The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old March 7, 2008, 04:15 PM   #1
kevinwas
Junior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 14
.44 mag or .454 Casull ?

Whats the difference between both of these two calibers? .44Mag and .454 casull?
kevinwas is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 04:23 PM   #2
grymster2007
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 22, 2007
Location: In the oak studded hills near Napa
Posts: 2,203
Short answer:

While the 44 magnum is no slouch and a very powerful cartridge, the 454 is a lot more powerful. You lookin' to shoot BIG, DANGEROUS animals?
__________________
grym
grymster2007 is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 04:40 PM   #3
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,962
The .44 Magnum is a cartridge based on the old .44 Special. It throws a heavy bullet very fast, and was designed to kill big game reliably with a pistol round.

Some time in the '70s or '80s, deer apparently started taking 'roids and black bear took to wearing kevlar, so...

The .454 Casull is a cartridge based on the old .45 Colt. It throws a heavier bullet even faster, and was designed to kill big game reliably with a pistol round.



(Or maybe someone just wanted a pistol that was more powerful than his buddy's .44 Mag... )
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 04:43 PM   #4
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
My experience with them is...

.44mag=Fun to shoot and more likely to travel accurately to the target and easy to get off a second accurate shot.

.454casull=Not fun to shoot and hard to keep on target or get a quick follow up shot.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 05:10 PM   #5
Deegle
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 251
Only the 44 mag. can blow one's head "clean off."
__________________
"The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference - they deserve a place of honor with all that's good." George Washington
Deegle is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 05:26 PM   #6
davlandrum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Lane County Oregon
Posts: 2,547
Shooting .454 in my SW .460 is not fun. It has a lot more snappy recoil (not sure how to explain it clearly) while .460 is much easier to control.


Quote:
Only the 44 mag. can blow one's head "clean off."
That was because they didn't have the .454, the .460, or the .500 back in Dirty Harry's day.

I bet when they do a remake (and you know they will), he is carry something bigger than a .44 Mag
__________________
U.S Army, Retired

Ethics is knowing the difference between what you have a right to do and what is right to do. -Potter Stewart
davlandrum is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 05:47 PM   #7
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Bad controllability of the .454 is a myth. I am a pretty avarage framed guy (6.1'' 212lbs) and with 300 grainers @ 1500 fp/s its a breeze to shoot, not to mention how easy it is to shoot the standart 260 @ 1600. Thatsd out of a Ruger Super Redhawk wit 6.5'' barrel.
You can make very fast accurate shots with it, you just have to NOT use the ''let the muzzle rise technique'' its too loose for that recoil. If you lock up your elbows and your shoulders it recoils straight back and the muzzle only raises approx. 5 in and you ( I ) can shoot all six cartridges in six seconds accurately.

My .500 S&W 4'' with 450 grainers @ 1500 is WAY worse than any big bore handgun I ever shot before. Anything over 550 grains @ 1400 in that thing is very uncomfortably...
Moloch is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 06:05 PM   #8
The Tourist
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 20, 2005
Posts: 2,348
I have a Smith 629-5 with a lug barrel, and frankly I don't need anything more at this time.

Having said that, and if the .454 would have been around for metallic silhuettes, I would have gotten a Casull, and then loaded .45 Colt reloads for plinking.

All considered, I'm doing that idea now.
The Tourist is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 06:14 PM   #9
jcadwell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2006
Posts: 166
The 44 magnum has about 1000 ft-lbs of energy. Chamber pressure tops out around 38000 CUP. Hot loads can get you 1200 ft-lbs of energy.

The 454 has almost 2000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Chamber pressure tops out around 60000 CUP.

Almost twice the pressure gives you much more energy and faster bullets, regardless of weight.

