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Old February 3, 2008, 04:02 AM   #1
T.A.Sharps
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Why Expensive Shotguns??

First off, I'll say I own many guns, and I believe any red, white, and blue blooded American should own a shotgun.

But for the life of me I don't understand people paying over a grand, or more for some shotguns.

I have a Rifled Rem 870 I got a few years ago, took it hunting last year, got a head shot at 75yrds, and I know it could of at 200. Thats as good as I think plastic will give you, and I didn't spend no $1000+ on it, although the ammo was close to that.

But, why buy a $1000+, smooth bore shotgun?????

Other than, its slightly better in form and function. You are still shooting the same plastic cartridge and the same pellets, or slugs, out of a smooth bore.
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Old February 3, 2008, 04:35 AM   #2
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Yes, and a Porsche still drives on the same roads as a Chevy.

For some the Chevy is all they want. That's fine too.
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Old February 3, 2008, 05:08 AM   #3
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are you talking about the skeet guns?? those 1500 dollar over/unders with engraving and all that??? apparantly you dont shoot skeet...at my first skeet shoot i used a remington 870 on the first day of a 2 day shoot, i did pretty well in scoring, shoulder was kinda sore but no big deal, the second day i used a browning citori over/under and you wouldnt believe the difference!! the way it felt in my hands, the trigger pull, it was a completly different world when i was using the over/under......if you are talking about something else now then i dont know what to tell ya....
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Old February 3, 2008, 06:06 AM   #4
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Why not have expensive shotguns to go along with expensive ammo and gas and milk and everything else? It`s just the way it is.
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Old February 3, 2008, 11:18 AM   #5
roy reali
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Re: TASharps

Another point. At the trap club I used to frequent, some of the best shooters did not use the fancy shotguns. The best trap shooter at that club used an old, beat up, field grade, 870. He could outshoot the the guys with guns that cost more then a small sedan.

I do believe that some shotgunners think that an expensive, fancy firearm can make up for any short comings in skills.
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Old February 3, 2008, 12:27 PM   #6
m24shooter
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Because they can?
Is there any reason not to if they have the means?
For some it's pride of ownership, for some it is akin to a functioning piece of art. For some it's brand recognition/status symbols.
For some it's knowing that the shotgun will absolutely work and fit.
For some it might be all they know about.
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Old February 3, 2008, 03:17 PM   #7
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And some people wouldn't go for a head shot at 75 yards. Different strokes...
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Old February 3, 2008, 03:58 PM   #8
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I have an 870, model 12, Pre-64 A5 and a Browning Citori. They are all about 400 dollars appart in value. I like them all for different reasons.

I like the nice wood finnish and the eligance of the citori. The A5 is very fast and its easy to clean. The 870 is tougg as nails, it goes everywhere i do, but its not a refined piece, it is a mass produced pump, and it serves its purpose.
The model 12 is special for other reasons.

different guns for different types.

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Old February 3, 2008, 04:12 PM   #9
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Lots of people like to impress their buddies before the shooting starts because they can't when the shooting does. It's like golf clubs or almost aything else, certain one fit individuals better. I don't like a Glock simply because it doesn't work with my short fat fingers. I have an 870, 1100, Fox SxS made in 1910 and an old single barrel 16ga that my grandfather gave me. I enjoy them all and each one has its place. I wish that I had bought that Citori back in 78 when I started to but can't afford it now.
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Old February 3, 2008, 04:22 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.A.Sharps
Why Expensive Shotguns??.....But for the life of me I don't understand people paying over a grand, or more for some shotguns.....But, why buy a $1000+, smooth bore shotgun?????
If you have to ask....I'd guess you can't afford anything better. Be happy with what you have, leave quality firearms to people who appreciate them.
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Old February 3, 2008, 04:46 PM   #11
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Whooooo.......zap!!! :barf:
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Old February 3, 2008, 05:27 PM   #12
T.A.Sharps
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Rembrandt

First of all, are you that guy everyone above has been talking about that buys a big shiney expensive shotgun so he can impress everyone before the shooting starts? Then the old salty guy shuts you up with his rusty Winchester?

