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Old February 25, 2008, 12:12 PM   #1
Jolly_Roger
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Join Date: February 25, 2008
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New Walker...with a problem

Long time lurker, first time poster. I just bought a Walker replica in the "Bargain Cave" at my local Cabela's. They said it was in the cave because it had been a display model, but the sale was "as is". It didn't appear to have any obvious mechanical problems, but it did have a significant turn line on the cylinder.

When I got it home and began to take it apart for the initial cleaning, I discovered why it had the turn line. It seems that when the hammer is first pulled back, the bolt retracts just like it's supposed to. However, when the hammer reaches half cock, the bolt snaps back into place against the cylinder. So from that point on, the bolt is dragging against the cylinder until it locks into the recess in the cylinder. So if you have the hammer at half cock and turn the cylinder to line up with the plunger, (as you would while loading) the bolt is dragging on the cylinder and making it hard to turn.

I took the gun completely apart, and I understand (I think) how it operates. I found no broken parts, but I did break the mainspring when trying to reassemble it (I guess my vice grips were a compressing the spring a little too much). Sometimes if I very slowly and carefully pull the hammer back, I can get it to half cock with the bolt still retracted. But if you pull the hammer back in a normal manner, the bolt pops out when the hammer gets to half cock. I thought about filing the hammer to shorten the half cock notch, but I'm not sure that would help. My thinking was that if the hammer reached half cock "earlier" in its rotation, the hammer end of the bolt would still be in the cam, and holding the bolt down. My other thought was that maybe I should try to build up the cam a little (maybe with JB Weld?) and then file it as necessary so the bolt stays on it a little longer.

Any suggestions anyone might have would be appreciated. Also, since I have to order a mainspring any way, I would like to order any other parts I might need at the same time. I thought about getting a new hammer and bolt, but a new hammer is about $40, and I hate to spend that amount without being sure that would fix the problem. I tried loosening the bolt/trigger spring, but really couldn't tell any difference as far as the bolt staying down like it's supposed to.

Anyway, thanks for reading this long winded post and thanks for all the useful information in this forum. I've learned a lot by reading the various posts, and they convinced me to give BP a try.
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:25 PM   #2
Raider2000
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Man I haven't had to time the bolt on a S.A. Revolver in years, but if the Cam on the Hammer is still in the nice round shape & have a slight angle from the sear teeth "of the hammer" twords the top most portion of the cam "so that when the hammer is released by the trigger it will push the bolts leg inward to pass the bolt on it's travel forward" then I would think that your hammer with the cam should be fine.

The Bolt on the other hand can be timed incorrectly when it was finished "trimming the leg a little too short" which can cause this issue.

I would buy a New Hammer & Bolt but leave the hammer in it's package so that you can return it if you do not need it, & unless you know how to do this type of smithing, I would take it to some one that can do it because if you are not careful you can ruin a new bolt, but the procedure is to have the frame in a vice so that you can work with it "but not damage the finish!" & look at the rotation of the hammer, trigger engagement, & bolt engagement, & have the bolt drop just before or just at the time the trigger engages the full ready sear on the hammer, & usually this is achieved by stoning the leg that is engaging the cam till you achieve the correct time.

Like I said I haven't had to do this in quite a few years so I'd take a decent ammount of time doing this job but if you have not done this before I would take it to some one that can.
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Old February 25, 2008, 01:36 PM   #3
mykeal
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Yeah, I agree with Raider2000. Get both a new hammer and bolt but try the new bolt first. It's most likely the bolt arm either excessively worn (it happens, sometimes the parts are a little soft) or was trimmed too much in fitting.

Hard to believe Cabela's would put a gun with a malfunctioning bolt on display...
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Old February 25, 2008, 02:09 PM   #4
sundance44s
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I bought a Cabelas display wood case 1858 Remington ...boy do they mean DISPLAY// the hammer and nipples were ruined from smacking together and most of the internals as well ...yes dry fireing is bad ....bought it off Gunbroker for 100 bucks ..not a bad deal , for a guy with a box full of spare parts .
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Old February 25, 2008, 05:09 PM   #5
Jolly_Roger
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Why does the bolt have two legs on the hammer end, when only one leg rides on the cam? Is it so the other leg rides against the frame and puts pressure on the other leg to keep it on the hammer cam? The bolt does look like it was stoned some where it protrudes up through the frame to contact the cylinder (looks like it was rubbing on the frame and was stoned on the "outside" to give it clearance), and it looks like it has rubbed the bluing off where the leg rides against the hammer, but I don't see and sign that the leg was trimmed on stoned on the end to make it shorter. I hope the relationship (length) of the frame between hammer and bolt isn't out of spec.