I really enjoy my Super Redhawk in 454/45 Colt. I shoot 45 Colt loads through it most of the time, but when hunting season rolls around there isn't much you can't kill with the Casull.
jcadwell is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 06:24 PM   #10
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Giraffes and Elephants have been killed by the .454 casull! What do you need more?
Moloch is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 06:40 PM   #11
jcadwell
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 13, 2006
Posts: 166
Blue Whale?
jcadwell is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 06:59 PM   #12
Moloch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 27, 2005
Posts: 1,304
Quote:
Blue Whale?
Shooting under water with 60000cup and a barrel full of water? The blast and shrapnel may kill a blue whale but.....
Moloch is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 07:12 PM   #13
CraigC
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2001
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 4,300
Quote:
That was because they didn't have the .454, the .460, or the .500 back in Dirty Harry's day.
Actually Dick Casull developed the .454 back in the `60's. It's been throttled back from his humble beginnings, 260's@2000fps in .45Colt brass.
CraigC is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 07:21 PM   #14
Socrates
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 5, 2005
Location: East Bay NorCal, People's Republik of Kalifornia
Posts: 5,866
Quote:
The 44 magnum has about 1000 ft-lbs of energy. Chamber pressure tops out around 38000 CUP. Hot loads can get you 1200 ft-lbs of energy.

The 454 has almost 2000 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Chamber pressure tops out around 60000 CUP.
That's pretty much the essence of it. Just like rifles, when pressures get that high the increase in velocity isn't worth the additional bullet velocity. Point of diminishing returns.


From buffalobore.com:
Quote:
The .454 Casull is one cartridge that BBA does not load to it's full pressure limit. When loaded to it's full pressure potential the .454 Casull can become unreliable and unpleasant to shoot. At upper pressure levels, heavy bullets tend to jump crimp - tying up the cylinder. (wouldn't this be great in an emergency) Also, fired brass can stick in the chambers. BBA feels that a 360 gr. bullet (or 325 gr. bullet at 1525 fps) at 1425 fps is still very powerful, comfortable to shoot, and TOTALLY RELIABLE. At these levels, these bullets give up nothing in killing performance.
It is possible to get too much of a good thing...

.44 magnum can't really use bullets in the 345-360 range, and, the .454 can, and shines with them.
Socrates is offline  
Old March 7, 2008, 07:25 PM   #15
Playboypenguin
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2006
Location: Great Pacific Northwest
Posts: 11,515
Quote:
Bad controllability of the .454 is a myth
No, it is not a myth. I myself cannot fire a .454casull as quickly and as well as a .44mag and neither can anyone I know. Plus, scientifically speaking, the added pressure and speed would require more effort to control therefore making it less controllable. So it is not a myth. It is a fact for a great many people.

If you shoot your .454casull just as good as your .44mag maybe it is not because you shoot just as well with the .454 but instead because you shoot your .44mag just as poorly.
Playboypenguin is offline  
Old March 8, 2008, 12:02 AM   #16
ghalleen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2007
Location: Oregon
Posts: 466
Quote:
No, it is not a myth. I myself cannot fire a .454casull as quickly and as well as a .44mag and neither can anyone I know. Plus, scientifically speaking, the added pressure and speed would require more effort to control therefore making it less controllable. So it is not a myth. It is a fact for a great many people.

If you shoot your .454casull just as good as your .44mag maybe it is not because you shoot just as well with the .454 but instead because you shoot your .44mag just as poorly.
It depends a LOT on the handgun you're shooting it from.

My Raging Bull has very mild recoil, even with .454 casull. It almost seems like some of my smaller .45 acp handguns have worse recoil. Of course, the Raging Bull has a longer barrel, is vented, and weighs quite a bit more...
ghalleen is offline  
Old March 8, 2008, 12:10 AM   #17
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 18,559
Quote:
Shooting .454 in my SW .460 is not fun. It has a lot more snappy recoil (not sure how to explain it clearly) while .460 is much easier to control.
The .454 doesn't generate enough gas to properly work the compensator/muzzle brake.
Quote:
the Raging Bull has a longer barrel, is vented, and weighs quite a bit more
The latter two have the effect of reducing recoil.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old March 8, 2008, 12:21 PM   #18
crasha51pan
Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2007
Posts: 38
44 can match the 454

