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Old February 24, 2008, 02:29 PM   #1
DAREFF
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S&W 460XVR Injury

> Anyone heard of this type of injury with big caliber, 460 500, 480, revolvers before....?


There are good reasons why people take gun training/safety courses. If
> you have a weak stomach this might not be for you.
>
> ***WARNING GRAPHIC WARNING GRAPHIC WARNING GRAPHIC***
>

> This is how it was done:
>
> http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c3...R/image002.jpg
>
> This is what got done:
>
> http://www.rx7club.com/showpost.php?...0&postcount=54
>
> Copied Narrative from an AR-15 forum:
>
> How NOT to hold a revolver!
> A St. Louis, Missouri guy on my AR-15 forum had a bad accident with his
> S&W 460XVR Magnum yesterday. He was shooting with a two handed hold and
> got his left thumb up near the lower front of the cylinder. The normal
> (powerful) gasses blowing out at the barrel/cylinder gap ripped the top
> of his left thumb off. I've added some of his posts & some pics.
>
> S&W 460XVR Magnum
> 460XVR blew my thumb off today!
> No joke, about 1/2 of my left thumb is gone ... what's left is a
> friggin mess.
>
> It's pretty hard to type, and I'm only posting because you never know,
> it might save somebody else a thumb. I was using a 2-handed grip, fired
> off a Cor-Bon DPX .460 and the blast came violently out the side of the
> gun.
> At first my thumb was so covered in blood that I couldn't see how bad
> it was ... and I was full of adrenaline and felt no pain. And honestly
> it looked really bad, my whole hand was covered in blood and it was
> kinda gushing.
>
> The blown-off thumb was on my support hand. I'll re-create the grip
> tomorrow to see where my thumb was, but it's not like I didn't already
> know not to get any body part near the cylinder gap. And even if I
> totally screwed up and did, taking my thumb clean off seems a bit
> excessive?
> Just be careful with those 460's. That case operates at such high
> pressure, it's just asking for trouble.
>
> BTW, I bought my 460 new and had exactly 12 rounds through it. Info
> about the gun, it's a full-size 460 with the 8 3/4' barrel and factory
> installed compensator. It's one of the Whitetails Unlimited models.
> Ammo was 200gr Cor-Bon DPX.
>
> The gun only had 12 or 13 rounds of the Cor-Bon through it, and 10 .45
> Long Colt rounds through it. So it was essentially still brand new.
> Saw a hand specialist while there today. Lots of ways to try and save
> what's left, but first I just have to hope it doesn't get infected in
> the next few days ... then surgery early next week.
> The hand specialist I spent a few hours with last night said that in
> gunshot wounds there is always a lot more damage than is first visible
> ... same with things like fireworks going off in your hand. A lot more
> flesh around the wound is dead, and will rot and fall off over the next
> couple days. That's why it's so important to keep clean, and that's
> also why they can't do surgery now. If they wrapped new skin over dead
> skin it would just puss out, possibly turn gang-green, and they'd have
> to start all over again.
> This is an example of how he was holding his revolver.
> Wrong, wrong, wrong!
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Old February 24, 2008, 05:09 PM   #2
Casimer
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Ouchy - that's pretty severe.

Am I reading his statement incorrectly, or does he seem to think that the injury is somehow the gun a/o ammo's fault?

e.g.
Quote:
I'll re-create the grip
> tomorrow to see where my thumb was, but it's not like I didn't already
> know not to get any body part near the cylinder gap. And even if I
> totally screwed up and did, taking my thumb clean off seems a bit
> excessive?
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Old February 24, 2008, 05:39 PM   #3
C Philip
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The closest I've seen is someone at the range get a little burn due to having their thumb like that on a .38 special, but this is quite the injury.
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Old February 24, 2008, 06:58 PM   #4
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So, uh... how much does he want for the revolver?
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Old February 24, 2008, 09:31 PM   #5
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He isn't selling the gun. I wondered that myself.

I mentioned this to the guys at the gun shop I frequent, and they told me that they sold him the gun! Apparently I had seen that gun in the case, and the guy had just mounted a scope to it, and changed his grip to support it better. Oops. He had been in, and the guys had seen the bandages.
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Old February 24, 2008, 09:36 PM   #6
B.N.Real
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That is terrible!

With a gun this heavy that kind of hold is'nt that far out of the ordinary.

S&W would be wise to tell users of this pistol to not use that kind of hold on their super caliber handguns.

Poor fella.

Dern man,glad I did'nt eat dinner before I saw that.
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Old February 25, 2008, 09:35 AM   #7
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460 thumb

Why are you talking about cylinder gap injury from a 460 but showing pics of a 500??? and yes when you have a revolver pushing a 200 gr bullet out past 2300 fps the flash and metal spray from the cylinder gap is like a plasma cutter in force - try this- fasten a piece of card board next to the side (say 1 inch) (wear gloves) of a 44 mag or a 357 mag or even the gun being spoken of here and fire a full house factory mag through it and then look at it bet you see a line of holes (lead or jacket shavings) and a nice carbon flash line burnt in it. And I say wear gloves in case the lead or jacket spray spatters back off of the cardboard
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Old February 25, 2008, 10:50 AM   #8
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Similar thing happened to my index finger from XVR blast. I forgot and was guiding like I do with the T/C and made hamburger out of my left pointer. Won't do that again!
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Old February 25, 2008, 10:57 AM   #9
Desert01
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I got off easy with some burns from my .357 Dan Wesson. Growing up on auto's I was used to wrapping my support hand index finger aroung the trigger guard. After burning my finger a few times I had "re-learn" how to hold a pistol.
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Old February 25, 2008, 10:58 AM   #10
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This is old news

This same post has been circulating for a few weeks, maybe even a month or so. The bottom line is any revolver will allow hot gases to escape by the cylinder gap and you should never have your hand near the gap when shooting. This shooter was very inexperienced and made an error that he wont forget. He will heal up fine from what I see of the photos as I treat traumatic finger injuries all of the time in the ED I work at. Seems people like to stick their fingers places they shouldn't on a regular basis. People just dont seem to understand the basics --- Reminds me of the guy I treated that wanted to sharpen his mower blades while the mower was running; thought it would be faster that way!

