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Old March 8, 2008, 10:18 PM   #1
bt 223
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Pointed a gun at a kid with an Airsoft.

About a week ago I was home instead of at church due to the flu. While sitting on the couch, I looked out the window and saw a person dressed all in black, walking away from a vehicle I didn't recognize, with an AR-15 at his shoulder pointed at my neighbors house. My first thought was that it might be an airsoft, but there was no discolored tip. I immediately went and retrieved my own AR that I keep loaded, hammer down on an empty chamber. I put a shell into the chamber, put it on safe, and looked back out another window. Only through the scope on 9 power could I tell that his AR had a dark blue tip. I immediately dropped my rifle but continued to watch. Shortly another boy came around the far side of the house with a clear airsoft, and their "battle" ensued. Both boys were about 16-17. This scared me, not just because of what it looked like was going on at first, but what I was prepared to do if it had been real, and shots had been fired.

I feel I acted reasonably well all things considered. Had it been a real incident it would have ended quickly. I have learned much by this incident and hope others can as well. Feel free to critique me, but remember it all happened in about 10 seconds.
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Old March 8, 2008, 10:22 PM   #2
SLOMountaineer
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What's to stop bad guys from putting colored plastic tips on their REAL guns to get people to be complacent?
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Old March 8, 2008, 10:39 PM   #3
jfrey123
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I would've done the same brother. Might have even had less patience than you, being young and quick to act as I am. Good job verifying your target.
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Old March 9, 2008, 02:43 AM   #4
grey sky
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Trust but verify

Good job. Know your target and whats beyond.

Now, were to get those orange tips?
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Old March 9, 2008, 03:12 AM   #5
KD5NRH
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http://www.dpmsinc.com/store/products/?prod=783

Not orange, but close.

Of course, just some blaze orange Duracoat on the flash hider would have a similar effect. I've wanted to make some cheap guns into flashy multicolored custom plinkers, but the cost of buying several colors of Gunkote or Duracoat has kept me putting it off.

Edited to add: Missed these the first time - http://www.cjweapons.com/aspcart45/p...id=319&start=1

Last edited by KD5NRH; March 9, 2008 at 03:14 AM. Reason: New information added
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Old March 9, 2008, 03:18 AM   #6
Fremmer
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I immediately went and retrieved my own AR that I keep loaded, hammer down on an empty chamber.
Hammer down???
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Old March 9, 2008, 03:28 AM   #7
scsov509
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Hammer down???
As in not cocked so that there is no tension on the hammer. That's the same way I store pretty much everything I own.
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Old March 9, 2008, 10:13 AM   #8
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Thus far the Airsoft fatalities have mostly been involving law enforcement and victims who are unlikely to draw massive public sympathy (such as 7-11 stickup artists with a poor choice of sidearm.)

It's only a matter of time, however, before some photogenic suburbanite youth gets sparked by Joe or Jane CCW, and then the feces will meet the oscillating air circulator for sure.
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Old March 9, 2008, 10:56 AM   #9
Kenpo
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What's to stop bad guys from putting colored plastic tips on their REAL guns to get people to be complacent?
There's an unsettling thought. A moments hesitation is all they would get, but they may be enough.

I got a toy AR for Christmas as a kid. It looked so cool, other than that geeky orange tip. What was Matel thinking... that didn't look real at all. So, I cut it off. Ahhh... stupid kid.
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Old March 9, 2008, 12:05 PM   #10
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You did fine.

My brother has been a cop in a large southern city for almost 30 years. He was a SWAT member and taught officer survival in the academy, in addition to regular patrol duties.

He responded to a call that a man was pointing a pistol at automobiles from a street corner. When he arrived he cautiously approached the suspect, who reacted in a startled manner, and turned party away as if attempting to hide something. My brother drew his service weapon, a hi-cap Smith .40, and pointed it at the suspect. The suspect -- a teenager -- ignored my brother's order to show his hands, which was shouted repeatedly. The suspect then began moving his hands down his leg, attempting to arrest the fall of a solid object that was obviously sliding down the front of his trouser leg. The suspect was ordered repeatedly to "freeze" and "show his hands" but did not obey. When his hands got down to the end of his trousers, the butt of a 1911 emerged. The only reason he was not killed at that point was that my brother recognized the "1911" as a "Marksman" BB pistol, a copy of the 1911, because we had one as kids.

It would have been a justifiable shoot of a YBM in a southern city by a white cop. My brother is an excellent marksman, and it would have been fatal, I have no doubt.

By the grace of God the kid lived to survive a major ass chewing by my brother in front of the kid's parents. It began with "I almost killed your son today." My brother has enough ugly memories related to his police service. I'm glad that killing that dumb kid isn't one of them.

I think you handled your situation just fine. Did you consider an ass chewing?
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Old March 9, 2008, 02:57 PM   #11
Erik
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"What's to stop bad guys from putting colored plastic tips on their REAL guns to get people to be complacent?"

Nothing, and some have already figured out that representing real guns as toys may be advantageous, especially in instances where they think enough to "flash" the toy often enough that folks become accustomed to it.
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Old March 9, 2008, 02:58 PM   #12
bt 223
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Almost called the cops to let them handle any chewing, but I didn't.
One thing I would do different next time
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Old March 9, 2008, 03:07 PM   #13
bt 223
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As to the "Hammer Down" question, it also makes the AR quick to deploy in a home defense situation, pull the charging handle and your ready to roll. Also my kids could flip the safety, but are not old enough to be able to charge it.
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Old March 9, 2008, 06:20 PM   #14
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I would let the kids know that people are watching. Don't tell him you had him in the crosshairs but someting like "If someone didn't know you guys were just playing they might call the cops." would get the message across.
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Old March 9, 2008, 07:07 PM   #15
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You spotted a threat and then took defensive action, retrieving your own weapon and then covered the threat with your own weapon and because of its sighting system (the scope), you were able to re-identify the threat as a non-threat faux combatant. Aside maybe from not calling the cops because you had an AR15 carrying ninja in your yard, I think you did very well.