Again, thanks for the help, and any one else with ideas feel free to chime in.
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Old February 25, 2008, 05:49 PM   #6
mykeal
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The other leg on the bolt is indeed to provide a force to keep the other leg against the hammer. When an uninstalled bolt is viewed from 'above', the two legs should be slightly apart from parallel, or 'splayed'.

If the bolt has not been worn or trimmed, and I submit that you may not be able to tell until you compare it with a new one, then the news is bad: the cam on the hammer is somehow too small, and the $11 will probably need to be spent.
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Old February 25, 2008, 05:59 PM   #7
Jolly_Roger
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I did notice the legs were splayed on the bolt, and thought that was the reason. Glad to hear I was right about that at least. I agree that the leg of my bolt may have been trimmed, and I just can't tell by looking. A new bolt is not a problem, I'll order one (along with a new mainspring ). I would just like to avoid a new hammer. Although, I guess the best answer is to go ahead and order one now, and return it later if I don't need it.

I was really excited and ready to shoot this thing, but decided I didn't want to scratch up the cylinder any more than it was. Well, it needs to be fixed, and I might as well get it right before firing it.
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Old February 25, 2008, 09:25 PM   #8
Raider2000
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I can understand you not wanting to spend any money on something that you've yet to use but.

I still have spare parts for all of my Cap & Ball Revolvers "IE: Bolt, Hand w/ spring, Trigger, Hammer, Bolt/Trigger Spring, Main Spring" as well as a few other pieces that don't see as much abuse so unless you don't plan to shoot your fine new Walker that much eventually you may want to have a few parts on hand.

Well let me rephrase that, I may place some where around 300-400 rounds a year through any of my pieces at home & on occasion I have had over 500 through my 1860 Army where wear down & or breakage eventually can happen & I keep just a few parts on hand for when that may occur, I can spend the time to repair my revolver & have her ready for the next time I want to play with it.
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Old February 26, 2008, 12:35 PM   #9
Jolly_Roger
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I understand that parts will wear out and it is a good idea to have some spares on hand. It's just disappointing to need to replace parts that aren't worn out, just not properly fitted from the factory. And since the parts in my gun are not obviously broken or worn, I worry that new parts may not correct the problem. But, only one way to find out, I guess. I placed a parts order with Dixie this morning.
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Old February 26, 2008, 12:49 PM   #10
mykeal
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Quote:
It's just disappointing to need to replace parts that aren't worn out, just not properly fitted from the factory.
You said you bought this from Cabela's "Bargain Cave" and that it was a display model. I assume Cabela's staff is the source of the 'display model' moniker.

In no way is that gun considered factory new. Your assumption that the problems with the internal parts are due to improper factory fitting is not supportable.

As a display model, if that's truly the case, it is subject to significant abuse by both members of the shopping public and, unfortunately, retailer staff that don't know what they're doing. Further, there is no information about how long it was a 'display model' or whether it had any other abuse before entering that status.

I think your disappointment is not justified. I'm not surprised you've found problems with a 'Bargain Cave' purchase - I think you should have expected some problems.
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Old February 26, 2008, 03:52 PM   #11
Jolly_Roger
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If the nipples on this gun were damaged as a result of dry firing, I would not be surprised, as that would be common in a display item. Likewise, if there were cosmetic issues, that would be expected. But this gun shows no sign of that kind of abuse. In fact, internally it looks very good with virtually no wear on any of the internal parts. My statement that the gun was a display model was based on statements by Cabela's staff, as well as a large orange sticker on the box which read "Display".

Now it certainly may be that persons unknown held the cylinder in place while retracting the hammer, or some other type of manipulation that may have damaged the bolt and/or hammer - I don't know. What I do know is that the parts do not show any overt signs of that kind of abuse. They simply look as if they do not fit and interact exactly right.

I'm certainly not saying that this gun is a POS or that Uberti builds crap. I bought a gun that was unfired, but had been handled, probably a lot. I'm sorry you feel my opinion is not justified, but we'll just have to disagree on that point. I do appreciate all the advice on how to address the issue.
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