S&W 460V with 200 grain SST Hornady
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Old February 25, 2008, 11:14 AM   #11
vanilla_gorilla
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This post has been circulating since January 20th, when it was first posted on ARFCOM. http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=664580
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Old February 25, 2008, 11:22 AM   #12
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That's what I thought. Thanks!
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:13 PM   #13
davlandrum
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Quote:
S&W would be wise to tell users of this pistol to not use that kind of hold on their super caliber handguns.
They do, if you read the instruction manual...And the hold in the picture in the OP is completely against what is shown in the manual (as well as completly counter to common sense...)

I have maybe 200 rounds through my .460 and no problems. It is a beast, but the wieght of the gun handles it pretty well. I use my off-hand to support the butt of the grip. No way am I letting my fingers get close to that gap!!
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:31 PM   #14
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I guess I'm having trouble believing that this really happened.

If you look at the picture with the two hand hold, the tip of the thumb is well forward of the barrel cyl gap. In fact the barrel cyl gap is behind the knuckle of the thumb.

I'm sure there would be significant blast from the barrel cyl gap, but I have trouble believing it would be sufficient to cause the pictured injury.

It would be interesting to have somebody with a .460 do a couple of tests using paper, cardboard, leather in the pictured thumb position to see what kind of damage the b/c blast causes.

JMHO,

Paul
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:33 PM   #15
kayakersteve
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Come on Paul

Look at the muzzle flash in my post a few up - You just dont want to put any body part near the cylider gap. Trust me, it WILL hurt!
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:34 PM   #16
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Oh, Paul, here's a little proof

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGSExunzskg
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:37 PM   #17
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I will try and do some tests as soon as I get the chance, but I am sure someone here will beat me to it.
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:49 PM   #18
Paul105
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Still ain't buyin it with the pictured grip. I checked the location of my support index finger in relation to B/C gap on both 340 PD and 329PD -- it is directly under the B/C gap. I've shot thousands and thousands rounds thru these guns with no problems.

Now, If somehow the guy got his thumb directily in line with the barrel, snugged up to the cylinder, next to the B/C gap, like the guy on U-Tube with the hotdog -- maybe.

Would be a believer if hotdog experiment was performed with hotdog in same postion as shown in above pictured grip link.

Paul
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Old February 25, 2008, 12:56 PM   #19
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Well, you are welcome to come stick your thumb by my 460's gap. I am even an ER doc, so I can take care of you when you blow it off as long as you dont sue me!
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:00 PM   #20
Paul105
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Wasn't suggesting anyone should try it with their finger, just said, based on the grip picture, I wasn't convinced that it really happened as described. Did suggest I might be convinced with further appropriate testing. Is that at all unreasonable?

Paul
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:20 PM   #21
kayakersteve
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That's not unreasonable, but I thought the hot dog trick demonstrated well that even a 22lr can allow significant hot gasses to escape.

Have you shot a 460 or 500?? They are in a class of their own; if you haven't, you need to. I dont think you will even want to think about being near those escaping gasses. Every time I look at that picture of me shooting the 460V and the gas plume around it, I am amazed I shoot it without gloves ever!
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:34 PM   #22
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+1 to Kayaker.

My buddy and I had a range trip scheduled this last weekend, but we got there too late to shoot at the range, so we went on up the mountain so he could check it out.

I shot a cylinder of .45 colt, then let him shot the same. Then a cylinder of .454 Casull, let him do the same. Then a cylinder of .460

When I touched off the first one, my buddy freaked "Dude!! There was fire everywhere!! Dude, I could feel the blast over here!! Dude!!" ad infinitum.

I like the .460 a lot more than the .454 to shoot out of it. The .454 really snaps to me, the .460 is just a big push straight back.

It is a serious round. What I can't wrap my mind around is the .460 or the.500 in a stubby...I just can't imagine that is any fun
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:38 PM   #23
Paul105
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Haven't shot either the 460 or 500 -- almost bought a 4" 500 on several occasions -- but am basically lazy, and didn't want another caliber to reload for. One of the 329s I have has a fairly large barrel/cyl gap, and it produces an impressive fireball in low light conditions -- nothing like the 460 though.

Along with the 329s and 45 Colt, I do shoot a .475 Linebaugh 5 or 6 days a week. Howver, it only holds about half the powder of the 460/500.

Paul
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:41 PM   #24
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It's not just the powder, it's a whole different primer; uses a small rifle primer - It is like launching a missle when you shoot it. Tons of fun!. Dont be too lazy if you shoot one or it just might jump right out of your hands!
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Old February 25, 2008, 11:03 PM   #25
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Paul, just think...the .460 utilizes pressures in the neighborhood of 65K psi. The .44 Magnum doesn't even come close to that.
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