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Old March 8, 2008, 01:33 PM   #1
Iamwhoiam
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$20,000 What would last?

Hey longtime reader, but I only post on the Highroad as (Texasred) but this question belongs here.

OK so I have secured 20,000 and now have a good paying job that can support large purchases.

I wish to buy a combination of NFA weapons to keep and enjoy and pass on as immediate family heirlooms and treasures.

My only concern is longevity.

Which basic NFA rifles and smgs have the stamina to theoretically last an eternity?

I'm thinking a good combination would be the:
AC556 and UZI carbine and maybe a MAC 10

or

M16 and UZI

What would you prescribe for versatility?

Can an M16 receiver legally use 6.8 and 9mm uppers? or even .22s?

Can any of these be fitted with a suppressor and how much more paperwork is involved?

I was thinking that the AC556 would be a good choice since they are not as much in price, have customer service, and steel receivers.

The M16 receiver leaves me thinking since being aluminum it would easily go sour after a while.

Does the receiver actually take any abuse for firing considering the nature of the AR system?

I hear nothing but good things about the UZI however and am pretty set on this one. I have actually shot one on full auto two times and was impressed completely.

For UZIs should I get a registered gun, bolt, or trigger pack?

I know this is alot to ask and I appreciate your patience.
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Old March 8, 2008, 02:16 PM   #2
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I would (and did) go with the M16. The versatility of different uppers and calibers just cannot be ignored. The lowers will last indefinitely with proper maintenance. I would advise going with KNS pins to keep the longevity going. The only wear problems you would encounter would be with certain blowback or open bolt designs that could place unnecessary wear on the trigger and hammer pin holes. Even with the blowback 9mm's you can have the bolt ramped to 5.56 angle specs to avoid such a problem. It's easier to avoid a problem like that than it is to fix it once you screw up too bad...
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Old March 8, 2008, 04:16 PM   #3
Legion2600
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I went with a RR Uzi first then AC556, then rDIAS.

The Uzi is built like a tank and will last forever. MIllions produced and is combat proven. Simple design and lots of parts around. Various caliber conversions available. Vector are THE Uzi wizards and can fix, restore/repair just about anything Uzi you can think of.

AC556 - Neat gun, especially with the SCAR stock that is available. What I dont like is you have to send it to Ruger to get fixed. Also, lack of hi cap factory mags and the ones that are out there are limited to 20 rounds. However, heavy barrel options and accuracy tuning are out there.

rDIAS -- my favorite. can drop into any host you want. Any caliber, any configuration you can dream of. Not to mention the beltfed XMG upper from BRPGUNS.
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Old March 8, 2008, 05:08 PM   #4
Iamwhoiam
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Well then what is the difference from a registered M16 lower and a DIAS any ways? I thought that DIAS were only for HKs.

It seems like I should just get the UZI and the M16 and be done with it.

Maybe a MAC later on.
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Old March 8, 2008, 05:28 PM   #5
guntotin_fool
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GET The ACC. Ruger fixes them under their cost, so if the things wears out, you can keep it going, NO other gun to my knowledge in the Class 3 field comes with such a deal.



Set up a trust, understand the rules, and follow the law.

TRusts have a lot of benefits over single private ownership. see a COMPETENT NFA trust attorney. ASK do you deal with NFA trusts, if they go blank or hem and haw, find another. ITs cheap to do once its set up


Google Atty Goldman in Florida, he does a lot of this and has other state connections.
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Old March 8, 2008, 05:31 PM   #6
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forgot to add, then buy a thompson, your not a real class 3 owner till you have one.
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Old March 8, 2008, 05:58 PM   #7
ibfestus
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No doubt in my ex-military mind...

A registered/transferrable M-16 is the most flexible, most useful, most durable, investment you can make.

Unless there are unbelievable changes in the NFA, they will continue to appreciate in value just as they done in the past 20 years. In 1988 I made a huge financial mistake. I only bought 1 H&R M-16A1 registered lower, I was hesitant to spend $1250 for a reweld. Had I been even a little smart, I would have bought 10!
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Old March 8, 2008, 06:30 PM   #8
Legion2600
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Quote:
..Well then what is the difference from a registered M16 lower and a DIAS any ways? I thought that DIAS were only for HKs...
The difference is that an M-16 RR is exactly that -- the entire lower receiver. Either a factory Colt or some other AR receiver with the auto sear pin holes drilled out and M-16 fire control group.

