
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Old March 20, 2008, 07:58 AM   #7
nicknitro71
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I have a NYS permit that also states Hunting and Target. As pointed out if you are concealing with it (other than NYC) you're not braking any laws but the issuing judge might revoke the permit.

There is a solution...not all county judges put the "Hunting and Target" restriction and there are a few who think that the restriction is actually a violation of the permit itself. I have a few friends who go the restriction taken away from a different judge than the issuing one.

A few years back, Delaware County used to issue permits with no restrictions...
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Old March 20, 2008, 08:04 AM   #8
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If you cannot get your restrictions lifted you could join a sportsmen club that allows 24 hour of shooting. Then if you get stoped by a cop while concealing you just state that you are on your way to the club to target shoot.
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Old March 20, 2008, 08:10 AM   #9
LiveFast
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Only problem with the above, is aparently there is a year+ waiting list to get into these 24hr gun clubs. Anymore info on judges that would remove the restrictions of the permit?
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Old March 20, 2008, 08:16 AM   #10
Musketeer
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Be happy you are not on Long Island. The Suffolk County Police (a non-elected official who is in charge of permits...) requires documented proof of multiple threats and attempts made upon your life with identification of the party responsible... What a joke. If I have multiple serious threats and attempts made against my life, documented, and we all know who is responsible then why is he still loose?
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Old March 20, 2008, 09:03 AM   #11
wnycollector
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I have an unrestricted NYS permit issued in Niagara County (one of the most 2nd ammendment friendly counties in NYS!!!). I have good friend that had a restricted permit like yours get his restriction lifted in Erie county after a few years (~3...but cant be sure). Like most of the other posters have said alot of guys have a range bag in their trunks...just in case they are carrying while "on the way to the range"!!
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Old March 20, 2008, 01:13 PM   #12
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I even asked the clerk at the sheriffs office and she said it was a big gray area. In my county they do not put on the license "Hunting and Target" but they used to put "personal protection", which they no longer will put on them. The gray area starts because according to NY state law if there are any restrictions they must be listed on the permit. So I'm not really sure if I can carry all the time or not.
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Old March 20, 2008, 01:52 PM   #13
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Don't ask don't tell.
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Old March 20, 2008, 01:59 PM   #14
Musketeer
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What your local issuing authority will NOT tell you if they place restrictions on your NY permit.

http://www.troopers.state.ny.us/FAQs...ms/Permits.cfm

Quote:
Q - What section of the Penal Law authorizes the placing of restrictions on pistol permits by the issuing authority?

The Penal Law does not specifically authorize the placing of restrictions on pistol permits. However, court decisions have consistently supported the ability of licensing officials to impose these restrictions. Such an imposition is an administrative function of the licensing officer.

Licensees in violation of these restrictions would therefore not be subject to criminal prosecution but would face action being taken by the court of issuance in the form of suspension or possible revocation of the license.
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Old March 20, 2008, 04:13 PM   #15
jrm
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A point to keep in mind...

If the "24 hour club" you join is 5 miles west of your home, and you get stopped 5 miles east of your home, it is a real stretch to state you arwe on your way there.

Also note that different counties have different rules regarding how hunting/target restrictions are regulated and enforced. The very tight Suffolk county restriction is a great example. If you get stopped outside of your own county, you are likely to be judged by that county's own code/restrictions. Especially if you are nowhere near that 24 hour range.

Yes, I fully understand that the violation is administrative. However, the county still has the power to revoke. Once they do, I think it very unlikely that you will get a new license for a while, if at all. Without a license, then you have to get rid of all your handguns. Any carry at all without that license is then a felony. For me, too much of a risk. YMMV.
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Old March 20, 2008, 05:41 PM   #16
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While all of the above is true, and I would not advocate anyone carrying in a manner that would violate the "restrictions" on their license there are some assumptions to be made. First, you would actually have to be caught carrying the handgun. Now how would that happen? Have you been frisked lately? I'm almost 50, and have never been frisked in my entire life. New York State law does not require you to inform a cop that you are carrying if you are stopped on a traffic violation. Accidently flash the gun at the local coffee shop? Very careless. Concealed does mean concealed right? So let's say John Q. Public spots the gun, and gives a **** enough to call the cops. (Unlikely, he probably thinks you are a cop). The cop answering the call stops you, and you explain you have a license for the gun. Now it's a discretionary call on his part. Obviously your not a criminal, they tend to NOT have licenses. So he may just send you on your way and say go home, or he could push the issue if he's in a bad mood and file the report. Then you have a big problem. But IMO a lot of things have to go wrong on your part to get to that point.

Again, I would never advocate carrying a handgun around with you on a "restricted" license.
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Old March 20, 2008, 07:34 PM   #17
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In NYC, the process of getting one is SUCH a hassle, that I would not want to ever have it revoked even if it just meant that I would have to go thru the same process to get it back. It's that bad.