Second, Rembrandt, I'll spend my extra money where it will improve ballistics, for instance a custom Benchrest rifle. That would be something I can see where the money goes.

I bet my cheap shotgun will pattern the same as yours, and shoot slugs just as far.

Really, I kind of gather that a $2000 really perty shotgun would be more to make up for about $1500 worth of the shooter's own short comings in handling the firearm.

I'd understand it more if someone just said they'd spend the extra money just because it was a cool gun.

I knew an old dude that was duck hunting with a H&R single shot, and three extra shells between his fingers, of course the hillbillies he was with gave him some sh!t. But when the birds flew he shot as fast as they did, and killed as many.
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Old February 3, 2008, 05:42 PM   #13
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Why expensive shotguns? This questions always seem to crop up on sites at some point.

I have a few questions:

1) why does it matter?

2) When I read these posts it it seems that I am one of the owners of the these "expensive" shotguns (seems that any thing over 1K is considered expensive). To me I feel that I am one of the people with a cheap shotgun. I spent 550$ on my Mossburg SR and 2500$ on my Browning. The SR lasted 1200 rounds and had 4 failures, now gone, the Browining has gone about 7000 rounds and has had no failures. It seems to me that the Browning is a better value. Why is it that there seems to be a disdain for any one with a gun worth more than 1K to purchase? (I spent as little as I could to buy a gun I felt would last me for as long as I needed and be reliable)

3) Why do folks with "cheap" shotguns feel a need to bash those with a gun worth more than there gun. I can not remember a post that is titled "Why would you by a cheap shotgun?"

I think frankly that if you stopped to talk to the folks you are shooting with then you will find they are all pretty decent guys regardless of what gun they are shooting.

I have a friend at the range I shoot with that is a semi-pro shooter who owns an expensive gun. I did not know him 2 years ago. Had I wrote him off due to the fact that he has a gun worth 10 times mine then I would not be the shooter I am today, he has helped me with all aspects of shotgunning, and shotgun fit and has been a good mentor over the last 18 months.

Maybe I am just lucky but I can not remember any time that how much someone spent on there gun has entered into some kind of judgement on the clays field. The first time I came to shoot clays I brought a 18in tactical pump shotgun and I felt out of place among all those o/u shotguns but guys immediately leaned over my shoulders and gave pointers and advice. By the end of the day I was hooked.
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Old February 3, 2008, 07:17 PM   #14
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"But for the life of me I don't understand people paying over a grand, or more for some shotguns."

A grand? I spent that much on a 9mm pocket pistol last year.

You work your way up to it if you're like me. A grand isn't even expensive as guns go these days. I don't know where expensive starts for shotguns, but it's probably in the $5k, $10k ($50k?) range.

Why spend more than the bare minimum. Some people, like me, started off 40 or 50 years ago with a borrowed .410 bolt. Then we got something else. I got a Savage .22mag/.410 O/U and then a Fox Model B 12 ga. SxS. Time passed, an 870 Express was added and a black synthetic 12 ga 1100 and then a used Win SX2 Waterfowl and a used Win SX1 field grade. Got a Guerini 28 ga. O/U from my father that's now listing for $2500+ new and that's their least expensive model. He also gave me a Win Model 37 .410 and a bunch of other guns when he moved to assisted living.

Now I'm trying to decide if I want an entry-level Guerini sporting clays gun with an MSRP of $3800 or a Beretta O/U or a Beretta clays model 391 for a grand or two. I'll figure it out, looking for the right gun is half the fun.

You know, I might just get 2 or 3. OTOH, there's an auction coming up in 3 weeks that my uncle told me about and it has a few shotguns that sound interesting. A Model 42 .410, a Model 97, 3 or 4 Model 12s, a Parker, etc.

I've been working since 1965 and full-time since '74. Should I try to die with a bunch of money in the bank like a bunch of my relatives or try to spend some of it?

I've missed shots with old, used, cheap guns and I've missed shots with new, fancy fairly costly guns. It was more fun missing with the nice guns. And they're nicer to look at while you're waiting for something to happen.