The rDIAS is a little aluminum or steel sort of "C" shaped device that utilizes an AR receiver and M-16 fire control parts with the exception of the factory auto sear. The rDIAS is the machinegun. You can trash as many uppers and lowers as you want and when you are done just drop the rDIAS into another cheap host gun.

You dont have to worry about egging out any holes with a rDIAS like you would with a registered receiver.
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Old March 8, 2008, 07:14 PM   #9
Hkmp5sd
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Go with the M16

Not that I'm biased or anything.



Ciener makes a .22LR conversion for the M16 so you can do .22LRs on full auto or buy the upper conversion(s) of your choice.
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Old March 10, 2008, 07:27 PM   #10
douglasschuckert
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Which basic NFA rifles and smgs have the stamina to theoretically last an eternity?

All of them, if you take care of them.

I'm thinking a good combination would be the:
AC556 and UZI carbine and maybe a MAC 10

or

M16 and UZI

What would you prescribe for versatility?

M16 & Uzi or M16 & MAC 10

Can an M16 receiver legally use 6.8 and 9mm uppers? or even .22s?

YES... No additional paperwork required.

Can any of these be fitted with a suppressor and how much more paperwork is involved?

All of them can be fitted with a suppressor. Paperwork is just an additional ATF Form 5320.4 (Form 4) and $200.00 txfer tax. Thats all. They can be moved between ANY other same caliber weapon with NO legal issues.

I was thinking that the AC556 would be a good choice since they are not as much in price, have customer service, and steel receivers.

YES. It is a GREAT choice. The only thing is they (as the Mini-14) only like Ruger Factory Mags. The 30 rounders will cost you about $120+ per mag. Other than that they are incredable!

The M16 receiver leaves me thinking since being aluminum it would easily go sour after a while.

You are talking about aircraft grade stuff. Its VERY TOUGH! You will not wear it out. They have pin-tie-in devices called KNS Anti-walk pins that will keep the sear pin from overlarging its hole (this isn't a problem in all actuality unless you shoot hundreds of thousands of rounds. The other pins are NO PROBLEM. If they do warp somehow you can contact a competent C2 SOT and have the holes welded closed and re-drilled, but with 100% certanty, you will never have to do that.

Does the receiver actually take any abuse for firing considering the nature of the AR system?

Not really any. You WON'T ever shoot it out.

I hear nothing but good things about the UZI however and am pretty set on this one. I have actually shot one on full auto two times and was impressed completely.

YUP! Great gun. You wont be sorry!

For UZIs should I get a registered gun, bolt, or trigger pack?

Registered Receiver. IMI makes a GREAT one, but look for a Vector. The bolt guns are ok, but when the bolt gets worn out, your SOL.

I know this is alot to ask and I appreciate your patience.

Our pleasure! :-)
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Old March 17, 2008, 04:04 AM   #11
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20,000 bucks dont last long when you start talking FA weapons....i think i saw someone pay just north of 20 grand for ONE mp-5.....
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Old March 17, 2008, 04:38 AM   #12
hoytinak
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Quote:
The versatility of different uppers and calibers just cannot be ignored.
This is the very same reason I went with the M16 as well. Think I'm going with a UMP for the next one though.

As others have stated, with proper maintance any will last a lifetime. I'm sure you'll enjoy whatever you get.
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Old March 21, 2008, 12:27 AM   #13
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so how much is an m16 FA lower??? just curious ya know.....
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Old March 21, 2008, 12:54 AM   #14
9mmkungfu
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I saw one today for $9k.
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Old March 21, 2008, 07:46 PM   #15
douglasschuckert
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If you're looking for a quality lower like the Colts or Bushmasters then you're going to pay in the upwards of 13k for JUST THE LOWER (13k is almost at steal for one)..

