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Old February 2, 2008, 05:55 AM   #1
Lloyd Smale
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I think ive been ripped off

I think ive been ripped off for the first time on the internet. I bought a marlin cowboy to have customize and a guy on the castbullet forum (not here)RvPilot wanted an original stock as he had put a pad on his and wanted to trade. I sent him my stock over a month ago and after a week he emailed me and said that he didnt like it. The deal we made was that he was going to send whichever stock he didnt like to Clements as hes building my gun. Now he doesnt answer emails or pms. Hes been logged on to the cast bullet site at least twice in the last couple days. He logs on quickly and leaves. Others have tried to pm him too and he wont respond. Hes even got his own website http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=28814066 and ive left messages there too and no replys. I guess theres actually people out there that would risk there name for a 150 dollar stock!!!!
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Old February 2, 2008, 10:01 AM   #2
Tom2
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Well if you feel disappointed at not being ripped off online before, join ebay and you can lose alot of money and stuff. It is like buying in the blind, sometimes. Then gunbroker has lots of guns with poor dark fuzzy pictures that someone wants you to send them lots of money for. So why would he risk his online identity for 150$ stock, because he can change it any time. Good luck with that but I suspect you have sent your stock out into a black hole. Maybe you can contact his local PD online and make a fraud complaint but it would cost you in time and money as much as a new stock to even try to get it back, I suspect. So it is an expensive lesson. I have a few of those too.
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Old February 2, 2008, 10:12 AM   #3
Creature
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I have learned the "buyer beware" lesson several times myself. I have seen people risk their name for a lot less.
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Old February 2, 2008, 10:37 AM   #4
Hawg
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I guess I've been lucky. I've bought quite a few guns online, some of them didn't even see a pic of. Haven't been burned yet.
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Old February 2, 2008, 11:21 AM   #5
Alleykat
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Contact the authorities in his home town and file a complaint. That's about all you can do, reasonably, in an out-of-state transaction/ripoff.
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Old February 2, 2008, 11:50 AM   #6
WIL TERRY
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If You Sent It Via The Usps You Have Him Under Mail Fraud.

The USPS has no sense of humor about such things atall. They are mighty nasty folks to have on your tail as their success insures an all expense paid vacation at the Graybar Hotel in Leavenworth Kansas. Sic the feds on him !!!
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Old February 2, 2008, 11:59 AM   #7
UniversalFrost
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USPS money order or credit card transaction only. Avoid paypal because they have no guarantee that you will get your money refunded and if they find out it was a firearms related purchase you will have your account locked and never get your money back.

With gunbroker, auctionarms or gunsamerica and other internet gun sites, I ask for tons of photos and if they can't or are unwilling then I pass on the deal. When I do purchase gun I only send USPS moneyorder or a credit card. With USPS money orders you can track it and the person that cashes it at the post office must provide proof of identity. If they take your money and run you have their address to give to the police and it is wire fraud, and several other federal offenses that will have not only the local PD and post office on his tail, but you can file a complaint with the FBI and treasury (had to do this once on a shiloh sharps custom grade rifle that the guy grossly exagerated and submitted false photos. Got the money back after the local FBI folks and ATF made a few visits to him.

With a CC you need to watch out for what CC vendor you have. Citi is suddenly anti gun and will close your accounts and put a hold on your funds (they almost ran CDNN out of business). But when a gun is either not received or grossly mis represented then you can file a claim with the CC company and the recipients PD.

Now you only have so many days to file claims with a CC company or the post office, so know your regulations before completing the deal.

Gunbroker has a good buyers section that details all the do's and don'ts of firearms purchases online and also a shipping directory.

ONe thing I hate is an FFL or non-FFL that likes to make up regulations. I recently won a really nice springfield 03A3 on gunbroker and the guy (non FFL) said that he could only ship UPS or fedex and wanted to ship only to a 01 FFL (I have a 03 C&R FFL). After I sent him the gunbroker info on the ATF rules and sent him the BATF website links and regs and showed that the gun was in fact on the C&R list (you can download the C&R catalog from ATF) he still would not budge. He even said that he spoke with the local BATF and they said he was right. I politely asked him for their number and he gave me the run around and never gave me a number or the agent he spoke with. AFter this call I told him I would not be following through with the order and instead filing a complaint with gunbroker. Well the deal finally went though and he sent the gun USPS (with tracking) and accepted my C&R FFL.

Know the regs (BATF and financial) before selling or buying online!!!!! That way you won't get burned or look like a dumbass.