I buy what I like and enjoy them. They certainly don't make me shoot any worse.

John
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Old February 3, 2008, 07:34 PM   #15
Rembrandt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T.A.Sharps
....buys a big shiney expensive shotgun so he can impress everyone before the shooting starts?.....I kind of gather that a $2000 really perty shotgun would be more to make up for about $1500 worth of the shooter's own short comings in handling the firearm.....I'd understand it more if someone just said they'd spend the extra money just because it was a cool gun.
Those comments speak more about your buying motivation......and a lack of knowledge concerning upper end shotguns.
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Old February 3, 2008, 08:00 PM   #16
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Because they are often worth it

Quite frankly...because often they are well worth it. My main hunting gun has been an 870 wingmaster vintage 1950, smooth as silk which was my dad and will be passed to my son. I have taken ducks, geese, deer, rabbit, grouse, pheasant and a few other things not worth mentioning. However..I also shoot skeet, trap and sporting clays. My nice shinny browning GTI (dressed up citori) gained me 5 birds at sporting clays. It is a delight to shoot, swings like a dream, great follow ups on hard crossing or hare/bird combinations and has taken game in the field which includes doves, pheasant, geese and rabbits. Keep in mind T.A when I head out shooting clays I will put 200 to 300 rounds through it in a day and you really feel that in a 870 vs the browning. (by the way..when I was on top of my game my average was a 43 out of 50 in clays)
So....you have ask a good question, I would you suggest you head out to a skeet range, talk to the guys and try a few over/unders, side by sides and find out for yourself, oh...try a few top end semi's also...you may be surprised.
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Old February 3, 2008, 08:40 PM   #17
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A friend of mine came up with an answer to that very question over 40 years ago.

“There are ‘T’ shirt, Tennis shoe and Timex kinda guys and there are Rolex, Rolls Royce and Reebok kinda guys.

And just about everything in between .
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Old February 3, 2008, 10:19 PM   #18
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Going back to the first post,, this is like reverse snobbery. I have never seen a $5,000 gun that didn't look better than a Mossberg. People buy what they like, what works well for them and sure as hell don't need your permission to buy them. Holland & Holland don't need to make excuses as to why the prices. The price is what it is. If you want quality, well it costs. You willing to settle for a Mossberg as your Trap or Skeet gun, fine, it will probably break birds as well as anything, but don't look down your nose at those that like a higher class of gun. You buy what YOU can afford and there is no reason to comment on those that can afford better guns and want the quality. Understand that you don't have the money and some do. Suck it up and just shoot the birds without the B'itching
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Old February 3, 2008, 11:31 PM   #19
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Different strokes for different folks. It's all about what makes a guy feel good about his guns, and that's O.K. He pays for them. We only have to please ourselves.
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Old February 4, 2008, 11:42 AM   #20
classic095
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price

1000 for a shotgun, thats cheap, for those that are really into the shotgun sports, ie, Trap, Skeet, sporting clays and 5 stand..

A cheap gun will not last 200,000 rounds, and most cheap guns slap the hell out of the shooter in time, I noticed you said your shoulder was sore. HMMMM try shooting a good gun that wont hurt ya.. I shoot on the average of 5 rounds of Skeet a day 3 days a week, and 5 rounds of Trap every thursday, When I am done I dont even have a red mark on my shoulder. Try a browning trap or skeet gun, or my gun of choice is my tournement Trap grade Remington 1100, with change in barrels for what ever dicipline I am going to shoot..

Now some people I know paid around 25 or 30 grand for some of their shotguns, to me that is the other end of extreme,, either extremely cheap (250.00) or extremely expensive (30 grand)

I garentee ya you use a mossberg 500 for shooting trap all day, and I will use my Trap gun 1100 and you gonna hurt
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Old February 4, 2008, 12:38 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roy reali
Another point. At the trap club I used to frequent, some of the best shooters did not use the fancy shotguns. The best trap shooter at that club used an old, beat up, field grade, 870. He could outshoot the the guys with guns that cost more then a small sedan.
Well, this gets into the fundamental point here. The most important factor is the person pulling the trigger, not the shotgun itself.