If you want the same stopping power as the 454 from a 44 Mag., shoot the Garrett 330 gr. +P Hammerhead. These rounds deliver the same punch as the 454 but with less chamber pressure. They will penetrate the skull of a charging Grizzly and continue in as far as the bears hips, breaking bone along the way. These rounds are "Not Fun" to shoot but if you are in G-Bear territory, it's a nice feeling to know that you have a round that can handle that size animal. Noted to be "The most powerful 44 Mag. round, in the world". Note, only a few handguns can handle this ammo (Ruger Redhawk being one)....
crasha51pan is offline  
Old March 8, 2008, 10:45 PM   #19
laytonj1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2005
Location: Alabama
Posts: 3,501
Quote:
If you want the same stopping power as the 454 from a 44 Mag., shoot the Garrett 330 gr. +P Hammerhead. These rounds deliver the same punch as the 454 but with less chamber pressure.
Not true.
Garrett list the 44mag 330gr hammerhead at 1400fps and 43,500 CUP.
Hodgdon list a 335gr 454 at 1531fps at 41,600 CUP. And that's way under it's 55,000 CUP maximum.
The 454 will always exceed the 44 mag by virtue of having far greater case capacity combined with a higher pressure ceiling.
And I own both calibers and like them both a lot.

Jim
laytonj1 is offline  
Old March 9, 2008, 12:49 AM   #20
Ultima-Ratio
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 227
Sad When Folks Quote Marketing Ads As Gospel-

Anywho-


Quote:
Shooting .454 in my SW .460 is not fun. It has a lot more snappy recoil (not sure how to explain it clearly) while .460 is much easier to control.
The .454 doesn't generate enough gas to properly work the compensator/muzzle brake.
Quote:
the Raging Bull has a longer barrel, is vented, and weighs quite a bit more
The latter two have the effect of reducing recoil.

Hiya John!

I'd SWAG that most 454 Casull ammo has heavier bullets causing the added recoil since the 460 mostly uses a 200gner. BTW, my hand loaded 410 gn LBT LFNs clock a bit over 1600fps from the Smith 460 using FA Casull brass!

Also for everyone here, if I have one more noob come into the store demanding .454 bullets or .460 bullets for reloading and I gotta argue with them!
It does seem like a picky point asking for people to use the proper decimal placement or lack there of but do ya see my point?
__________________
Ultima-Ratio is offline  
Old March 9, 2008, 01:09 AM   #21
tyrajam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 24, 2007
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 467
All I own is a .44, and the only time I shot a 454 I thought it was going to break my wrist...that said, if I was buying today I would DEFINATELY BUY THE 454 because I could shoot 45 LC (easier than a 44 mag) for fun and load up 454's when I was going after something bigger than paper. How can you not love that??
tyrajam is offline  
Old March 9, 2008, 08:08 AM   #22
Tamara
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: March 11, 2000
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 15,962
Ultima-Ratio

The Raging Bull uses simple ports, while the 460XVR has an expansion chamber compensator; the two function somewhat differently.

I'm sure you knew that, but I thought I'd explain it for bystanders.
__________________
MOLON LABE!
2% Unobtainium, 98% Hypetanium.
The Arms Room: An Online Museum.
Tamara is offline  
Old March 9, 2008, 08:25 AM   #23
gordo_gun_guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 31, 2007
Posts: 250
do you shoot cowboy?

If you already stock 45 Colt ammo for cowboy action of nostalgia purposes, get the .454. If you collect .44s, go that route.

There's no question the .454 is more powerful than the .44, but I think both are more than enough gun for mere mortals.
__________________
Gordo
In need of a new pithy quote....
gordo_gun_guy is offline  
Old March 9, 2008, 10:04 AM   #24
crasha51pan
Member
 
Join Date: January 16, 2007
Posts: 38
Jim,

"The same" was a bad choice of words on my part. What I was trying to say was , that "if you are shooting a 44 Mag." and you want to step into "the range" of the 454, then you are going to have to chamber the 330 gr. Hammerhead. Again, only a few gun manufactures make a 44 Mag. that can chamber the Hammerhead...

Better ????
crasha51pan is offline  
Old March 9, 2008, 10:27 AM   #25
22-rimfire
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2005
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 4,636
You used to shooting the big boys? 454 Casull? Go for it! We'll probably see another used gun on the maket in about 6 months with one box of ammo through it.
22-rimfire is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13268 seconds with 7 queries