Even worse, tho, is the fact that you will probably NEVER get it back. And that, my friends, would suck so much I can't even fathom it. Then I'd have to move.

And selling my house would be just as much hassle as getting a new permit.

What I'm trying to say is that they make it almost worth getting robbed and your wallet taken rather than getting caught carrying with a restricted license. Raped or murdered is another story, of course...
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Old March 21, 2008, 07:53 AM   #18
Johnc
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Quote:
The Suffolk County Police (a non-elected official who is in charge of permits...) requires documented proof of multiple threats and attempts made upon your life with identification of the party responsible... What a joke. If I have multiple serious threats and attempts made against my life, documented, and we all know who is responsible then why is he still loose?
Musketeer you are correct. Further on this subject, even with the documented proof of the attempt(s) on you life and with a court order of protection and a police report of the incident(s) in addition to an arrest of the BG, expect opposition.

That is not here-say, that is from personal experience. BTW, that is AFTER being a license holder in two counties for over 15 years without incident.
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Old March 21, 2008, 12:32 PM   #19
LiveFast
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Viper, that's pretty much the mindset I'd have. I'm upstate btw, not NYC.

I called the clerk last night asking what is required for the restrictions to be lifted. She called me back today, but I missed her call. She left a VM saying she would call me Monday, as she was out of the office the rest of the day.
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Old March 21, 2008, 12:47 PM   #20
cnjaxx
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I lived in Suffolk County for most of my life. The process that I went to to obtain a pistol permit borderd on unconstitional. During the investigation the SCPD even went through my neighborhood and asked my neighbors humiliating questions about me such as "do I beat my wife".

For you to get a ligitimate full carry in NY is almost imposible.

I have since moved to South Carolina, where they don't have a problem issueing a full consealed carry permit to Upright citizens. In fact I had mine in a couple of months after application. And the myth of increased crime is BS.
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Old March 21, 2008, 05:37 PM   #21
jrm
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Quote:
During the investigation the SCPD even went through my neighborhood and asked my neighbors humiliating questions about me such as "do I beat my wife".
Hmmm... I have nothing to compare the process to. However, I was pleasantly surprised with it.

The officer who interviewed me was professional and polite. There was a mix-up with the time - the appointment was 10:30, she called my house at 10:15 asking where I was for my 10am. Fortunately, I had pulled into the parking lot 10 minutes early. I think that "mix-up" was staged to make me off balance and defensive, but it wasn't that big a deal. The benefit was that the officer spoke with my wife and got the "do you know he is applying" question out of the way.

The interview lasted about 5 minutes. Most of the time was doing the fingerprints.

Two of my four required affidavits arrived by the time of my interview. I was told that all they use is two, so not to worry about the other arriving. I was given the impression that as long as the background check came back fine (i.e. I didn't lie on the application) the license was coming.

The SCPD, to my knowledge, never contacted anyone. At most, they may have called a reference to verify it's authenticity.

They have 6 months to answer - I received by permit in the mail in about 4.

My wife is going through the same process now. Was just as easy, but seems like it might take a little longer for the permit to come. Again, no one we know of has been contacted, and certainly no embarrassing questions have been asked.

Yes, the policy of no CCW sucks big time. But the process itself was so much simpler and less hassle than I imagined.

Again, I have nothing to compare it to, but I couldn't imagine it being easier (quicker, yes, but not easier).
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Old March 21, 2008, 06:14 PM   #22
cnjaxx
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At the time I obtained my licens(1985), they were really nice at Yapank. But when my neighbors came to me and told me about the questions that they were asked, during the investigation, that kinda got my goat.
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Old March 27, 2008, 09:44 PM   #23
GP357
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Don't know if this is relevant, but anyone know what the "hunting endorsemnt" from NYC PD is worth in upstate NY?
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Old March 28, 2008, 11:04 AM   #24
Johnc
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Quote:
Don't know if this is relevant, but anyone know what the "hunting endorsemnt" from NYC PD is worth in upstate NY?



If I understand your question , I assume you have a target license issued by 1 PP and want to know if their hunting endorsement works for Upstate NY? If that is your question, then the answer I believe is yes. You can use it to hunt upstate if you have a valid hunting license. I would check with 1 PP to make sure. I know that you can't use it to hunt in Central Park. Or at 7Th and 56Th.
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Old March 28, 2008, 11:35 AM   #25
Desert01
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Live Fast,

The Albany area isn't much on CCW pistol permits. When one of my friends moved there from Ft. Drum he had to give up his unrestricted Jefferson county permit(which he had for over 10 years). You permit could be revoked for carring concealed so keep it in mind.

As for training there is MDTS in the utica area you could try.
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