If I can learn to shoot well with my $500 O/U, then step up to a nicer model, then I will shoot ever better (presumably).
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Old February 4, 2008, 01:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
I do believe that some shotgunners think that an expensive, fancy firearm can make up for any short comings in skills.
There is some definite truth there. What is not said though is that a quality, well made and fitted shotgun can help a good shooter to shoot better.

As far as the fancy engraving and hand finishing... some people choose to decorate their homes with paintings and sculptures they consider beautiful and others find such beauty in the craftsmanship of a fine firearm. Anything beyond fit and function is purely decorative, but that does not make it meaningless. Added decoration is as meaningless to the person who owns it as any other fine art.
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Old February 4, 2008, 01:51 PM   #23
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"At the trap club I used to frequent, some of the best shooters did not use the fancy shotguns."

But did they own any nice ones? Just curious.

Meanwhile, I'd love to have this F Grade Model 1100 from William Larkin Moore's site.



It's a 28 ga., too. Only $7500.
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Old February 4, 2008, 02:00 PM   #24
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i would love to see a geo race against a lambo...they both get you somewhere but its how you want to travel there. Sure, you can hit stuff with an old 870...that does not put it on par with a nice SxS
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Old February 4, 2008, 05:34 PM   #25
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I'm not going to say you have to spend over $1,000 for a competition shotgun - but I do and there are reasons to do it / or reasons I can justify doing it.

A gun like a Browning XS Skeet over under retails at about $ 2,500 - but its a very stong and reliable gun / and its very versatile with a lot of built in adjustment ( adjustable comb, length of pull, etc ). I have Browning XS Skeet models that have gone thru 30,000 rounds a year - for several years - and never given me a bit of trouble. You won't be able to put 200,000 rounds thru a pump or semi-auto for that matter without major rebuilds.

Shotguns don't come in one size fits all - many of us need an adjustment at the comb or the heel or both - and without that, the gun will not shoot where we look. You can make a non-adjustable comb gun fit with stick on pads, etc - but an adjustable comb / recoil pad is a better way to do it.
Most field guns are about 7 or 7 1/2 lbs - and if you shoot 50 or 75 boxes a month, going to a heavier gun, significantly reduces recoil. Personally I like a 10lb gun for shooting Trap ( and a 32" barrel on an over under like the Browning XT-Trap or a 34" barrel on a Browning BT-99 ). You can't buy either one of those guns, even used, under $2,000 in decent shape.

I do like the Benelli Super Sport semi-auto as a very versatile gun - lots of adjustability - and at $ 1500 its a lot of gun for the money. But its a single barrel - and I prefer an over under so I can select different chokes for each barrel in sporting clays or on Continental Trap where I can shoot 2 shells. You can compensate for choke by selecting shells with different loads in them - but its easy to forget which shell has 1 1/8 oz of 7 1/2s at 1300 fps vs a 1 oz load at 1225 fps vs 1 oz of 9's ...

If a standard "field" gun dimension really fits you, your fortunate - and if you like shooting a 7 1/2 lb gun for skeet, sporting clays or trap - go ahead and have a good time with it. But don't automatically assume that guys that want to spend some money on a dedicated Trap gun - or a dedicated Skeet gun - either can't shoot, or don't know what they're doing - most of them do just fine. Its pretty rare that I see many rounds of 25 straight in Skeet or 16 yard Trap shot with anything except a well fitted over under. Most competitive Trap and Skeet shooters, not the elite level of shooters, just average club competitive shooters - average from 95 - 100 out of 100 targets. But if you want to shoot a pump gun in my Skeet or Trap squad, you're welcome to shoot whatever you want - I will think no less of you as a competitor but I'll be happy to shoot whatever style or type of gun I want regardless of whether you think its a waste of my money or not ( it is my money after all ). Who wins - who knows - and who cares - as long as everyone is safe and you shoot within the rules, we will have no problems. Come out an join us at Skeet, Trap and Sporting clays with whatever shotgun you have.
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