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Old February 2, 2008, 05:37 PM   #8
Shane Tuttle
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Quote:
I guess theres actually people out there that would risk there name for a 150 dollar stock!!!!
Well, there's actually people out there that risk their name for a die set "worth" $20, too.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I can officially tell you that I feel your pain. Well, at least to a lesser extent monetarily...
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Old February 2, 2008, 07:13 PM   #9
Al Norris
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I would think this thread is a candidate for Retails Deals and Feedback.

Off we go....
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Old February 16, 2008, 12:14 AM   #10
freakshow10mm
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That sucks Lloyd. Could 45nut on CB help with anything? IP address tracking?
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Old February 16, 2008, 02:14 AM   #11
Jim Dandy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UniversalFrost
With USPS money orders you can track it and the person that cashes it at the post office must provide proof of identity. If they take your money and run you have their address to give to the police and it is wire fraud, and several other federal offenses that will have not only the local PD and post office on his tail, but you can file a complaint with the FBI and treasury (had to do this once on a shiloh sharps custom grade rifle that the guy grossly exagerated and submitted false photos. Got the money back after the local FBI folks and ATF made a few visits to him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIL TERRY
The USPS has no sense of humor about such things atall. They are mighty nasty folks to have on your tail as their success insures an all expense paid vacation at the Graybar Hotel in Leavenworth Kansas. Sic the feds on him !!!
Wrong. This is one of the biggest BS MYTHS that keeps getting spread by people who don't know any better. The USPS won't do a THING for you. NOTHING. You can file a complaint with postal inspectors and that'll be the end of that. Period. There's not going to be any "no knock" raid, no one's going to jail, and the "feds" aren't going to devote a single resource to chasing down some deadbeat con artist for a couple of hundred dollars. That's called reality. This is a trivial, civil property matter to them.

If this individual is active on various internet message boards, you can apply peer pressure. (Though he may not care.) As far as all of this high-minded nonsense goes about calling the local authorities, no police agency is going to devote a single resource to recovering property in what is essentially a civil matter.

The closest thing to any type of criminal case that can be built against someone in a situation like this is through the local county/district/commonwealth attorney's office. Most states allow an individual who has been duped/conned or whatever to file misdemeanor embezzlement charges against the party who has aggrieved them.

Also take note of the ISP from which this individual made contact with you. If he did it from work, there's a good chance his employer -- specifically HR -- will be quite interested in hearing about his shenanigans.
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Old February 16, 2008, 12:20 PM   #12
74_sharps
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Somethings that may help you are to see what his home states laws are about this sort of thing. The A.G's. office can help there. I would also contact the mods/ owners of the sites where you know him to be and let them know. Some of those folks frown on rip offs and will contact the person and/or delete his account. I know that there have been those that have gone to and are still in prison for doing the rip off through the mail. You just need to find the person at the postmaster's office that wants to do what they're hired for.
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Old February 16, 2008, 05:00 PM   #13
poe2
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Alas...Jim Dandy is correct. How well I know!
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Old February 16, 2008, 09:58 PM   #14
Jim Dandy
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Wrong -- Again

Quote:
Originally Posted by 74 sharps
I know that there have been those that have gone to and are still in prison for doing the rip off through the mail. You just need to find the person at the postmaster's office that wants to do what they're hired for.
You know of "those that have gone to and are still in prison for doing the rip off through the mail?" Really? Let's see some names, dates, and case histories on this. I would love to read about something as incredibly fascinating as that.

You don't seem to have a good grasp of this subject or the legal tactics you're promoting. (And it doesn't have SQUAT to do with a "need to find the person at the postmaster's office that wants to do what they're hired for" either.)

The U.S. DoJ and USPS must prove that there was an intent to defraud the public -- not a single individual -- and that claims of goods or services were intentionally misrepresented. No one is going to run right out and secure an indictment based on a single incident or the claims of a single individual. Period. Doesn't happen and it never did.

You have about as much chance of getting the manager of Sears arrested the next time you buy a product from them that fails and can't be returned.

The alleged perpetrator can very easily claim that you and him have an arrangement that lets him off the hook. His word against yours.

This is an EXTREMELY LOW PRIORITY "crime" for law enforcement and prosecutorial agencies. Take a good look at the U.S. Postal Inspection Service's -- not the "postmaster's office" -- and note the postal crimes they're investigating: http://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/?f...talinspectors/. Parcel bombs, carrier robberies, station robberies, shipment of narcotics, etc.
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