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Old March 8, 2008, 01:06 PM   #1
TexasSeaRay
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A public apology to Massad Ayoob.

A few days ago, I partook in a discussion involving the issue of handloads/reloads and their legal defensibility in the event that they should ever have to be used in an actual self-defense shooting.

Another poster mentioned Mas Ayoob's testimony and views in regards to this issue. I stated that "I had no use for (Mr.) Ayoob's views because of some BS he pulled on a sister agency during a trial."

Mr. Ayoob PM'd me and inquired as to the nature of the event. I will not disclose the event--Mr. Ayoob can if he so desires, but I would suspect that can of worms is best left in the history pile.

After a polite and professional discussion, Mr. Ayoob disclosed his nature of involvement in this case. His version of events parallels to a "T" the recollections of a longtime friend, going all the way to basic training, who I talked with this morning and who is still an FBI agent today.

I very much regret allowing myself to believe the innuendo and gossip that is often times all too prevelant in the law enforcement community rather than seeking the facts, as every person who has ever pinned on a badge and sworn the oath was trained to do.

This case and Mr. Ayoob's involvement in it was the only issue I had brief with regarding Mas Ayoob. I have always respected his dedication to the shooter, the training and safety and preparedness of our law enforcement community, and his professionalism in dealing with criticism.

And while I had disagreement with Mr. Ayoob because of my erroneous perception, it did not stop me from recommending his readings and seminars to those who I felt would benefit from partaking in them.

Mr. Ayoob, I am appreciative and grateful for you taking the time to visit with me on this issue--which, as you know better than anyone, goes back almost thirty years. I have long since left the business, but this is a nice thorn that I can now remove from my backside. I sincerely apologize for offering an opinion not based in firsthand knowledge, but rather in squadroom bitch sessions. Your professional, polite and patient explanation of your involvement has earned my respect. I wish you all the best, and thank you for all you've done for our community.

With best regards,

Jeff
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Last edited by TexasSeaRay; March 8, 2008 at 02:05 PM.
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Old March 8, 2008, 02:14 PM   #2
Mas Ayoob
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Apology respectfully accepted, Jeff.

You're a man.

Best,
Mas
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Old March 8, 2008, 10:53 PM   #3
FM12
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I've learned a great deal from Mas Ayoob's books, articles and videos over the years.

Glad the record is set straight.
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Old March 8, 2008, 11:33 PM   #4
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From what I've seen of Mr Ayoob's participation on this and other forums, he is an upright and honorable man, prone to forthright discussion without any need for urination contests or chest-pounding...

Just another reason I really enjoy TFL and THR.
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Old March 9, 2008, 12:03 AM   #5
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I am a fan of Massad Ayoob. When he talks, I pay attention.
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Old March 9, 2008, 12:06 AM   #6
FM12
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TexasSeaRay is no slouch when it comes to advice either. He's not a WWW/forum Ninja, He's been there and done that, way more than most of us.

This is a great place to learn. Thanks to all of you who have helped me.

FM12
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Old March 9, 2008, 12:40 AM   #7
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It's my experience that the only sure way to help prevent the next error in judgment is to rectify the last with an apology. Well done, TexasSeaRay, well done !

- regards
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Old March 9, 2008, 06:21 AM   #8
Freakdaddy
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Jeff,

It takes a big man to admit when he's wrong and an even bigger man to do it publicly. Well done.
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Old March 9, 2008, 10:59 AM   #9
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Well done, both of you. A fine example to all of a sincere apology, and a gracious acceptance.
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Old March 9, 2008, 12:41 PM   #10
Charles S
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Quote:
It's my experience that the only sure way to help prevent the next error in judgment is to rectify the last with an apology. Well done, TexasSeaRay, well done !
Agreed.
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Old March 9, 2008, 12:51 PM   #11
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When men resolve a perceived difference in the manner of gentlemen it serves as an example to us all, and makes the world just that much better of a place in which to live ...
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Old March 9, 2008, 03:35 PM   #12
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Well said and handled.

jw
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Old March 9, 2008, 06:39 PM   #13
James K
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I wish all those who have attacked Mr. Ayoob were so willing to admit error.

