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Old February 4, 2008, 07:30 PM   #1
Will1234
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Dealer owned Pre-86 Samples

If a C3 dealer has a pre-86 sample and still has his SOT, could that same Pre-86 sample be transferred to a non-dealer on a form 4? Basically, is a dealer who owns a pre-86 sample able to sell it to whomever he desires assuming all NFA rules are followed? Is there a 'dealer only' type of caveat active while he has a valid SOT? Lastly, concerning dealer to dealer transfers of pre-86 samples, do the prices of these transactions compare to the same transaction between a civilian and dealer? In other words, are sales of pre items between 2 dealers done at a cheaper level than a sale to a civilian?

Thanks in advance.

Will
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Old February 4, 2008, 09:31 PM   #2
VUPDblue
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Pre samples are only for sale to dealers. They cannot be transfered to non-licensees on a Form4. Generally, pre-samples are quite a bit cheaper than transferables, unless the firearm in question is ultra-rare. For example, pre-samples of BAR's are still in the $15k range, however pre-sample MP5's are only in the $5k-7k range.
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Old February 4, 2008, 10:38 PM   #3
Will1234
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Would this be true after giving up the SOT and transferring the firearm to themselves as personal property? Isn't that the biggest difference in pre and post samples. Post have to be sold of otherwise surrendered when the SOT is terminated?
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Old February 4, 2008, 11:50 PM   #4
9mmHP
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Yes, pre-samples can be retained, post-samples would have to be transferred out. On the pre-samples next transfer though they would have to go to another dealer, not a non-dealer individual.
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Old February 5, 2008, 08:05 AM   #5
VUPDblue
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Yes, what he said. Now, I have heard of at least one case where BATFE got their panties in a bunch when someone became an SOT just to grow their own collection of pre-samples and only sold one or two items... Don't get any ideas...
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Old February 5, 2008, 11:53 AM   #6
shaggy
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Quote:
I have heard of at least one case where BATFE got their panties in a bunch when someone became an SOT just to grow their own collection of pre-samples and only sold one or two items... Don't get any ideas...
Will - this is an example of the tax evasion problem I mentioned in your other post about getting a FFL/SOT to buy samples. If there's not enough activity on the license (other than transfers to yourself) BATFE can make a case you got the license not in a bonafide attempt to do business, but rather to enhance your own collection. At the least, you'd probably lose the license, at the worst, you could possibly face charges of tax evasion.

And while the difference in prices between presamples and transferables may seem steep, its not really that much given the significantly smaller market for presamples than for transferables or C&Rs.
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Old February 5, 2008, 03:57 PM   #7
Will1234
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Thanks everyone for your input. I ask thes questions not to find a way around paying the tax or to try and find a loophole I could slip through. I am trying to understand what the rules are and how they should be interpreted. I didn't want to purchase a 10K firearm to only later find out that I could have gone to a local dealer(a friend) who could have transferred a 'keeper' after he terminated his sot.
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Old February 5, 2008, 05:52 PM   #8
VUPDblue
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Don't take this the wrong way, but you are far from the first to try and find this solution. If there were a way around paying top-dollar for a MG, then lots of people would have been doing it already.
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