You can find the crappier Frankfort Arsenal’s and Oly Arms lowers typically in the 9:10k range.
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Old March 21, 2008, 08:19 PM   #16
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Quote:
You can find the crappier Frankfort Arsenal’s and Oly Arms lowers typically in the 9:10k range.
I wouldn't call either of those particularly crappy. The Oly/PAWS lowers are actually very nice. The Frankforts and Oly's you have to be careful with are the ones that are "kitchen table" conversions. There is a thread about one on another board right now where the sear pin hole is extremely high on the receiver and in danger of busting out the top.

I got a hell of a deal on my Sendra and while the outside finish is not the best, it runs like a top and is very mechanically sound. If you really want to pony up the $$ for a Colt, I won't even give you a good reason not to. But if you want a good shooter, and you know what to look for and how to look at a specimen, there are some very good deals to be had on the "crappy" Oly's Frankforts, Sendras, Groups and others.

I learned a lot about them when shopping for mine. Right now, the MG market has stagnated quite a bit and there are some smokin' deals to be had. I would almost guarantee that if you posted a WTB ad on Subguns and/or Sturm. for a RR M16 and you said that you had $8k cash on hand, you would get some bites in a very short time.
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Old March 22, 2008, 07:15 PM   #17
douglasschuckert
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Thanks for the edumacation bro!

I've seen SEVERAL 'kitchen table' conversions that you are talking about. I've even seen some Colt's that had the sear pin set to high as well. Granted they were all SP1 conversions.

You're not joking at all about the market being stagnated. The past 3 years prices have just about hovered (in the same general ball park at least). When I was first thinking about getting into a MG, my wife and I had sold our house, so I was thinking about getting an MP5 or an M16. There was a 3-pin R/R RTDS-MP5-SD6 that the dood wanted 18k for, and thats just about what I can still get the same gun for now (and that was about 3 years ago).. The MP5-SD and A Frankfort Ars. M16 with the triangle 20" upper, a 6" .22 upper and a 14.5" M4 upper and a crap ton of mags at $10k flat, had me torn... My wife ended up convincing me not to buy either...damn it... So last year I told her that a SMG was in our future, so she let me get a MAC 10/45. She doesn't know about the Colt M16 Im thinking about buying.. Nor will she until she opens the safe one day and see's it :-)...

When it comes to M16's..... Nothing speaks as loud as a Colt lower. Although at this point in time, I would KILL for a Sendra lower! :-)
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Old March 22, 2008, 08:00 PM   #18
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Quote:
Although at this point in time, I would KILL for a Sendra lower! :-)
Are you threatening me...
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Old March 23, 2008, 07:21 PM   #19
douglasschuckert
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Am I trying to threaten you? Absolutely! So....uuuhhh....where you live again??

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http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!
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Old March 23, 2008, 07:24 PM   #20
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Mine's the house with the Oerlikon on the roof...
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Old March 24, 2008, 05:40 PM   #21
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There's really no need (other than cool factor, of course) to buy an Uzi and a MAC variant. Richard Lage makes an upper that puts the MAC guns in a class above the Uzi. I had an Uzi for a while and I much prefer my Lage Max-11.

If it were me, I'd get the MAC (I went with the M11/9) and the M16 then spend the rest on ammo.
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Old March 24, 2008, 08:13 PM   #22
douglasschuckert
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VUPDBlue: Man I wish I could shoot with ya.
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http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!
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Old March 24, 2008, 08:41 PM   #23
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Maybe I'll make it to the creek in October...maybe...
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Old March 27, 2008, 02:13 PM   #24
douglasschuckert
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Well.. I'll be back State-side in October, but the birth of my little girl (hopefully a girl) will more-than-likely circumvent any tranvel to KY.. Unfortunetly. WHen I get back home full time, the Shot Show, Knob Creek, and the UziTalk Shoot will be at the top of my list.
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http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Fe...d.aspx?id=2668 - HR 1022 Assault Weapons Ban & Law Enforcement Protection Act (2007) http://www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/409898348 - Online Petition against! DO YOUR PART, WRITE YOUR DAMN REP, and DEMAND VETO!
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Old March 27, 2008, 04:50 PM   #25
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Believe me, you will enjoy that little girl way more than any NFA toys...but you better start building her a little pink .22 SBR'd AR just in case...
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