Of course, had it been a real ninja emergency...
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Old March 9, 2008, 08:36 PM   #16
DARIVS ARCHITECTVS
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BT 223, what you did demonstrated a responsible response to a potential threat. You did not act rashly, and that should be commended. Luckily, most gun owners have a similar frame of mind, or there would be far more senseless tragedies than there are every year. Airsoft users SHOULD be aware of their appearance, if they desice tio play in strange neighborhoods, and especially if they choose to appear as a potential threat by removing or painting the orange tip. Common sense to the fore, they should think ahead and perhaps choose to play airsoft in parks or away from people who could mistake what they are up to as much as practicable, if for no other reason as to not alarm people unnecessarily.
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Old March 10, 2008, 06:16 PM   #17
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I feel it is irresponsible to make AIRSOFT firearms black. They could be either/or:

Day-Glo Orange
Flourescent Lime Green
Flourescent Yellow

with only the top of the slide/sights being matt black.

If I were king that would be the law. Paint it and you'd see the inside of a penitentiary.
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Old March 11, 2008, 04:19 AM   #18
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Quote:
I feel it is irresponsible to make AIRSOFT firearms black.
I agree. I actually gotta agree with a wally world policy (which is to only sell clear airsoft guns)...I firmly believe that all non-firearms (as in toys, airsoft guns, etc.) should be made of clear plastic...because there is no way currently to make a clear firearm.

That would also fix the 'problem' the media has with people painting their guns funny colors

Plus, I'm not a fan of airsoft in general...a bunch of kids being taught that its ok to point (and pull the trigger at that ) realistic guns (replicas, but remember, they'll probably own actual firearms some day) at other human beings.
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Old March 11, 2008, 06:33 AM   #19
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I just left the Airsoft Forum and this very question (something to the effect of,"What are the chances of being shot with a real gun, when using an Airsoft gun?) was asked. Most of the replies were - Very Good in certain circumstances, like this one.
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Old March 11, 2008, 08:02 AM   #20
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My nephew had one of those guns. It was a dead knockoff of a Beretta 92. The orange tip on his broke off during his play with it. When I saw it without the orange tip I told my sister in law that she needed to toss it before it got him hurt. She said, "Why?" I said, "Because anybody that sees him with it will think it's real, Might be a shoot first ask questions later situation".

He's got a clear one now that doesn't look quite as real.
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Old March 11, 2008, 08:02 AM   #21
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Airsoft should not be sold as toys to kids

My nephew is a SEAL, and on a required reading list for him was the book On Killing, by Grossman. He recommended it to me, and I was greatly impressed by it.

The author is a Ranger-qualified Army officer with, if I recall correctly, a doctorate in psychology. He makes a very compelling argument that the escalation of violence throughout the industrialized world has been caused by removing the normal inhibition that humans have against killing. The removal of this inhibition is primarily due to allowing adolescents to be exposed to graphic violence in the entertainment media.

Airsoft games are OK for adults, and can teach a great deal about CQB. Serious Airsoft people are very concerned about how their guns look when transporting them to and from their events, and try to keep a low profile. But teaching unsupervised kids that its OK to point a very realistic gun at people and then pull a trigger in a light-hearted game is a very bad thing.
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Old March 11, 2008, 11:31 AM   #22
Chui
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I do NOT disagree with you, Murdock. More people should sit and THINK before they buy things for their kids.

As far as I'm concerned there are NO "toy" guns. Period. I'd never buy one for my child (I don't have any). I would buy them an air rifle which they'd use only with adult supervision. I'd buy them a .22 rifle with the same stipulation: adult supervision. Teaching them to shoot well is enough; no need to desensitize them to taking a human life. If the need arises and they are properly reared it's there. No need to enhance it.
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Old March 11, 2008, 11:48 AM   #23
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Quote:
I looked out the window and saw a person dressed all in black, walking away from a vehicle I didn't recognize, with an AR-15 at his shoulder pointed at my neighbors house. My first thought was that it might be an airsoft, but there was no discolored tip. I immediately went and retrieved my own AR that I keep loaded, hammer down on an empty chamber. I put a shell into the chamber, put it on safe, and looked back out another window. Only through the scope on 9 power could I tell that his AR had a dark blue tip.
I've held my tongue on this one for a fewe days, but what the heck.

Your grabbing and use of a rifle in the scenario you describe was poor judgement.

WildifihavetoexplianwhyseemysigAlaska ™
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Old March 11, 2008, 01:09 PM   #24
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Only issue that I have with actions taken was the use of a scope to identify, with a round in the chamber, weapon on safe.

Not sure I would have done anything different, since my binos are in my hunting gear. Maybe clear the weapon, re-insert the mag but not chamber a round, then scope? From that status, it would take but a second to have a round locked and loaded.

Again, given the same situation, not sure I could have done any better. Lot of stuff to process simultaneously.
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Old March 11, 2008, 01:22 PM   #25
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I saw somebody walking through my woods at home with an AK. I had my FN .308 PBR with ACOG with me (scouting for deer.) I took a look through my ACOG and noted that it was indeed an AK variant- a paintball gun. I cleared my weapon before I took a look because I would never want to shoot another hunter or any human for that matter, and just wanted to see if indeed someone was poaching on my land with an AK. I walked up to the guy who was in his late teens judging by the profusion of zits on his face and informed him that he was tresspassing, and that it is not a good idea to carry toys that resemble assault weapons on somebody else's property without their permission.
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