On several occasions, I have quoted Mr. Ayoob, or expressed agreement with his views, and have been flamed for daring to even mention his name. Doesn't bother me, but I have always wondered how he likes getting blasted by some of those id..., sorry, people of lesser experience.

Jim
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Old March 9, 2008, 07:33 PM   #14
Scattergun Bob
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Mas and having to defend himself

Jeff,

Thanks a lot for your post. I have over the years read most of what Mas had written. I sure don't need to defend him, what is important is that you are correct about LE and gossip. Mas is what he is, a dedicated trainer and a scholar in the self defence business. Many question that he is a reserve or that he hasn't taken a life. My response is always the same, "well, Ed McGivern never killed anyone, but would you like to shoot against him!" To the uninformed this usually goes over their heads.

I judge all classes, training and trainers by one standard, "will what I am learning help me win the next fight."

I will personally prove that what I am learning works for me.

I understand that no one but myself will be there to extract my butt from a situation where what I learned does not work.

And finally, IF IT SEEMS STUPID, BUT IT WORKS, IT ISN'T STUPID USE IT!
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Old March 9, 2008, 09:19 PM   #15
akr
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Jim Keenan---

I believe those that disagree with Mr. Ayoob in a rude way are probably a little bit jealous of his knowledge.
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Old March 9, 2008, 09:34 PM   #16
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I love to read a thread like this. As I have recently found myself on the side of a "virtual" beatdown for incorrect information posted about me and my company, it gives me faith in the on-line community when someone can admit a mistake and the other party will happily accept the apology!


I think it is pretty ridiculous to think that we will agree with everything Mas (or any other professional for that matter) says about every issue or situation. I do honestly believe that he has our community's best interests at heart.
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Old March 9, 2008, 10:36 PM   #17
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TexasSeaRay, it is a post like yours which makes me realize the caliber of people we have here. It never tastes good to have to eat one's own words, I know I have done so, and volunteering to do so when you know it is right says more about your character than any amount of posts on the proper bullet or firearm.
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Old March 9, 2008, 10:45 PM   #18
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Awwww, shucks...I was hoping to see a showdown at High Noon!!

Just kidding, glad you guys worked it out. Man, no one gets blamed more than me for stuff that I didn't do, and it sucks, but I have just learned to accept it, but I know how bad it sux.
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Old March 10, 2008, 04:12 PM   #19
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Well,

That's about as perfect a resolution to a misunderstanding I've ever read...


Jesse
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Old March 11, 2008, 09:36 AM   #20
Spenser
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That really showed a lot of character. Thanks for being a gentleman. It's great to see little reminders pop up in one's daily life about how we should conduct ourselves. Not just on an internet forum, but life in general.

It's a great example for everyone.
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Old March 11, 2008, 09:52 AM   #21
buzz_knox
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Quote:
That really showed a lot of character. Thanks for being a gentleman. It's great to see little reminders pop up in one's daily life about how we should conduct ourselves. Not just on an internet forum, but life in general.

It's a great example for everyone.
I agree wholeheartedly. I also believes this incident is an example of how the internet allows incredible opportunities for lies to be spread (even unintentionally) but also for the truth to be told.

Most of the character assassinations that have taken the place for debate these days are based on these kind of half-truths or outright lies. Few have such dignified endings.
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Old March 11, 2008, 10:30 AM   #22
Laserlips
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Crap..

I like the apology AND the acceptance of that apology so much I think I'll just type those posts out and duct tape them to the top of my monitor..

Seems I spend an inordinate amount of time apologizing and a much lesser time accepting apology's online so it'll make it real easy from here on out..

I'll just look up at the top of the monitor and type out whichever response is appropriate...

jesse
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Old March 21, 2008, 10:07 AM   #23
akr
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He he he
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Old March 21, 2008, 11:04 AM   #24
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Create a word document that you always leave open... Copy and paste I'm Sorry's all over the place!! Yuk yuk yuk
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Old March 21, 2008, 11:18 AM   #25
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Posts like this one separate this forum from the others. I prefer to think of this as a gentleman's forum. This was an applaudable exercise in professionalism.
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